Relabeling Question-Safe to ask?

i know this has already been hit on, but there are two main things of importance in my eyes:



1. I don't want to pay more for the same product

2. If I do pay more, I want to get more. A fine example is Adam's 110% guarantee.



Selling me a product at a higher cost as long as you can use the "Warner/3M/Megs quality with the added perk of ______ " strategy. People don't mind paying extra for a Caddy over a Chevy because they're getting more standard features and a more luxurious car - nevermind they're both GM's.
 
To put the re-branding of these 'detailing' products and the major auto manufacturers brand market together in the same bucket is one hell of a horrible analogy.
 
I think the worst that could happen is you buy a product to do a certain job, you aren't 100% happy so you buy another product to try again and it turns out to be the same thing.



Whether you pay a couple of extra bucks compared to the next person, not so important. But buying the same thing twice when you didn't want to isn't good.
 
This thread seems to have gone just a bit off track. Originally, I noticed that the InstaFinish website and the CG website had some products with identical names. Navigating through both sites, I stumbled upon their Distributors tab and saw that both sites had identical descriptions of services offered.

This made me think it was one company operating under 2 different names. When I posted here, someone also directed me to the Warner Chemicals site which is all the InstaFinish products at the same prices as the InstaFinish site. No big deal. But I also saw that under that same distributor tab, on 3 different sites now, each site had a different number to call. Obviously the Warner and InstaFinish sites aren't trying to hide anything, all the products are the same with the same prices, names and packaging. But the CG site was selling some things under the CG label which seem identical to the InstaFinish-branded product for less.



In essence, it's not true relabeling by a seperate brand. It's relabeling the same products to be sold by another branch of the same company but at different prices. That is what seems shady to me. I totally understand when Adams or PB buys or relabels product and adjusts prices according to their own overhead and expenses. It's how they stay in business. But CG and Warner/InstaFinish are the same company, from what I can tell and from what people here have posted. So why the disparity in prices? Why should they sell me the same product for 2 different prices depending on which website I happen to see first?



Anyway, all I really wanted was an answer as to whether the companies were one in the same. That question has been answered. Thanks to everyone.
 
MDRX8 said:
No one has listed the relabeled products. So no one can give the facts.



Most likely because no one knows who the relabeled products are with certainty. You're right - no one can give "the facts."
 
blake_jl said:
I think the worst that could happen is you buy a product to do a certain job, you aren't 100% happy so you buy another product to try again and it turns out to be the same thing.



Whether you pay a couple of extra bucks compared to the next person, not so important. But buying the same thing twice when you didn't want to isn't good.



That's probably the most sensible response that's been in this thread.



mikenap said:
This made me think it was one company operating under 2 different names. When I posted here, someone also directed me to the Warner Chemicals site which is all the InstaFinish products at the same prices as the InstaFinish site. No big deal. But I also saw that under that same distributor tab, on 3 different sites now, each site had a different number to call. Obviously the Warner and InstaFinish sites aren't trying to hide anything, all the products are the same with the same prices, names and packaging. But the CG site was selling some things under the CG label which seem identical to the InstaFinish-branded product for less.



In essence, it's not true relabeling by a seperate brand. It's relabeling the same products to be sold by another branch of the same company but at different prices. That is what seems shady to me. I totally understand when Adams or PB buys or relabels product and adjusts prices according to their own overhead and expenses. It's how they stay in business. But CG and Warner/InstaFinish are the same company, from what I can tell and from what people here have posted. So why the disparity in prices? Why should they sell me the same product for 2 different prices depending on which website I happen to see first?



The answer again, is marketing. I've been looking for a new water softener. If you go to Lowe's, they have Whirlpools. If you go to the Whirlpool site to look at their softeners, you wind up at a company variously called Ecodyne or Ecowater Systems, that makes the Whirlpool softeners (the Whirlpool manual says in the back that the product is made by Ecodyne). They also make the Kenmore units for Sears. They also sell them under the Ecowater brand. So I started searching for some reviews and wound up at the Autopia of water treatment, a forum like this one. They suggested that these units, which were also sold under the GE name (and perhaps still are) are cheap junk. (most of the forum members are pro water treatment guys, and suggest the units available only from them). So I think, maybe I can get a softener from Grainger thru work. I find this Northstar brand, it looks pretty good, I go to their website, download the manual, I'm looking through it...and when I get to the exploded parts view...it's clear this is just another Ecodyne unit. But this manual doesn't say anything about Ecodyne...except that the address of the company is the same as Ecodyne.



So there you have one company, making products for many different companies, in some cases disclosing, and in some not. It's just marketing, using different channels, brands, and pitches to appeal to different market segments, and sell the most product.



The piece of the puzzle that throws people off about Chemical Guys, is that people think of them as the source of a lot of the rebranded products, and they may be, for some. But the reality is that CG's is just one of the distribution paths for Warner, and that private label products may come direct from Warner or by way of CG, or perhaps through another intermediary like CG.
 
I think some folks like the notion of helping out the "little guy" instead of putting more money into big corp's coffers, and then to find that the whole elves in a hollow tree thing is just a crock and their secret sauce is just rebranded goo from one of the big chem guys is a bit upsetting. There is a little local company near me that I know rebrands some stuff, but they also blend their own stuff too, I buy some (not all, since I like Menzerna) from them since the prices are as good as the big companies.
 
JuneBug said:
I think some folks like the notion of helping out the "little guy" instead of putting more money into big corp's coffers, and then to find that the whole elves in a hollow tree thing is just a crock and their secret sauce is just rebranded goo from one of the big chem guys is a bit upsetting.



Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that one. There is another thread about "why aren't these guys talked about so much any more?" and I think that's the answer.
 
Thanks Setec, I usually have a least one bight idea a week, ok - I'm done for this week, that's what happens when you hit old age!
 
Still no one has mentioned a rebranded company. I'd surely give the little guy a shot at my business....
 
MDRX8 said:
Still no one has mentioned a rebranded company. I'd surely give the little guy a shot at my business....



Is it because you want to know or just wondering why no one has named the usual suspects in this thread?
 
MDRX8 said:
Still no one has mentioned a rebranded company. I'd surely give the little guy a shot at my business....



Four different rebranded companies are mentioned in this thread. Keep looking! :2thumbs:
 
Bunky said:
Is it because you want to know or just wondering why no one has named the usual suspects in this thread?



Bunky,

For me, it's probably both. I had no idea that Poorboy's products was mentioned in another thread about possibly being rebranded. For instance, Natural Look has been mentioned often regarding interior products with little/no gloss and a "natural" look. If it's cheaper somewhere else, I'd just prefer to get it where it's cheaper.



I'd prefer not to buy products from as many vendors as possible so that's my motivation. Sure, I want what I'm buying to perform but I'd also like to spend as little as possible as I'm sure most people do.



I'm not looking for the "cheapest," I'm looking to get the products I want for the best possible price.



Off the top of my head, I really like Surf City Grime Destroyer. I don't know of anything that's similar so I pay $19.99 for a 2 liter bottle. If someone else sold it for $10.00, I'd prefer to buy it from them.



To each his own, I'm just glad the OP started this thread. Reading bits and pieces here and there and no one really discussing it probably only heightened my curiousity.
 
WOW this thread sure did take off.



I have no knowledge of as far as detailing products go when it comes to labeling, etc. but I do work in the food industry (non dairy creamer) and there are basically 2 major players and most non dairy creamer you see on store shelves with the exception of specialty items are almost all the same and produced in the same factory just different labels for what the customer wants.



Funny thing is while some folks love Wal-Mart and others hate them there brand is one of the highest quality products on the market (as far as non dairy creamer goes).



Yes, even some private label brand names and there generic equivalent have the same powder; not all but some.



So I guess it is no stretch to see this happening anywhere.



Something I would love to see is what would happen if a person was told they had 2 different products for a test yet they were actually the same, chances are they would prefer 1 over the other.
 
mikenap said:
Four different alleged rebranded companies are mentioned in this thread. Keep looking! :2thumbs:





FTFY. No one can prove any of those mentioned companies buy a 55 gallon drum and pour it directly into 16 ounce bottle, and until they can do that, it's definitely not fair to companies to state as a fact that's what they do.
 
Well, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. All anybody has to do is look at CG's web site and compare their product to the Keebler Elves version and duh - sure looks like the same, oh really? ya think! Hey, they sell 16 oz versions, buy some and then compare.



Me? I use Menzerna for polishes, sealant - Blackfire, and my cleaner chem's are all rebranded Majestic Solutions stuff, why - they're local, cheap, work great and I like the customer service I get. Will I try other stuff? Not till this economy picks up!
 
AZ Ferrari Man said:
Adams= Warner Chemical/Chemical guys. I did consulting work for them, and personally picked up product from Warner/chemical guys in Southern California. Adams is in Torrance, Warner/Chemical Guys is quiet close. I signed no confidentiality agreement and feel I am only speaking the truth about products that are overpriced and marketed to be one off family recipes. If they can get a 55 gallon drum of product that makes their cost of a 16oz detail spray $2.40 each, you get the point. Also it is humorous to point out that every time a new product is created by chemical guys, it suddenly is Adam's who invented it and it is the greatest product ever...like their clear bra cleaner polish..Also Paul with chemical guys will out his clients...he says stuff like "well, you didn't here it from me"..or "Adam likes more scent in his spray detailer..."



Paul, if you get him talking, has also slipped and stated "PoorBoys does not want to use different bottles, its weird, cant people tell their natty's is Hardcore XXX" I am writing not to discredit the companies that use private labeling but of the ones on this forum I have heard from the horses mouth where they come from. I do not believe that it is good practice of Paul to do so but it is his business. I know this is one post, but I have no reason to lie, and am only shedding light on a dark shadow of the detail world.



JaredPointer said:
FTFY. No one can prove any of those mentioned companies buy a 55 gallon drum and pour it directly into 16 ounce bottle, and until they can do that, it's definitely not fair to companies to state as a fact that's what they do.



That's about as much proof as you're going to get. Check out CGs Buttery Wet Wax on their site. Read the description, the banana scent, etc. Then go to InstaFinish's site and read their description of a product called Buttery Wet Wax. Same description, same scent, etc. It's been stated several times here that Warner/InstaFinish and CG are the same company. Dig around a little and it becomes pretty obvious.
 
Private Label products are all around us. Costco, BJ's and the like all have larger companies pack under their own label. Some change a color, fragrance or other slight changes to the formula to make it their own.



There is nothing deceptive about this but as a consumer we feel ripped off if we buy 3 "different" products to try at varying price points and they are the same product!



Soda, Cleaning chemicals, Laundry detergent, detailing supplies all have the same issue.



Bottom line-Use what you like, use what performs for you and you will never be upset. I have friends who use more and less expensive detailing products than I do. All our cars look good. If you saw all 3 you could not tell who used P21S 100%, Colonite, EX or Ultima PGP. Some spent more than others and in the end each is happy with their purchase price to aprerance ratio or they would move on. In the scheme of thngs you will not go broke trying items until your satisfied.



I have dozens of 1/2 empty bottles (some spoiled) sitting in my garage. i am chasing the best of what I percieve as best. its my hobby and so I feel like I am taking good care of my care by chasing a swirl free, Black DD. In the end the swirls always win come the winter time.



Reading these forums is the best research you can do. i feel like I know some of these guys from being active. If they tell you a product works-IT DOES. I have not been steered wrong yet.





Relax, enjoy-buy what you want and be happy. if you do it for a living you already know the prep work is the most important and since you do this everyday you will get comfortable with a few go to items. Remember that Labor is the most expensive part of the whoe equation and products that save steps will make you more per hour!



Good Luck and Happy Hunting.
 
JaredPointer said:
FTFY. No one can prove any of those mentioned companies buy a 55 gallon drum and pour it directly into 16 ounce bottle, and until they can do that, it's definitely not fair to companies to state as a fact that's what they do.







The thing is, it doesnt need to be proven. Its already what people believe to be true.



Remember the guy on Detail City a few years back (late 05 or early 06) who was sending around pictures of his visit to Chemical Guys? I think "Antonio Waxer" or one of the other masked men got that shut down instantly.



The person who posted emailed a few members with website links to his photobucket album. It was comedic!





The truth is, if you relable and REFORMULATE, it shouldnt matter where the reseller gets the products from. Scent and color do nothing for product performance.



If you do diligent R&D and IMPROVE on the original forumula, the product should work better and sell itself, right?
 
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