Duragloss FC & Zaino Z6 - Same Product????

[Scottwax]

I think he was referring that Z2pro and Z5pro still look and smell the same as the Z2 and Z5 of old.

Huh? :think: I'm not talking about how they look on the car.



Z5 Pro does not look the same as the Z5 of old. Consistancy isn't the same either. I have both products, they are definitely different.



Oddly enough though, NXT2.0 looks and smells exactly the same as the original version yet my understanding it is a completely different product, not simply a tweaked version of the original. Go figure, right?

 

[Junebug]

This reminds me of asking the wife and kids where to go to eat. Everybody has a different answer - the same for how something looks or works in detailing. Brandon1 is a good friend of mine and we agree on a lot of stuff but it's funny how we have our differences on some products and even how they look on a car. Is DG making Zaino? Is Sal working with (fill in the blank) Who cares? I'll bet that the average detailing looking at a car that was prepped and topped with 2 different LSP's could not tell the difference - as long as the products were sealer-vs sealer or wax vs wax.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I think we are all getting too personal about this topic. If the guy makes the stuff in the gas tank of his car or a buys it from factory in Hong Kong, it seems we are missing the point. For those of you that own a real business, one that you can pay your monthly bills from the revenue generated out of, this would get your blood boiling.

I agree that people misunderstand this. Anyone who has a business knows that you don't do it alone, you depend on vendors/suppliers/"partners" to provide vital services. How many chip fabs are out there (IBM, AMD) that make chips for other people? That doesn't make them IBM or AMD chips or designs.



Just because Sal doesn't have his own factory (if that is even accurate) doesn't mean that he isn't the creator/inventor/etc. of his product line, and responsible for the quality of it.

 

[ron231]

I agree that people misunderstand this. Anyone who has a business knows that you don't do it alone, you depend on vendors/suppliers/"partners" to provide vital services. How many chip fabs are out there (IBM, AMD) that make chips for other people? That doesn't make them IBM or AMD chips or designs.



Just because Sal doesn't have his own factory (if that is even accurate) doesn't mean that he isn't the creator/inventor/etc. of his product line, and responsible for the quality of it.

True, but when I say Sal doesn't make them, I mean that he receives them in gigantic containers and simply puts them into smaller bottles. I bet you that a gallon of z5 costs sal about $10. I do not know who makes his products, but I do know that it is not him nor is it a factory that he owns. If you consider pouring something from a larger bottle into a smaller one and marking up the price to be making a product, then yes, Sal makes his own products .

I'll bet that the average detailing looking at a car that was prepped and topped with 2 different LSP's could not tell the difference - as long as the products were sealer-vs sealer or wax vs wax.

You sir, are correct. The only time I could see a noticeable difference, between two sealants was when I tested NXT vs other sealants. For some reason, NXT (paste) darkens more than any other sealant I own, in fact, it darkens more than any carnauba (ive got a large stash of nubas and sealants mind you) I own, go figure!



It was the only time where when I applied two LSPs, one on each half of the hood of a solid black car, that I actually could see a big difference from 15+ feet away. However, I don't really like to use NXT because it lasts about two weeks IME.



Moral is, its all in the prep :grinno: :waxing:

 

[DETAILKING]

Ron, just curious how you are so sure about who makes Zaino? Even if it is a plant that Sal doesn't own, what is the difference, as long as the products are made to his specifications via his recipe. Did you know that some of the larger breweries in the US make some of the smaller beloved micro-brews? It's called toll processing, and as long as the recipe is that of the end user and the end user controls quality and content, who cares? Perhaps this is a more economical way to go than absorbing the overhead of an entire plant. I don't see how this makes any difference. You are making some pretty hefty claims, I hope, for your sake, you have the proof to back it up.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

True, but when I say Sal doesn't make them, I mean that he receives them in gigantic containers and simply puts them into smaller bottles.

Couldn't he be receiving giant containers custom made to his exact specification? I could design a widget in my basement and send it out somewhere to be manufactured IRL, so why couldn't I take my chemistry set and formulate a car wax in my basement and send the formula out to be manufactured and put into giant containers for me?



I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that just because it comes from the "Zaino factory" (or some other factory) in giant containers to be put into smaller ones doesn't mean it isn't a unique or exclusive product or one created by Sal.



I don't think Sal has a "factory" down there in the strip mall fronting on Rt. 9, BTW, but that doesn't preclude what I said above.

 

[howareb]

Please do not misinterpret the meaning of this thread. This has nothing to do with Sal steering anyone wrong, or trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Sal, from the couple of times that I have dealt with him, is a wonderful guy and a wonderful business man.



However the fact is that there is a pretty decent sized population that sees strong similarities throughout the product line of Zaino and DG that it makes you wonder about the connection. In keeping things in prospective, do Meguiars products have a strong similarity to Mothers? Are their any other brands that you can think of that have such a strong similarity (except of course for the CG relabels)? The coincidence between Zaino and DG is uncanny. Zaino of course is the better of the two products IMO because it is a higher concentration. But could Sal's formulation have been so successful that Duragloss was interested in changing their formulations to closely resemble Sal's? I do not know, but it makes you wonder.

 

[TigerMike]

I am not sure what your conversation with Sal was about regarding DG, but perhaps give him a call to clarify and let us know?

Well, actually, I did just call Sal and we talked for about 2 hours about various things. What I came away with is very important, in that I am 100% convinced that the Zaino company and Duragloss are NOT, I repeat NOT, duplicate or even similar products, nor do they relabel anything for anybody. Similar to what DetailKing has stated, yes, Sal talks to everyone in the industry, Mother's, Meguiar's, and yes even Duragloss, but that doesn't mean he is using their formulas. As a big part of the industry, I'm sure Sal talks to fellow competitors all the time. I needed clarification on the issue with regards to him talking to the DG guys, and to set the record straight, Sal developed his own products, with his own time, money, and chemist. It's actually quite an incredible story with regards to the challenges Sal had to go through to develop his products, but that development really had nothing to do with Duragloss being part of the equation. Yes, he talked with them, just like he talks with nearly all car care companies, and that is where I misunderstood him. I do believe Sal's formulas are completely unique.



I will admit too that I have had a slight axe to grind with Zaino for a couple years now. I used Zaino for roughly 6-7 years and was extremely pleased with it, never could find a real fault. Until recently. I was upset that my ZFX vials dried up, even though Sal offered to replace them. I also felt that ClearSeal didn't perform up to my and Zaino standards, but after discussing my concerns with Sal, I realize that he would have replaced the product, no questions asked, and it was mostly user error on my part, not Sal's. I will probably be buying some new ClearSeal and retrying, as I really really do have high hopes for that product. It could be an incredible time saver for me and the chemistry involved is unmatched. Anyhow, as a consequence of feeling "cheated" by Zaino over these two products (despite neither being Zaino's fault), I have been rather negative concerning Zaino, and unfairly so, for some time. I should have called Sal earlier to resolve these things, but didn't. Which makes you realize, ALWAYS call Sal if you experience any problems using his products. There is one thing about Sal, he definitely cares about his products and his customers, and wants his product to be top notch. So, I do publically appologize to Sal for all the negativity that I unfairly gave Zaino, when the issues were not even his fault. You know as people, sometimes it's tough to blame yourself, so I blamed Sal and Zaino Bros. for my troubles. I admit to saying very unfair and sometimes untrue things just to make him look bad. I have even been guilty of jumping on the "Duragloss is the same as Zaino bandwagon" just to get a jab back, which I feel wrong about and very guilty. I am here to admit my fault, and that I no longer have beef with Sal or Zaino. I suppose a chip on your shoulder can be more hurtful than you imagine.



All the talk about Sal not having a factory, well he definitely does, just that it's not in New Jersey and also not in the Carolinas (for those wondering). For trade secret reasons, yes he does process out of state, and his NJ address is just a UPS store. Sal does value his privacy and trade secrets above all else. He has been though a hell of a lot to protect what he created, with some failures and lots of success. He is now a master, as far as I'm concerned at doing what he does. Most people just don't understand the amount of privacy Sal must maintain to protect his formula. It will make your head spin. Anyhow, I have made the decision to switch back to Zaino products.



Above all else is Sal's customer service. If you ever for one minute doubt Sal's committment to you as a customer or to stand behind his products, give him a call. He is knowledgeable beyond belief (far beyond what any "relabeler" would tell you) and is happy to help. My hat is off to Sal for solving my problems. I do look forward to re-Zainoing my car, because despite that I thought I had found the best in DG, I realize there really is only one ZAINO product. There isn't a DG equivalent to the amount of unique chemisty that goes into the Zaino products, and that's why I going back to Z!!





Hope this helps clear some things!





Best Regards,



Mike

 

[howareb]

Hope this helps clear some things!

Man, What a complete turnaround....... :nervous:. In my case things seem to be a little more puzzling. Are you saying that there is no connection? Why is Zaino the better product? I mean you did a lot of apologizing, but left very unclear evidence as to what changed your mind, so quickly.



I am sure that Sal is glad to have you back.

 

[salty]

Very interesting. Mike i thought you would be one of the last to change your opinion on the topic after your horn locking for the last couple years.

 

[Scottwax]

Ron, just curious how you are so sure about who makes Zaino? Even if it is a plant that Sal doesn't own, what is the difference, as long as the products are made to his specifications via his recipe.

Seems to matter when Poorboy's connection to Chemical Guys is mentioned.



As far as I concerned, if someone tweaks the base formula to their specifications and it gives added value to the product, I have no problem with them charging more. Sort of like a Lingenfelter Corvette. Yeah, starts with the same Corvette that comes down the line at Bowling Green but it definitely has been tweaked to his specifications and is therefore worth the additional price.

 

[TigerMike]

Man, What a complete turnaround....... :nervous:. In my case things seem to be a little more puzzling. Are you saying that there is no connection? Why is Zaino the better product? I mean you did a lot of apologizing, but left very unclear evidence as to what changed your mind, so quickly.



I am sure that Sal is glad to have you back.

No, no connection. Sals talks with every car care business out there, DG is no exception. I have no doubts that his products are his, and have nothing to do with labeling from Duragloss.

 

[poweredbytorque]

So why is it that all of a sudden, DG~=Zaino and now its Zaino>>>DG? I smell something funny...

 

[TigerMike]

Very interesting. Mike i thought you would be one of the last to change your opinion on the topic after your horn locking for the last couple years.

Sometimes you realize you are wrong on a particular subject, and on this one I happended to be very wrong.



Plus, like I said, part of it was also an axe to grind because of my own disappointment, which is through no fault of Sal's. His products are top notch, when used/stored properly!

 

[gmblack3]

Mike, Regardless of your position its good that you called Sal and cleared the air. :bigups

 

[TigerMike]

So why is it that all of a sudden, DG~=Zaino and now its Zaino>>>DG? I smell something funny...

Talk to Sal a couple of hours about the business and you realize how wrong you are, nothing funny about it.



It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and make assumptions, and sometimes you realize how off base you really were. Assuming things with not too many facts often leads to errors.

 

[Scottwax]

With regards to what TigerMike wrote, since I can't tell a difference in the end results between Duragloss and Zaino, I prefer to save my money and use Duragloss when my Zaino stuff runs out.

 

[Scottwax]

Zaino is better simply because of the chemistry behind his products. DG does not use that chemistry, nor is it even remotely the same.

Short of a chemical analysis, exactly how do you know this?

 

[imported_weekendwarrior]

Man, the drama on this thread eclipses the stuff that you see on the Lifetime Network.

 

[TigerMike]

Short of a chemical analysis, exactly how do you know this?

Without disclosing his trade secrets, which I wouldn't expect him to anyway, Sal very clearly explained the difference between the polymer structures he uses and what is more commonly used. Zaino's polymers are not used by anyone else and are unique to his formula. Sure the results may be close between DG and Z, but honestly after his explanation, I think I'll stick with Z now. I think Z will offer a bit better protection, which is what I'm after anyhow...