Leather Fatliquoring – A Point of Contention!

R

Roger Koh

New member
Quote: Originally Posted by TOGWT

[Fat liquor is not volatile nor migratory, so leather is not going to lose it. However, along with the fat liquor, the other critical factor is moisture. Any leather is going to lose its moisture in a hot car. Although leather seems dry, it is not. Of course too much moisture quickly leads to mould and mildew problems, so soaking it down is not reasonable. Ideally, exposure to humid atmosphere will help balance the effect of over drying on hot days.

Leather is very dynamic with respect to moisture content, meaning moisture comes and goes easily under normal circumstances....] American Leather Chemists Association (ALCA)





Quote: Originally Posted by Accumulator

I'd invested enough time in Roger Koh's posts here that I figured I might as well give his stuff a try. Seems like the fatliquoring part of it is the point of contention, so we'll see how that works out

Well....you might oughta take that up with Roger Koh It could be the leathercare version of the Dawn debate! (by Accumulator)









If leathers can be hydrated, it can be “fatliquored” to as soft as you wish!





Roger Koh

[email protected]
 
i'm not a professorial leather person just an end user of leather products, but going from a stiff hard leather and making it soft and pliable again. i'm a believer that hydrating/ fat liquoring works.
 
Roger Koh- Glad you decided to pick this up. As I noted in that thread.



I really *do* consider this topic somewhat similar to the Dawn Debate, and my view is "OK, whatever, believe what you want, do what you want, stay happy..." Of course it's easy for me to be dismissive of naysayers, I'm not the guy in the leather products business.
 
wascallyrabbit said:
i'm not a professorial leather person just an end user of leather products, but going from a stiff hard leather and making it soft and pliable again. i'm a believer that hydrating/ fat liquoring works.
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Leather Vital does amazing things to dry leather.
 
Scottwax said:
Leather Vital does amazing things to dry leather.
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Yeah, I've had some positive results with both Vital and Leatherique. The thing I don't know about is the long term results.
 
Accumulator said:
Roger Koh- Glad you decided to pick this up. As I noted in that thread.



I really *do* consider this topic somewhat similar to the Dawn Debate, and my view is "OK, whatever, believe what you want, do what you want, stay happy..." Of course it's easy for me to be dismissive of naysayers, I'm not the guy in the leather products business.
Click to expand...





To make this debate credible, the original contributor or author or its official spokesman from the American Leather Chemists Association (ALCA) should be invited by the person that quoted the above statement to participate as well?



Do you think so?





Roger Koh

[email protected]
 
Accumulator said:
Roger Koh- Sure, the more expert input the better. Well, at least theoretically speaking.
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For viewers information the American Leather Chemists Association (ALCA) was founded in 1902. Current President for 2011-2012 is Andreas Rhein.

The 2012 108th Annual Convention at Grandover Resort, Greensboro, NC technical program chair is Steve Gilberg and he can be reached by e-mail at [email protected].



Now it’s up to my worthy opponent of this debate to initiate the contact.



Inviting representatives from this reputable more than a hundred years old association would certainly bring this forum to the next level of professionalism.



It would be so exciting!



Roger Koh

[email protected]
 
I just completed Roger's process on my CTS-V coupe. Although the car only has 8,000 miles on the leather, I do think the leather feels softer after using the fat liquor and the rest of the process. The original owner apparently used nothing on the leather, as he only had the car a brief time. Being in Florida, however, the heat did allow the leather on the driver's door and left Recaro bolsters (legs and shoulders) to become stiff and creased. I'm hoping Roger's process will "relax" the leather enough to smooth everything out.



Mike
 
MSOsr said:
I just completed Roger's process on my CTS-V coupe. Although the car only has 8,000 miles on the leather, I do think the leather feels softer after using the fat liquor and the rest of the process. The original owner apparently used nothing on the leather, as he only had the car a brief time. Being in Florida, however, the heat did allow the leather on the driver's door and left Recaro bolsters (legs and shoulders) to become stiff and crease. I'm hoping Roger's process will "relax" the leather enough to smooth everything out.



Mike
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Quote: Originally Posted by TOGWT

Leather is very dynamic with respect to moisture content, meaning moisture comes and goes easily under normal circumstances....] American Leather Chemists Association (ALCA)



According to the above statement, it would seem that it is not so difficult to bring moisture into the leather structure (corium).



It would be easier for moisture to penetrate through the stitching holes and spread sideways to the entire panel in question. On the finish surfaces, to facilitate a faster rate of moisture penetration through the finishes micro-cracks / micro-crazing phenomena (not visible with the naked eyes) a layer of hydrator reservoir is recommended with tissue paper cover with plastic sheet. This is to ensure that the moisture goes one way into the leather structure.



As long as the leather can be hydrated, that is to say make way or precondition the leather with reduced interfacial tension – fatliquoring can thereafter follow with similar technique as the hydrator to achieve even penetration.



You can be assured that the leather will be soft, supple and strong – without the stiffness or micro tears or split at all the stitching holes.





Quote: Originally Posted by TOGWT

[Although leather seems dry, it is not. Of course too much moisture quickly leads to mould and mildew problems, so soaking it down is not reasonable. Ideally, exposure to humid atmosphere will help balance the effect of over drying on hot days. Leather is very dynamic with respect to moisture content, meaning moisture comes and goes easily under normal circumstances....] American Leather Chemists Association (ALCA)



The optimum moisture content of healthy fat liquored leather averages 14%. The amount is the aggregates of all leather constituents including the fatliquor. It is measurable with a moisture meter. Normally the hydrating would be around 25% to start with before drying to averaging 14% - that will still feel dry but not.



It seems that too much moisture will quickly lead to mould and mildew problems. Well that’s taken care of when you used a pH 3.3 hydrator and not water at pH 7. The acidity itself is a preservative against mould and mildew. Thus it can be left to be hydrated for up to three days at 25% moisture level. That applies to the fatliquor too at pH 5.0.



Show us some pictures if you are fatliquoring it effectively.





Note: If the leather is soft, supple and strong thereafter, yet have creases and not smooth out. This problem may lies at the seat panel cuttings, stitching tensions or constructions.







Roger Koh

[email protected]
 
I used Leatherique on a 140 year old Civil War pistol cartridge box that was cardboard hard. After many applications of the rejuvanator, it is now as soft as new. The leather is 1/8 inch thick.
 
Subscribed. This is interesting info useful to many detailers in different countries who are always interested in proper leather care.
 
Roger Koh said:
For viewers information the American Leather Chemists Association (ALCA) was founded in 1902. Current President for 2011-2012 is Andreas Rhein.

The 2012 108th Annual Convention at Grandover Resort, Greensboro, NC technical program chair is Steve Gilberg and he can be reached by e-mail at [email protected].



Now it’s up to my worthy opponent of this debate to initiate the contact.



Inviting representatives from this reputable more than a hundred years old association would certainly bring this forum to the next level of professionalism.



It would be so exciting!



Roger Koh

[email protected]
Click to expand...



Thanks for bringing this up here Roger. I will reach out to the ALCA as well as USHSLA (United States Hide, Skin, and Leather Association) and a few others to see if they'd like to input on this subject. Could be an interesting discussion.



Roger also posted this question on the ALCA forum here if anyone would like to see:

Leather Chemists: Fat liquor is not volatile nor migratory,
 
Blackthornone said:
I used Leatherique on a 140 year old Civil War pistol cartridge box that was cardboard hard. After many applications of the rejuvanator, it is now as soft as new. The leather is 1/8 inch thick.
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I woulda chickened out on that, having seen too many antique leather goods that got damaged by somebody trying to "help" them. Actually, I *have* chickened out on such stuff,so thanks for posting that it worked out OK. My late father messed up at least one 19th century holster by Lexoling it little too much, so I err on the side of caution (I'll probably just let the next generation of owners deal with any rejuvenation).
 
Accumulator said:
I woulda chickened out on that, having seen too many antique leather goods that got damaged by somebody trying to "help" them. Actually, I *have* chickened out on such stuff,so thanks for posting that it worked out OK. My late father messed up at least one 19th century holster by Lexoling it little too much, so I err on the side of caution (I'll probably just let the next generation of owners deal with any rejuvenation).
Click to expand...

Well, since Leatherique is used by the Smithsonian for their leather, and because of the four star reviews online, I figured I could not go wrong. I used a soft bristled brush to work it in with. I was extremely gentle.

It took over a week of applying and letting it soak in till it was dry, and then repeating, until it basically would absorb no more product. Then I started with the cleaner, though I never really finished with it. It is indeed soft and supple now.
 
Would be nice to finally get a conclusion on all of the leather talk. One concise write-up with a list of leather products that work with science that backs them up.
 
Makes me glad my seats are cloth! Although, I just cleaned the cloth seats of a 1999 4Runner that gave me Popeye forarms by the time I finished. But ya'll know I wouldn't let my stuff get that bad!



The leather thing - I think there's one than 1 way to skin a cow and the "leather" in cars vary a bit in quality and types, so to have 1 guide, would be great, but, it would have to address the various types and more importantly - how to figure out which type you have.
 
JuneBug said:
Makes me glad my seats are cloth! Although, I just cleaned the cloth seats of a 1999 4Runner that gave me Popeye forarms by the time I finished. But ya'll know I wouldn't let my stuff get that bad!



The leather thing - I think there's one than 1 way to skin a cow and the "leather" in cars vary a bit in quality and types, so to have 1 guide, would be great, but, it would have to address the various types and more importantly - how to figure out which type you have.
Click to expand...



http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-...tery;-surface-identification.html#post1451654
 
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