Optimum Car Polish and ShoKar Twins
- Thread starter Anthony O.
- Start date
imported_RIC
New member
eshine writes: "By MSDS Sheets required by these manufactures when importing chemicals into Canada."[is how he knows what is in Zaino and Klasse]
I don't believe that Eshine knows anything more about the chemical makeup/structure of zaino or Klasse than anyone else.
MSDS sheets are extremely vague and are only required to list the general chemical makeup and they leave alot of information out. They are by far no end all with a list of ingredients that anyone can copy. The information they contain varies from company to company. Just go look at the Canadian 3M MSDS sheets available online.
I don't believe that Eshine knows anything more about the chemical makeup/structure of zaino or Klasse than anyone else.
MSDS sheets are extremely vague and are only required to list the general chemical makeup and they leave alot of information out. They are by far no end all with a list of ingredients that anyone can copy. The information they contain varies from company to company. Just go look at the Canadian 3M MSDS sheets available online.
Anthony O.
New member
RIC -
Your issue is exactly?
Thanks,
Anthony
Your issue is exactly?
Thanks,
Anthony
imported_RIC
New member
My issue is that Eshine is being dishonest.
imported_JellyBean
New member
RIC said:
RIC, that's a little bit too blunt and undiplomatic. I believe that RIC is a skeptic (like me) and is getting frustrated at the lack of objective, verifiable information in this thread. As for me, I'm very surprised at the efforts of a couple of respected members in trying to differentiate a product that's no different than many other products out in the market. And that's my two cents. JellyBean out.
How so?
He is basicly saying it has some properties of both Zaino and Klasse.
Reputable people have tested it and have favorable results with it.
You have not even touched it, yet you have the balls to call someone a lier. Eshine has class dude, you dont.
*shrug* whatever. I am looking forward to it, looking forward to competition, which in turn raises the bar.
JellyBean said:
Oh yeah? All I have done is reported how the product has worked for me and all the information about the product and its make-up I have comes from eShine. The sealant is truly different from SG in ease of use. That is an absolute fact. Whether it is better than SG or Zaino in appearance is completely subjective and I haven't claimed it to be better. I have said to me, it has a similar look to Z2 Pro. I don't think neither Anthony or I have made any durability claims, just how SK is holding up for the last 6-7 weeks. How durable it will ultimately be, I don't know and I haven't made any guesses either.
Dang .. first time I read this thread for a while.. ya'll getting kinda heated about products that are not released yet!
Let the thread die until these products hit the market, when everyone can try them. Right now they are the equivalent of vaporware ... a fine blend of pre marketing hype and ego trips!
Can you feel the buzz yet!
PS: My respect for those of who are taking part in this charade is failing rapidily. You know better.
Let the thread die until these products hit the market, when everyone can try them. Right now they are the equivalent of vaporware ... a fine blend of pre marketing hype and ego trips!
Can you feel the buzz yet!
PS: My respect for those of who are taking part in this charade is failing rapidily. You know better.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
RIC said:
I would call it marketing spin. If we villified everyone who did this, we'd have every marketing director and every elected official strung up.
imported_RIC
New member
Exactly what Jellybean said. Yes, I may be undiplomatic and have no class. I don't care about that. I am looking for solid direct truthful information without someone dancing around another's question. When dternst asked his question eshine shyed away from it: yet he has no problem comparing Zaino and Klasse to Shokar as though he knows everything about what's in them.
And then claims he has this knowledge of Zaino and Klasse because he read the Canadian MSDSs of the two products! LMAO!
His claim that he knows what is in Zaino and Klasse is what I have a problem with.
Correct me if I am wrong but Eshine is not a chemist.
And then claims he has this knowledge of Zaino and Klasse because he read the Canadian MSDSs of the two products! LMAO!
His claim that he knows what is in Zaino and Klasse is what I have a problem with.
Correct me if I am wrong but Eshine is not a chemist.
Woob
New member
Calm down. If you don't like how this product is being advertised just forget about this thread and use the products you want. Nothing to worry or argue about! 
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
RedondoV6 said:
Uh oh...did I accidentally make a "lawyer" joke? "What do you call 2000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?"
Eliot Ness
Active member
RIC said:
So, with the explanation coming from a non-chemist, what else did you expect? I haven't seen a manufacturer yet that revealed the exact chemical analysis of what was in their product.
Take a deep breath guys (it's just a wax), and accept this thread for what it's worth, a preview of a soon to be released prep/sealant. I haven't seen Scott or Anthony make any exaggerated claims for SK.
Members here canâ€â„¢t even agree if AIO is an abrasive (there are two different threads with opposing views right now), so how do expect to hash out the Polymer/ Acrylic content of the three products in question with any accuracy in this thread?
I donâ€â„¢t think eShine was being dishonest, but like Mike stated he put a marketing spin on the product using the buzzwords Polymer and Acrylic.
There have been two statements by eShine that stand out to *me*:
".........As far as comparing to other products, I will leave those opinions for the users to decide........."
"...........This does not mean ShoKar is better or worse but it is DIFFERENT....."
The product sounds like it will be released soon and Iâ€â„¢m sure there will be a ton of reviews coming.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Gee how this thread has, uhm, morphed since yesterday :rolleyes
Anthony and Scott (and Eshine too)- Thanks for trying to give me an answer as to the Klasse/ShoKar comparison. I sure didn't mean to stir things up. I'll be interested to learn how it holds up durability-wise.
Well, perhaps you *should* care about that
Anthony and Scott (and Eshine too)- Thanks for trying to give me an answer as to the Klasse/ShoKar comparison. I sure didn't mean to stir things up. I'll be interested to learn how it holds up durability-wise.
RIC said:
Well, perhaps you *should* care about that
It is no secret there are individuals on Autopia which are 100% against Vendors being here. These same individuals attack vendors ever opportunity they get and seem to enjoy doing so. It matters not what the vendor writes, it will be dissected, twisted around, quoted, and then questioned on terminology, grammar, and spelling; much like a trial. These threads get wayyyy of topic and turn and focus on hanging the Vendor on a Cross, this is exactly what these anti-Vendors members want.
Then there are people who feel new products are a threat to their current favorite product(s). Although members can accuse Vendors of being biased, it goes both ways! Many vendors and products are also in-fairly abused because they are NOT discussing YOUR favorite product(s).What makes matters worse is when members defend Vendors and the Non-Vendor supporting members accuse these honest members of being associated with the vendor, they just can't face the fact not everyone shares their view. It is a shame these forums have come to this but this is now reality.
In this threads example, Shokar was claimed to be a Poly-Acrylic formula. It was pointed out there is no such thing. Is this so? Are all these manufactures lying? Was Eshine lied to from the Manufacture who we worked with? Have all these Manufactures Such as Wizards, Race Glaze, Carlack, GroJet, who use Poly-Acrylic all unknowing or lying? Is Klasse lying when they state their Formula is Acrylic but contains no silicones, Teflonâ€â„¢s or POLYMERS?
I do blame myself for one thing, I should have known better to mention any other products (especially the Z word) while answering question of our own. Although we only compared compositions of different products we stated that we have no opinion on which was better than the other, I quote, âہ“ShoKar is Poly-Acrylic where Klasse is only an Acrylic formula and Zaino is a Polymer formula. This does not mean ShoKar is better or worse but it is DIFFERENTâ€Â�.
As far as my Claims. Klasse states it is an Acrylic Formula but contains no Polymers. Zaino States they are Polymers but to not claim they use Acrylics. Terminology can be beaten to death. It doe not make anyone a liar. Even dictionaries have 5-6 Terms for Polymers and Acrylic.
Products should be judged on performance, not terminology. Many companies do not state any type of ingredients yet this also raises eyebrows, people want to know what they are putting on their paints. Some may not want Teflonâ€â„¢s, or silicones. Other Manufactures do state their ingredients and then get accused that these ingredients are only marketing schemes and have no bearing on performance. Manufactures HAVE to make claims. Would you buy a can of wax that simply says âہ“WAXâ€Â� on it?
Our position on this flamewar is to ask once again! If you have any questions regarding ShoKar before its release, please email [email protected] After ShoKar is released we will participate in the âہ“Ask the manufactureâ€Â� section. We have not and will not compare our products performance to any other products, as stated before we will leave that for the users to decide.
Then there are people who feel new products are a threat to their current favorite product(s). Although members can accuse Vendors of being biased, it goes both ways! Many vendors and products are also in-fairly abused because they are NOT discussing YOUR favorite product(s).What makes matters worse is when members defend Vendors and the Non-Vendor supporting members accuse these honest members of being associated with the vendor, they just can't face the fact not everyone shares their view. It is a shame these forums have come to this but this is now reality.
In this threads example, Shokar was claimed to be a Poly-Acrylic formula. It was pointed out there is no such thing. Is this so? Are all these manufactures lying? Was Eshine lied to from the Manufacture who we worked with? Have all these Manufactures Such as Wizards, Race Glaze, Carlack, GroJet, who use Poly-Acrylic all unknowing or lying? Is Klasse lying when they state their Formula is Acrylic but contains no silicones, Teflonâ€â„¢s or POLYMERS?
I do blame myself for one thing, I should have known better to mention any other products (especially the Z word) while answering question of our own. Although we only compared compositions of different products we stated that we have no opinion on which was better than the other, I quote, âہ“ShoKar is Poly-Acrylic where Klasse is only an Acrylic formula and Zaino is a Polymer formula. This does not mean ShoKar is better or worse but it is DIFFERENTâ€Â�.
As far as my Claims. Klasse states it is an Acrylic Formula but contains no Polymers. Zaino States they are Polymers but to not claim they use Acrylics. Terminology can be beaten to death. It doe not make anyone a liar. Even dictionaries have 5-6 Terms for Polymers and Acrylic.
Products should be judged on performance, not terminology. Many companies do not state any type of ingredients yet this also raises eyebrows, people want to know what they are putting on their paints. Some may not want Teflonâ€â„¢s, or silicones. Other Manufactures do state their ingredients and then get accused that these ingredients are only marketing schemes and have no bearing on performance. Manufactures HAVE to make claims. Would you buy a can of wax that simply says âہ“WAXâ€Â� on it?
Our position on this flamewar is to ask once again! If you have any questions regarding ShoKar before its release, please email [email protected] After ShoKar is released we will participate in the âہ“Ask the manufactureâ€Â� section. We have not and will not compare our products performance to any other products, as stated before we will leave that for the users to decide.