Relabeling Question-Safe to ask?

[JaredPointer]

Well, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. All anybody has to do is look at CG's web site and compare their product to the Keebler Elves version and duh - sure looks like the same, oh really? ya think! Hey, they sell 16 oz versions, buy some and then compare.



Me? I use Menzerna for polishes, sealant - Blackfire, and my cleaner chem's are all rebranded Majestic Solutions stuff, why - they're local, cheap, work great and I like the customer service I get. Will I try other stuff? Not till this economy picks up!

Maybe some of those listed products are re-labeled. I'm just saying it is not fair to the vendors to promote that they are "just relabeled" bulk products poured into a 16 ounce bottle. Unless you have some sort of proof, then your claim has no substantiation.



FWIW, I don't agree that it is fair to the consumer to push a product as if you are the designer, chemist, and mixer when in fact you are just buying a bulk product an putting it in 16 ounce bottles. However, that's they way things work in almost every industry. You think Wal-Mart has a Sam's Choice bottling factory somewhere? I seriously doubt it. They're not openly admitting that Sam's Choice is relabeled bulk cola either.



Find what you like and use that. I think there's plenty of information between the various detailing boards to determine what works well and what doesn't without having to keep bringing up this old, dead horse. I really don't now how this topic keeps coming up every so often, then again I realize that this is the internet and nothing surprises me.

 

[JaredPointer]

That's about as much proof as you're going to get. Check out CGs Buttery Wet Wax on their site. Read the description, the banana scent, etc. Then go to InstaFinish's site and read their description of a product called Buttery Wet Wax. Same description, same scent, etc. It's been stated several times here that Warner/InstaFinish and CG are the same company. Dig around a little and it becomes pretty obvious.

So I should just take some guy from the internet's statement as proof, huh?



Just so you know, I work at NASA and am the head of extraterrestrial communications.....

 

[Setec Astronomy]

That's about as much proof as you're going to get. Check out CGs Buttery Wet Wax on their site. Read the description, the banana scent, etc. Then go to InstaFinish's site and read their description of a product called Buttery Wet Wax. Same description, same scent, etc. It's been stated several times here that Warner/InstaFinish and CG are the same company. Dig around a little and it becomes pretty obvious.

Adam's Buttery Car Wax



And it smells like bananas? Hmm..that almost sounds like the smell of #26 liquid...same color...carnauba...is Meg's made by Chemical Guys???

 

[JaredPointer]

The thing is, it doesnt need to be proven. Its already what people believe to be true.

Consumer perception is one thing. Spreading unfounded information that may or may not be true about the way someone else makes their living is something totally different.



And just so the wrong idea doesn't get out - I'm not really defending the vendors who do relabel. Through my own use of products I believe I have determined who sells specific products that I can get in bulk at CG's for a lot less. The products work the same, smell the same, and accomplish the same end result. So I use the stuff from CG's that I get on the cheap.

 

[snowskate]

I think the worst that could happen is you buy a product to do a certain job, you aren't 100% happy so you buy another product to try again and it turns out to be the same thing.



Whether you pay a couple of extra bucks compared to the next person, not so important. But buying the same thing twice when you didn't want to isn't good.

These are totally my sentiments as well.

You think Wal-Mart has a Sam's Choice bottling factory somewhere? I seriously doubt it. They're not openly admitting that Sam's Choice is relabeled bulk cola either.



Find what you like and use that. I think there's plenty of information between the various detailing boards to determine what works well and what doesn't without having to keep bringing up this old, dead horse. I really don't now how this topic keeps coming up every so often, then again I realize that this is the internet and nothing surprises me.

I can't agree that just because other industries "do this all the time" makes it right.

I'd prefer not to be deceived, or "dumb and happy" or "dumb and dumb".

I've been reading on this site for a couple years and this is the first time I've come across this "dead horse". I mean, if this topic is a dead horse then 90% of autopia is a dead horse. We are running out of horses. You can also choose to not participate in this conversation if you think it's already come up.



Detailing is a specific case for relabeling. The pros and weekend warriors demand to know exactly what is in the product they are using. Relabeled cola, non dairy creamer, etc just aren't things that people take as seriously as we do our detailing products. This deception is very real because for me, after years of reading, the truth has proven to be very few and far between. If that's proof that relabeling in detailing really very rarely happens, then great I'll have to change my line of thinking.

 

[JaredPointer]

These are totally my sentiments as well.











I can't agree that just because other industries "do this all the time" makes it right.

I'd prefer not to be deceived, or "dumb and happy" or "dumb and dumb".

I've been reading on this site for a couple years and this is the first time I've come across this "dead horse". I mean, if this topic is a dead horse then 90% of autopia is a dead horse. We are running out of horses. You can also choose to not participate in this conversation if you think it's already come up.



Detailing is a specific case for relabeling. The pros and weekend warriors demand to know exactly what is in the product they are using. Relabeled cola, non dairy creamer, etc just aren't things that people take as seriously as we do our detailing products. This deception is very real because for me, after years of reading, the truth has proven to be very few and far between. If that's proof that relabeling in detailing really very rarely happens, then great I'll have to change my line of thinking.

Maybe you missed the part of my earlier post where I said I did not think it was fair to the consumer?



I don't think detailing products is any different than any other consumer good. It might be a lot smaller, but core economics and business practices aren't any different because it's something you use to polish a vehicle.



As far as your dead horse comment goes - yeah, a lot of the same ole whargarbl comes up on this site (as well as others). If this is the first time you've ever read about relabeling on this site, you've missed some long, drawn out threads with lots of peeing constest qualities.

 

[mikenap]

How did this get this far? My original question was if InstaFinish and CG were the same company, not if they were relabels. That was answered a long time ago. Everyone knows relabeling goes on, and perhaps I should have titled my thread differently, but this arguing of relabels good or bad is not what I intended. I just noticed some odd coincidence in wording on the sites.



Look at this:



PRIVATE LABEL AUTO CARE PRODUCTS - PRIVATE LABEL CAR WAX, POLISH, CAR WASH, AUTO CARE



Start reading at Ready to get Started... and then compare it to this:



Insta Finish



That's where this came from. Pretty clear to me they are the same company.



BTW Setec, I have no knowledge of Meg's 26, but at least they aren't calling it Meguiar's Buttery Wet Wax! :chuckle:

 

[Setec Astronomy]

If this is the first time you've ever read about relabeling on this site, you've missed some long, drawn out threads with lots of peeing constest qualities.

Not to mention some banning!

BTW Setec, I have no knowledge of Meg's 26, but at least they aren't calling it Meguiar's Buttery Wet Wax! :chuckle:

You do realize I was joking...if you get paranoid about this stuff you'll wind up at town hall meetings yelling at esteemed senators about how your constitutional right to know the mfr. of your wax is being violated...The Buttery Wet Wax is the product that blew the doors off the whole CG thing in the beginning. As has been noted, it was CG's who effectively outed their customers by starting their own website and selling products that in that extreme case had the same name. It would be kind of funny tho, to find out that BWW comes from Meg's and is actually rebottled #26 which they started making in the mid-80's.



Disclaimer: The above is satire and is not intended to be taken seriously. So you Meg's lawyers can keep your emails to yourself!

 

[BobD]

I thought Insta was P&B myself.

 

[mikenap]

:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:



Setec, I figured you were kidding. For all those reading, this whole thread has been for entertainment purposes only. The opinions stated herein do not reflect those of the OP. In other words, please don't ban me! Everyone, back to what you were doing before I dug up this horse just to give it another kick!



BTW what is P&B? Never heard of that brand.

 

[BobD]

:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:



Setec, I figured you were kidding. For all those reading, this whole thread has been for entertainment purposes only. The opinions stated herein do not reflect those of the OP. In other words, please don't ban me! Everyone, back to what you were doing before I dug up this horse just to give it another kick!



BTW what is P&B? Never heard of that brand.

Exactly, many haven't. There are a lot of custom blenders out there that nobody's ever heard of.

 

[snowskate]

Everyone, back to what you were doing

:argue

No one can prove any of those mentioned companies buy a 55 gallon drum and pour it directly into 16 ounce bottle, and until they can do that, it's definitely not fair to companies to state as a fact that's what they do.

I'm just saying it is not fair to the vendors to promote that they are "just relabeled" bulk products poured into a 16 ounce bottle.

FWIW, I don't agree that it is fair to the consumer to push a product as if you are the designer, chemist, and mixer when in fact you are just buying a bulk product an putting it in 16 ounce bottles.

Consumer perception is one thing. Spreading unfounded information that may or may not be true about the way someone else makes their living is something totally different.



And just so the wrong idea doesn't get out - I'm not really defending the vendors who do relabel. Through my own use of products I believe I have determined who sells specific products that I can get in bulk at CG's for a lot less. The products work the same, smell the same, and accomplish the same end result. So I use the stuff from CG's that I get on the cheap.

It seems like your 3 and 3 so far. So where exactly DO you stand?

Maybe you missed the part of my earlier post where I said I did not think it was fair to the consumer?

As far as your dead horse comment goes - yeah, a lot of the same ole whargarbl comes up on this site (as well as others). If this is the first time you've ever read about relabeling on this site, you've missed some long, drawn out threads with lots of peeing constest qualities.

Well, I can't read every post. :nixweiss

 

[snowskate]

I did a search and realize it IS a big topic. I'll do some reading up over time to piece the puzzle together.



FWIW: From a poll by DavidB in 2005 before my time.

==============================



Boutique = Rebottled Pro = Rip-off?



Sooner or later, just about everyone in the car care chemical industry calls me, or comes across my desk. That means I learn a lot about who makes what (and who makes what for whom). I'm seeing an alarming trend with small, out-of-no-where brands popping up.



Two weekends ago at the Good-Guys Hot Rod show here in sunny San Diego, I saw a "boutique detailing brand" that was new to me. While the guy running the booth was helping others, I did some snooping around and found a box with his product that had a shipping label. The label was from a chemical manufacturer (let's call them brand X), so I swiftly memorized the name and address.



Today I researched the brand X chemical manufacturer only to discover they market themselves as a "private label chemical manufacturer." With a bit more research, I discovered several brands well known to this community that purchase the majority of their chemicals from brand X.



I did some calling around to my circle of pro detailer friends to ask if they had ever used brand X products. Two of them had/do use brand X, and compared them in quality to Auto Wax Company, a well-known brand for large shops. One of my friends commented that brand X polishes work fast, because they are overly aggressive, but they are "cheap as heck" so a lot of pros like them.



I guess this new discovery of Pro-gone-Boutique got me thinking. Is it okay with you that you might be purchasing products designed for professionals at "boutique prices?" Personally, I'm a little disturbed because it means anyone can bring a brand of car detailing products to market without doing any research or development with a chemist. All you have to do is select from a list of products, and if you buy enough gallons of the stuff, they might even let you change the color and fragrance. Heck, brand X even fills the bottle and slaps a label on for you so you donâ€â„¢t need a filling system.



If you purchased a pint of super-duper swirl remover for $13, but you could have a whole gallon for $19 direct from brand X, would you be upset? I like profit, too, but 400-600% is a bit muchâ€Â¦ isnâ€â„¢t it?



Part of me is saying âہ“â€Â¦ hey, dude, maybe you should join them and profit from the cheap stuff!â€Â�, but the perfectionist side of me says âہ“â€Â¦ no, work hard finding or creating the best products, regardless of cost or the import hassles.â€Â�



Where do you stand?

 

[JaredPointer]

:argue















It seems like your 3 and 3 so far. So where exactly DO you stand?







Well, I can't read every post. :nixweiss

I think I've already explained where I stand, but in summation:



It's not fair to the companies to make unfounded claims when you have no proof. It's not fair to the consumer to have a vendor misstate what it is that they do.



With that said, I would hope everyone here has the common sense to grasp the reality that Poorboy's, Autogeek, Zaino, and other folks don't have a chemical plant in their backyard. And if you buy two similar products that wind up being really similar - that's no one's fault but your own. If you buy two polishes or LSP's with a similar name, appearance and description, what do you expect?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Oh boy, I remember that thread, when DavidB let the genie out of the bottle, or let Pandora out of her box, or something. Lot of frayed tempers and a few bannings...as well as a few complaints from the accused.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

With that said, I would hope everyone here has the common sense to grasp the reality that Poorboy's, Autogeek, Zaino, and other folks don't have a chemical plant in their backyard.

You're dead wrong. There are plenty of people on here that will tell you that Sal does. I was going to drive down there to take pictures but then someone informed me that the address on his website is a Mailboxes Etc./UPS store :nixweiss: , so clearly his chemical plant is in a secret location, perhaps the oft-rumored but never disclosed Zaino Cave!

 

[snowskate]

I think I've already explained where I stand, but in summation:



It's not fair to the companies to make unfounded claims when you have no proof. It's not fair to the consumer to have a vendor misstate what it is that they do.



With that said, I would hope everyone here has the common sense to grasp the reality that Poorboy's, Autogeek, Zaino, and other folks don't have a chemical plant in their backyard.

Agreed.

And if you buy two similar products that wind up being really similar - that's no one's fault but your own. If you buy two polishes or LSP's with a similar name, appearance and description, what do you expect?

Here i don't agree, because even Autopians are unsure in some cases. So someone who isn't a detail enthusiast will most likely be reaching around in the dark for quite some time.



It'll take me a while but I'm on page 3 of 17 in DavidB's poll!!! Sounds like quite a rollercoaster already.

 

[JaredPointer]

You're dead wrong. There are plenty of people on here that will tell you that Sal does. I was going to drive down there to take pictures but then someone informed me that the address on his website is a Mailboxes Etc./UPS store :nixweiss: , so clearly his chemical plant is in a secret location, perhaps the oft-rumored but never disclosed Zaino Cave!

You kill me :lol

 

[David Fermani]

I did a search and realize it IS a big topic. I'll do some reading up over time to piece the puzzle together.



FWIW: From a poll by DavidB in 2005 before my time.

==============================



Boutique = Rebottled Pro = Rip-off?



Sooner or later, just about everyone in the car care chemical industry calls me, or comes across my desk. That means I learn a lot about who makes what (and who makes what for whom). I'm seeing an alarming trend with small, out-of-no-where brands popping up.



Two weekends ago at the Good-Guys Hot Rod show here in sunny San Diego, I saw a "boutique detailing brand" that was new to me. While the guy running the booth was helping others, I did some snooping around and found a box with his product that had a shipping label. The label was from a chemical manufacturer (let's call them brand X), so I swiftly memorized the name and address.



Today I researched the brand X chemical manufacturer only to discover they market themselves as a "private label chemical manufacturer." With a bit more research, I discovered several brands well known to this community that purchase the majority of their chemicals from brand X.



I did some calling around to my circle of pro detailer friends to ask if they had ever used brand X products. Two of them had/do use brand X, and compared them in quality to Auto Wax Company, a well-known brand for large shops. One of my friends commented that brand X polishes work fast, because they are overly aggressive, but they are "cheap as heck" so a lot of pros like them.



I guess this new discovery of Pro-gone-Boutique got me thinking. Is it okay with you that you might be purchasing products designed for professionals at "boutique prices?" Personally, I'm a little disturbed because it means anyone can bring a brand of car detailing products to market without doing any research or development with a chemist. All you have to do is select from a list of products, and if you buy enough gallons of the stuff, they might even let you change the color and fragrance. Heck, brand X even fills the bottle and slaps a label on for you so you donâ€â„¢t need a filling system.



If you purchased a pint of super-duper swirl remover for $13, but you could have a whole gallon for $19 direct from brand X, would you be upset? I like profit, too, but 400-600% is a bit muchâ€Â¦ isnâ€â„¢t it?



Part of me is saying âہ“â€Â¦ hey, dude, maybe you should join them and profit from the cheap stuff!â€Â�, but the perfectionist side of me says âہ“â€Â¦ no, work hard finding or creating the best products, regardless of cost or the import hassles.â€Â�



Where do you stand?

Epic thread that everyone should read atleast once:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia-news-polls-feedback/54389-boutique-rebottled-pro-rip-off.html

 

[Junebug]

I took David's advice and read that whole 17 page thread, realized I had read it earlier, but like a good movie, it kept me interested the second time. OK, I'm on vacation, weather turned ugly, wife and 1 daughter are shopping, other daughter ain't feeling good so she's chillin and I'm on the PC / thinking about this whole thing.



Here's my take: if you can get the same product from the source at bulk prices, say gallon vs 16 oz sizes, then it doesn't make sense to buy the Uncle Joe's Wonder Wax for a lot more money. However, some guys like DavidB, AG and PAC get the companies like Menzerna to do specific products that may work better or fill a requirement a bit better, would I pay a little more? Sure would!