8 Way Paint Sealant Test

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David,



By no means am I going to question your authority in banning anyone, I would simply like to point out that Todd was merely attempting to rid this forum from an apparent spammer. This so called member's FIRST post was glorifying a product that you and I both know to be better suited for Billy Mays infomercials at 3:45 in the morning. I consider this site very important to the world of detailing, and it's reputation and dignity need to be upheld. Who better to do so than seasoned veterans who know a duck when they see it. I understand it is debatable where the before mentioned "member" was going with his introduction to the site, but I think we both know. I hope you realize how counter productive the new "member" is in every facet of our industry. If what he says is true, he comes into contact with 30 people a day multiplied by 300 days by fifteen years, and you know what he is doing to them. He's making it much harder for the likes of us to bring the real world of detailing to the uninformed customer. People like this represent everything that is wrong in this industry and should be publicly called out much more severe than this one was. Todd is a very devoted and passionate detailer that should be viewed as an asset to this forum for his love of detailing, not high volume of six figure vehicles he services on a daily basis.



I tried to send you a pm but your box is full.
 
VaSuperShine said:
David,



By no means am I going to question your authority in banning anyone, I would simply like to point out that Todd was merely attempting to rid this forum from an apparent spammer. This so called member's FIRST post was glorifying a product that you and I both know to be better suited for Billy Mays infomercials at 3:45 in the morning. I consider this site very important to the world of detailing, and it's reputation and dignity need to be upheld. Who better to do so than seasoned veterans who know a duck when they see it. I understand it is debatable where the before mentioned "member" was going with his introduction to the site, but I think we both know. I hope you realize how counter productive the new "member" is in every facet of our industry. If what he says is true, he comes into contact with 30 people a day multiplied by 300 days by fifteen years, and you know what he is doing to them. He's making it much harder for the likes of us to bring the real world of detailing to the uninformed customer. People like this represent everything that is wrong in this industry and should be publicly called out much more severe than this one was. Todd is a very devoted and passionate detailer that should be viewed as an asset to this forum for his love of detailing, not high volume of six figure vehicles he services on a daily basis.



I tried to send you a pm but your box is full.
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I understand. However, it is the job of the forum Moderators to rid the community of spammers, shills and such. I received a number of spam reports from folks who believed there was wrong doing in this thread. As a result, I did an hour of research on Mr. French to see if I could find a hard connection to the product. The only connection is that he admits to applying it for his customers. This in itself is enough for me to nail it as a commerical post, which is not allowed. Still, this in no way gives Todd permission to bash members... THAT'S MY JOB! :woohoo: Plus, it's not the first time I have noticed this kind of lanugage from Todd. IMHO, it is not in the Autopia spirit and not what most members want to see on this site. We're here to learn and share. If Mr. French continues to push his position on R-2000 while maintaining a commercial interest, the rules will be applied swiftly.
 
Thanks for the feedback David!



Todd did need to be grounded, I told him I want him to think about what he did for a month anyways, whether you banned him for thirty days or not.



I'm glad you didn't ban him for good, I think he'll stick to the facts from now on.
 
The facts could be, that the r2000 guy owns a 4-6 bay shop. 2 guys 2 cars a day, if those are new car dealer prep then how can you fault him for making money and doing good work. I don't mean to be rude VASuper, but you are also jumping to conclusions. Everyone here who does this for a living tells people what they use for sealant. He has done the same. Do you have specific knowledge that r-2000 lasts any less than zaino? Yes r-2000 is a warranty product, a warranty is simpler way of saying maintenance contract. so he gets 1000 Dollars up front to maintain a car for 2-3 years. Most cars are traded in at 2-3 years. Most here charge less than 200 a detail. so he could still charge 250 and be ahead of the game.



Shrug.
 
I too am appreciative of your efforts for this test. Look forward to your comments in the following months.
 
gldetail said:
Zonyl is the next generation Teflon. We've been using R2000 in our shops for over 15 years with great success. Customers rave about the finish and how their vehicles look year after year. We apply to 30 vehicles per day, 300 day's a year but I'm no expert like the rest of you guy's.
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Zonyl is nothing like Teflon, it's added to the product to improve the evenness of the coating. It is a popular ingredient in emulsion and oil based paints as it makes liquids easier to spread out in a uniform layer. It will add nothing to the durability of the product, but because a product can be labelled as containing 'Duponts Zonyl', it gets the same kind of reaction as something containing 'Duponts Teflon'
 
David Fermani said:
Thanks for clarifying this. I know you know what you're talking about. :2thumbs: I'd appreciate any more input on the test and/or judging the results you'd be willing to offer.
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Thanks David, any help you need just let me know, although I would have to say you seem to be doing just fine on your own
 
FYI – after gldetail made their original post I was somewhat perplexed. Their short screen name + location made me question if it was a business I’ve followed for several years and who I’ve had extensive dealings with while I owned & operated my detailing business in Michigan. After PMing gldetail, Steve French replied back confirming to me that he is co-owner of Great Lakes Detailing. Although I’ve never met Steve, I know of him and that he is associated with a unit of a very large corporation (Great Lakes Companies) that actually is involved in several aspects of dealer services ranging from finance, insurance, warranty, chemical, sales training as well as reconditioning, detailing & protection; mostly at the dealer level. I can testify that they are one of, if not the, largest vehicle reconditioning & protection application centers in the country. I’ve toured & trained at their facilities several times and can vouch that they have one of the nicest, most state of the art & well run shops I’ve ever seen (I’ve seen quite a few!). They also test various chemicals (waxes/cleaners/protectants) for several chemical manufacturers in addition to producing multi-million’s in detailing and protection revenues annually. Although their main focus is on the wholesale dealership level, they also do a large amount of volume with retail clients too. I guarantee that if anyone on this forum toured their facility, they would surely be impressed and envy their 1st class operation. Great Lakes Detailing does not sell any chemicals on a wholesale or retail level and is in no way (from my experience and in reading their posts here) selling a product or benefiting in any way posting here(spamming). The product in question here (R-2000) is *mostly* sold to dealerships & application centers throughout the world and in the case with Great Lakes Detailing, they do not sell it. I actually had to beg for a sample of R-2000 for months from my connection at Great Lakes Chemicals and finally got some to test out. I really think that members of Autopia can benefit from Steve’s professional input as well as his vast background and experience in both reconditioning and protection products. I can and am willing to personally vouch for his integrity as a well respected detail operator as well as his knowledge in detailing itself. He is merely expressing his opinion on a product just like many of us do on a regular basis here. He does (correct me if I am wrong) offer a 5 year warranty on most of their sealants/protectants, BUT with annual reapplications that religiously get renewed.



One of the reasons for doing this test is to verify each product’s longevity. Please note that I have a mixture of products that are discussed on this forum as well as products that aren’t. I (along with most of you) would like to see how some of our products stack up against some of the “smoke and mirrorâ€� / “snake oilâ€� products that have developed a bad reputation in the enthusiast’s mind. I’m tying to do a legitimate test to see which product really holds their ground and could possibly earn the respect of some the non-believers (if such prevails). In addition, the other reason for doing this test is to explore the desire I have for actually entering the application center market in the near future. The results of this test will have a direct influence on which product I choose to use. If I’m going to offer a product and stand by its so-called claims, I want to be sure for myself. Let the testing continue……….
 
David, so many things I'd like to say could get me banned, pm me for my phone number so that i can talk to you in person.
 
DavidB said:
What I get from this post is that YOU are a member basher. This is way out of line and won't be tollerated. If you have factual knowledge you are welcome to present it as so. You are not welcome to bash people.



30 Day Time Out!
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Wow, just read the last 2 pages of this thread and I have to agree with David Fermani. My only concern is that if this R2000 product is better than what's available to us - then what do we do? Unless I'm missing something - gldetail uses the product, but they don't sell it and I don't see how they are any different from any other detailer running a biz and also posting here. I also feel DavidB's actions were fair and just.
 
......all of this drama is well and good but I just read three pages and not one word about any early observations or results of the test. Just curious as to your thoughts and observations as time progresses and could care less about the other stuff
 
David Fermani said:
When I went into my local Malco store, I told them about my test and they offered a sample of their strongest sealant. It's the same product that dealers/shops apply and is warrantee by Malco. He poured the sample out of a gallon container & I didn't catch the name. I can get it for you if you'd like or send you a sample.
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The name is Malco Paint Sealant, i have a gallon of it, it's a good sealant so i don't use it anymore.
 
David Fermani said:
Great Lakes Detailing does not sell any chemicals on a wholesale or retail level and is in no way (from my experience and in reading their posts here) selling a product or benefiting in any way posting here(spamming….
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But, It looks like they sell the product indirectly, as they apply it to the car, hence the warranty and sealant service. They may not sell you a bottle of sealant, they sell you an application, a service. Therefore its a commercial post.
 
NSXTASY said:
But, It looks like they sell the product indirectly, as they apply it to the car, hence the warranty and sealant service. They may not sell you a bottle of sealant, they sell you an application, a service. Therefore its a commercial post.
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That's a stretch. By your reasoning, anytime someone does a professional detail and mentions a product they used by name, they're "selling the product indirectly".



Are we really offended this easily? I hope not.
 
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