Duragloss FC & Zaino Z6 - Same Product????
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imported_Detailing Technology
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Since Zaino does not have a factory, rules of elimination would lead us to believe they do not make their own products. It seems the real question is, does Dura-Gloss make the Zaino chemicals or some unknown Tiwanese factory.
I would think a solid way to positively identify the manufacturer of any re-labeled product would be:
Go to the corporate offices and look through their garbage. There is no doubt constant correspondance between them and the mother ship. I'll bet the answer lies there. A bill, a letter, or a receipt. (note to all of you re-labelers, outsource your shredding)
Go to the location that the packages ship to the customers from. Look through their garbage and see who is shipping TO that location.
Another would be to find an angry box packer/unloader at the shipping location and and ask them if they know where the deliveries come from. At least then you can narrow it down to a city and state.
We live in the "I needed it yesterday information era". You can look anybody up on the internet and get their home address, then find out how much they paid for you house and what their property taxes are in less than 12 seconds. If people really want to know, I dont see how this is such a mystery.
As the fictional Gordon Gekko said, "You are either on the inside, or you are outside"
My point being, if anyone really gave enough of a shiiite, and it was hurting someones livelyhood, this would all be exploited. Some lunatic would take a pitcure of himself inside of a dumpster behind Poorboys and Adam's holding a dozen cut up boxes with a Chemical Guys address in Ca on it! Its really that easy. Indesputiable inforamtion.
I would think a solid way to positively identify the manufacturer of any re-labeled product would be:
Go to the corporate offices and look through their garbage. There is no doubt constant correspondance between them and the mother ship. I'll bet the answer lies there. A bill, a letter, or a receipt. (note to all of you re-labelers, outsource your shredding)
Go to the location that the packages ship to the customers from. Look through their garbage and see who is shipping TO that location.
Another would be to find an angry box packer/unloader at the shipping location and and ask them if they know where the deliveries come from. At least then you can narrow it down to a city and state.
We live in the "I needed it yesterday information era". You can look anybody up on the internet and get their home address, then find out how much they paid for you house and what their property taxes are in less than 12 seconds. If people really want to know, I dont see how this is such a mystery.
As the fictional Gordon Gekko said, "You are either on the inside, or you are outside"
My point being, if anyone really gave enough of a shiiite, and it was hurting someones livelyhood, this would all be exploited. Some lunatic would take a pitcure of himself inside of a dumpster behind Poorboys and Adam's holding a dozen cut up boxes with a Chemical Guys address in Ca on it! Its really that easy. Indesputiable inforamtion.
Junebug
JAFO
DG is made down the road a ways from me. Last year we (a small group of local detailers) tried to get DG to send a Rep to a Detail Meet we were having OR let us do a factory tour. They never seemed interested and basically didn't give a sh!t about it. I can understand insurance regulations and all, but hell, even my fudy-dudy electrical company handles customer request better than that.
imported_Detailing Technology
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JuneBug said:
Maybe Dura-Gloos feels they have enough money? Insurance regulations are fictional, you are covered for accidents like that. I know, I insured a 30,000 squre foot building for 25 years. Its just to keep annoying people out and to eliminate the unnecessary risk of a premium hike. Some of the deductables were $25,000. So if you come in and slip, I owe you $25,000 and my insurace co pics up the rest. Then I get a premium hike at next renewal.
That is like the pizzarias around here that dont deliver. It must be nice to have that much dough that you can tell people to "F" themselves all day. A dream I hope to live out!
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
jsatek said:
Wow...I bet those pizzerias won't deliver their linguini with white clam sauce either--what a bummer!
:sign
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
BlackElantraGT said:
Well, here's a Corvette forum link that talks about Sal & Tommy at their Corvette shop in Brooklyn (I thought Tommy was a chemist? :think: ). 1975 Can Am Chevrolet Corvette - Eckler's Wide Body C3 - Vette Magazine
A google search also brought a Tommy Zaino up as a Brooklyn witness to one of the Son of Sam shootings :soscared:
imported_Detailing Technology
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You are in New Jersey, take a drive over to Howell and look through the Zaino garbage for us.
Be the guy that :sign Zaino. Much bigger kill than me.
Sure, he used to measure the eight-balls on a gram scale!
Be the guy that :sign Zaino. Much bigger kill than me.
Setec Astronomy said:
Sure, he used to measure the eight-balls on a gram scale!
imported_Detailing Technology
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Setec Astronomy said:
Sure, he used to measure the eight-balls on a gram scale!
DETAILKING
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Ok Guys, I have been following this post with amusement, but let's try and keep it civil and real. I guess "conspiracy theory's" now a days only need a creative mind and a keyboard! Ha!
I am a chemical engineer by trade, and have worked in many different industries. I can assure you that just because any two products look, smell, and feel similar, there is no indication, proof, or evidence that the ingredients of each are the same nor do they perform the same. Marketing is very big in the chemical industry and a lot of times you see products in similar packaging and labeling. Sometimes this is an indication of private labeling, but other times it's a marketing ploy to mislead the customer......and other times, it can be just plain coincidence. The other day I thought I bought pledge furniture polish in the yellow can, and when I finally got home and looked at it, it turns out I bought a no-name brand that had a similar can and label as the pledge! I can assure you the stuff I had was complete crap, and by no means a re-labeled pledge product!
I've known Sal for about 10 yrs. I use his products and also many others. One thing I have noticed about him is that he takes great pride in his products and really stands behind them. He also is very anal and constantly tweaking them with Beta versions. My opinion, I don't think Sal could sit back and private label his products knowing he wasn't getting any of the credit for them, and also couldn't sit back and sell products that are substandard and geared towards just about the same buyer. It just doesn't make sense......and if something doesn't make sense....it probably isn't true. The History of Zaino is quite a story, if you are interested, give Sal a call sometime and I am sure he wouldn't mind sharing it with you. I think it would also put all of your wondering minds at ease!
I am a chemical engineer by trade, and have worked in many different industries. I can assure you that just because any two products look, smell, and feel similar, there is no indication, proof, or evidence that the ingredients of each are the same nor do they perform the same. Marketing is very big in the chemical industry and a lot of times you see products in similar packaging and labeling. Sometimes this is an indication of private labeling, but other times it's a marketing ploy to mislead the customer......and other times, it can be just plain coincidence. The other day I thought I bought pledge furniture polish in the yellow can, and when I finally got home and looked at it, it turns out I bought a no-name brand that had a similar can and label as the pledge! I can assure you the stuff I had was complete crap, and by no means a re-labeled pledge product!
I've known Sal for about 10 yrs. I use his products and also many others. One thing I have noticed about him is that he takes great pride in his products and really stands behind them. He also is very anal and constantly tweaking them with Beta versions. My opinion, I don't think Sal could sit back and private label his products knowing he wasn't getting any of the credit for them, and also couldn't sit back and sell products that are substandard and geared towards just about the same buyer. It just doesn't make sense......and if something doesn't make sense....it probably isn't true. The History of Zaino is quite a story, if you are interested, give Sal a call sometime and I am sure he wouldn't mind sharing it with you. I think it would also put all of your wondering minds at ease!
I think there are plenty of cases where private labelers get plenty of credit for the products they sell. Danase is one that comes to mind, and there are a host of others, and they all mostly take pride in their offerings and provide excellent service to back them up as well. To me, private labeling of any product doesn't mean you shouldn't take pride in it because it's not your creation.
Also, I don't think any products being discussed in this thread are substandard, by any means. I'd put both Zaino and Duragloss up against any of the best products you care to name on the market, and I guarantee they can hold their own in their own right. I wouldn't feel like I were selling crap, if I sold either line.
In talking with Sal about the Zaino history, has he ever mentioned that long ago, he worked with the DG guys on formulas? I don't remember exactly what was said (long time ago), but I seem to remember him saying something to that effect. Is it unrealistic then, to think that maybe they helped him develop a base formulation that he took and created his own formula tweak? So regardless, the two companies, by his own admission, do have at least some sort of history of dealing with each other. To what extent and how far, I have no clue....
However, one defining difference I see between the two, is that yes, Sal is always updating (in one way or another) his line, whereas as far as I can see or tell DG rarely gets an update, with 105 and AW being the latest in a long time. Also, for the longest time, Sal always seemed to focus on providing completely nonabrasive LSPs which were claimed can layer, whereas many DG offerings (except 111) offer some level of cleaning ability, whether it be strong or very minimal. So maybe Sal had a slightly different vision for his polishes than the DG guys? I don't know...
Also, I don't think any products being discussed in this thread are substandard, by any means. I'd put both Zaino and Duragloss up against any of the best products you care to name on the market, and I guarantee they can hold their own in their own right. I wouldn't feel like I were selling crap, if I sold either line.
In talking with Sal about the Zaino history, has he ever mentioned that long ago, he worked with the DG guys on formulas? I don't remember exactly what was said (long time ago), but I seem to remember him saying something to that effect. Is it unrealistic then, to think that maybe they helped him develop a base formulation that he took and created his own formula tweak? So regardless, the two companies, by his own admission, do have at least some sort of history of dealing with each other. To what extent and how far, I have no clue....
However, one defining difference I see between the two, is that yes, Sal is always updating (in one way or another) his line, whereas as far as I can see or tell DG rarely gets an update, with 105 and AW being the latest in a long time. Also, for the longest time, Sal always seemed to focus on providing completely nonabrasive LSPs which were claimed can layer, whereas many DG offerings (except 111) offer some level of cleaning ability, whether it be strong or very minimal. So maybe Sal had a slightly different vision for his polishes than the DG guys? I don't know...
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
TigerMike said:
Playing devil's advocate, couldn't it have been the other way around? Sal and Tommy came up with the formulas, needed a partner to produce and bottle, and DG worked out a deal to have a "diluted" but similar line?
It's not uncommon for inventors to partner with large companies to "realize" their invention.
:tumbleweeimported_Detailing Technology
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Putting the shoe on the other foot....
I think we are all getting too personal about this topic. If the guy makes the stuff in the gas tank of his car or a buys it from factory in Hong Kong, it seems we are missing the point. For those of you that own a real business, one that you can pay your monthly bills from the revenue generated out of, this would get your blood boiling.
I, essentailly, am a recruiter for the I.T. business. I sell banks people to use, thats it. If people on the street were saying "Justin gets his employees from resumes off of the internet, why do we need him, its a hoax, a scam, I'll go to the internet and get the same people", it would get me insane. I'd also tell those people that they dont have the brains, money, or balls to do it like I do. Of course I get them from the internet, do you think I have five Wall Street Project Managers all earning $300,000 per year sitting in my living room waiting to go to work? I have to go out and find them, and then sell them on the fact that its time to move on and come to work for me for a few months. Its not easy.
So how do you defend yourself as a vendor of the products? Do you come on the forums and go head-to-head with every minimum wage earning sponge jockey in the U.S.A, telling them your products are great and they should get over it? You risk your professional reputation and will end up looking like a fool. Do you take what you have spent your life building and open it up to complete strangers for their personal review and education? Why, this isnt an audit?
Like I have said before. It's car wax guys, no one is selling the cure for cancer. None of these vendors are falsely leading you down a wretched path of destruction and deceit.
I think we are all getting too personal about this topic. If the guy makes the stuff in the gas tank of his car or a buys it from factory in Hong Kong, it seems we are missing the point. For those of you that own a real business, one that you can pay your monthly bills from the revenue generated out of, this would get your blood boiling.
I, essentailly, am a recruiter for the I.T. business. I sell banks people to use, thats it. If people on the street were saying "Justin gets his employees from resumes off of the internet, why do we need him, its a hoax, a scam, I'll go to the internet and get the same people", it would get me insane. I'd also tell those people that they dont have the brains, money, or balls to do it like I do. Of course I get them from the internet, do you think I have five Wall Street Project Managers all earning $300,000 per year sitting in my living room waiting to go to work? I have to go out and find them, and then sell them on the fact that its time to move on and come to work for me for a few months. Its not easy.
So how do you defend yourself as a vendor of the products? Do you come on the forums and go head-to-head with every minimum wage earning sponge jockey in the U.S.A, telling them your products are great and they should get over it? You risk your professional reputation and will end up looking like a fool. Do you take what you have spent your life building and open it up to complete strangers for their personal review and education? Why, this isnt an audit?
Like I have said before. It's car wax guys, no one is selling the cure for cancer. None of these vendors are falsely leading you down a wretched path of destruction and deceit.
this just in - Folex is actually relabled water LOL
whatever is the case with DG and Zaino this has certainly been an amusing and informative (maybe speculative) conversation, and at least will cause some of us to go out and buy whichever product we dont have (i will buy some DG bc i have plenty of zaino) and do our own tests,
i am for one looking forward to it, it will be fun and put money into both companies, i dont think there are any losers here...unless of course i like DG, still wont stop me from buying many other products Sal makes
whatever is the case with DG and Zaino this has certainly been an amusing and informative (maybe speculative) conversation, and at least will cause some of us to go out and buy whichever product we dont have (i will buy some DG bc i have plenty of zaino) and do our own tests,
i am for one looking forward to it, it will be fun and put money into both companies, i dont think there are any losers here...unless of course i like DG, still wont stop me from buying many other products Sal makes
DETAILKING
New member
TigerMike said:
I am not sure what your conversation with Sal was about regarding DG, but perhaps give him a call to clarify and let us know?
It's very common in many industries for different manufacturers to send collegues in the biz their new products for critique and feedback. I am not going to mention any names, but I know of a few players that take part in this and it's all considered friendly competition. Maybe this is what Sal was referring to with DG? I know he has a good relationship with Forrest as well over at Mothers and has sent him beta versions of his products because he values his feedback. I also remember some forum posts where Sal was working with Mike Phillips from Meguiars, but this doesn't mean they are sharing formulas......that would be like suicide. Even if this conversation happened (how long ago??) between Sal and DG, Zaino products have completely changed over the years. Over the years the formula was either solvent or water based, and was tweaked with different ingredients. The Zaino we use today is much different than the one we used 10 yrs ago....but wait......it still looks and smells the same!
_M_ said:
Absolutely man! If there is one thing that I encourage people to do, it is try products for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Ultimately you will end up finding products you like, regardless of what is said about them on any internet forum. And this goes for ANY product, not just the ones discussed here. I think the most informed decision people can make is from experience, and that comes from using, not from a dozen internet opinions as to what other people like for THEMSELVES.
This is all nothing more than conjecture anyhow, and I have said before it wouldn't change a thing one way or the other for me, and I doubt for too many others either. All we really have is bits and pieces of information, and trying to make conclusions from bits and pieces can certainly be a formula for error. But, it doesn't keep people from thinking "what if" anyhow... I'm not the first and won't be the last, that's for sure!
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