2 passes with M105/Wool, no luck...

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PresdntialDtail

New member
I am working on a 2002 Honda S2000. It is in pretty rough shape as far as swirling/RIDs. I have tried everything I have, M105/Wool pad being my most aggressive combination. Only problem is, even after two passes with M105/Wool there are still alot of RIDs that are not coming out. Honda paint is supposed to be super soft, so this combination should take care of it no problem, but its not. It is significantly improving the paint, but its not autopian standard. My question is what is the next step?



I dont think my customer would want to pay for wetsanding. Do I just tell the customer, its as good as its going to get without taking alot more time and possibly wetsanding?



Thanks in advance!



EDIT: UPDATE!!

PresdntialDtail said:
Ok, just talked with the owner..may be bad bad news..parts of the car have been repainted. He says he does not know for sure, but the hood could have possibly been blended. What I am thinking now, is that they could have recleared over the existing swirls in the paint, therefore making it impossible to correct...



any opinions on what to do with this situation now?
Click to expand...
 
What machine are you using? I would just be honest and tell him/her that its as far as you can go with out wetsanding. They should understand.
 
I own a Honda, and here is something else you can try. Take some SIP, and a Green, German LC foam pad, and work the SIP over the RIDS. With the Green pad, you can really work the SIP, and take out some pretty decent defects, due to the long working time this process produces.



You can also try something like M95 that gives a longer working time than the M105 to better take advantage of the pad's cutting ability.
 
With M105s quick working time sometimes you need to hit it at least 4x.



David might be on to something with the SIP/green....



Sometimes on softer paint SIP can really put some heat into the panel, so be careful.
 
thanks for the advice, unfortunately I do not have the green german pads yet. I have Megs burgandy and yellow wool, PFW, orange, white, black, blue. As for polishes, I have M105, SIP, IP, 106fa,106ff,po85rd.



With these products, what would you recommend? I have already tried SIP/Orange with no luck, SIP/yellow wool, and M105/Burg Wool. I did not notice much improvement from M105/Burg than the SIP/yellow gave me.
 
Here is a before..

IMG_4630.jpg




Here is a after..

IMG_4631.jpg




50/50

IMG_4627.jpg
 
Should I just leave it at that? And let the customer know its going to take alot of wet sanding/time to get it the rest of the way?



The best combo seems to be SIP/Woolx2 followed by SIP/Orange. But its still not leaving me with a swirl-free finish...
 
CMA is about 25 Min's from us in Tampa and they have German foam green pads there. But there is a good chance you might need to wet sand those areas.
 
zoomzoom mazda5 said:
CMA is about 25 Min's from us in Tampa and they have German foam green pads there. But there is a good chance you might need to wet sand those areas.
Click to expand...



Well thats the problem, the whole car is like that. Ill just take it for what its worth and let the customer know its not getting any better than that without wet sanding.
 
You might need to move to a yellow pad for a more aggressive combo that will put more heat into the paint than a wool pad will. I've cleared some pretty nasty stuff up on hard clear using that combo so be careful.
 
BuffMe said:
You might need to move to a yellow pad for a more aggressive combo that will put more heat into the paint than a wool pad will. I've cleared some pretty nasty stuff up on hard clear using that combo so be careful.
Click to expand...



Hmm, maybe in the morning I will try to find a yellow foam. Zoom Zoom, where is this CMA place located??
 
I would pick up a different heavy compound while you are there. M105 isn't the end all of compounds. There have been a few C&B's where it didn't produce desired results. Every paint is a different challenge when you are seeking perfection.



Pick up a PTG while you're there! :)



Wish I could drive to CMA. Actually I'm glad I can't! ;)
 
Since you've already got the M105 and the wool pad (plus plenty of others)...



Go ahead and try this:



1. Prime the pad THOROUGHLY.

Rub it in with your hand. It'll take a bit more than you're used to applying.



2. Apply a bead of M105 to the surface, pull it in, and polish at low speed (1000 rpm).

Try 2-3 passes, or until the M105 is just starting to dry.



3. Using a fine mist, spray the surface with water.

Do not add additional product- Just re-polish with what's already in the pad.



I think you'll see a 50% improvement in the cut, but you'll probably see an increase in swirling (it can be easily removed).



After trying this method (count it as one cycle), spur the wool pad (blow it clean with compressed air if you have it).



I won't PROMISE a better result, but I am pretty sure you're going to GET a better result.
 
iamwaxman said:
Since you've already got the M105 and the wool pad (plus plenty of others)...



Go ahead and try this:



1. Prime the pad THOROUGHLY.

Rub it in with your hand. It'll take a bit more than you're used to applying.



2. Apply a bead of M105 to the surface, pull it in, and polish at low speed (1000 rpm).

Try 2-3 passes, or until the M105 is just starting to dry.



3. Using a fine mist, spray the surface with water.

Do not add additional product- Just re-polish with what's already in the pad.



I think you'll see a 50% improvement in the cut, but you'll probably see an increase in swirling (it can be easily removed).



After trying this method (count it as one cycle), spur the wool pad (blow it clean with compressed air if you have it).



I won't PROMISE a better result, but I am pretty sure you're going to GET a better result.
Click to expand...



thanks! I will definitely give that a try and let you know what kind of results I get.
 
I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if someone's already said something similar...



M105 is a strong compound, for sure, but I wouldn't be afraid of a third application. Even a fourth. One thing to remember, is that even though 105 finishes very well, on very soft paints, it'll often times leave marks behind that *look* like RIDS.



Sooooo... here's what I would do.... On an area where you have already done two passes of 105, grab a zero bite foam pad, and do one application of Ultrafina. Now do an IPA wipedown of the area you just used UF on. Then *carefully* inspect the area. You may be surprised out of your socks; you might very well see a completely corrected and glossy surface. Soft paints will often look like they need another application of m105, when really all they need is one shot of UF to clean up what the 105 left and/or started. Now if this area *does* still look like it needs correction, go after it for one or possibly two more applications of 105, then hit it again with the UF. DON'T FORGET to always follow UF up with a very very thorough IPA or prepsol wipedown. That's the only way to really make sure it's not concealing. I'd almost be willing to bet you'll be at 90%+ correction at this point. Even if you're not, I wouldn't go anymore than four passes of 105 unless I had a PTG. Follow it up with UF, and you should be good to go.



On all the Hondas I've done 105 on, I've been successfully able to follow the 105 with UF. No three-step necessary, but if you want go for the ultimate, you could do another step with FPII.



I love doing Hondas now.... 105 and UF on that paint is one of those rare combinations that allow you to do a two-step to perfection.



Most of the time, an intermediate polish is needed between the 105 and UF, but not on Hondas. :) At least, IMHO, YMMV, void where prohibited, for external use only, keep away from flame, etc. etc.



I'm doing a black Acura right now as my final car for the year. I'm using 105 followed by UF, followed by FPII.
 
m105 is a ten out of ten on the cut scale, a rep from megs says if used enough you can go through the clearcoat, a sign of little clearcoat left is a real glossy finish but little to no clarity or reflections, lesson to learn is ot to overpolish paint
 
SuperBee364 said:
I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if someone's already said something similar...



M105 is a strong compound, for sure, but I wouldn't be afraid of a third application. Even a fourth. One thing to remember, is that even though 105 finishes very well, on very soft paints, it'll often times leave marks behind that *look* like RIDS.



Sooooo... here's what I would do.... On an area where you have already done two passes of 105, grab a zero bite foam pad, and do one application of Ultrafina. Now do an IPA wipedown of the area you just used UF on. Then *carefully* inspect the area. You may be surprised out of your socks; you might very well see a completely corrected and glossy surface. Soft paints will often look like they need another application of m105, when really all they need is one shot of UF to clean up what the 105 left and/or started. Now if this area *does* still look like it needs correction, go after it for one or possibly two more applications of 105, then hit it again with the UF. DON'T FORGET to always follow UF up with a very very thorough IPA or prepsol wipedown. That's the only way to really make sure it's not concealing. I'd almost be willing to bet you'll be at 90%+ correction at this point. Even if you're not, I wouldn't go anymore than four passes of 105 unless I had a PTG. Follow it up with UF, and you should be good to go.



On all the Hondas I've done 105 on, I've been successfully able to follow the 105 with UF. No three-step necessary, but if you want go for the ultimate, you could do another step with FPII.



I love doing Hondas now.... 105 and UF on that paint is one of those rare combinations that allow you to do a two-step to perfection.



Most of the time, an intermediate polish is needed between the 105 and UF, but not on Hondas. :) At least, IMHO, YMMV, void where prohibited, for external use only, keep away from flame, etc. etc.



I'm doing a black Acura right now as my final car for the year. I'm using 105 followed by UF, followed by FPII.
Click to expand...



I do not have UF yet either, what is left is def not your typical marring from the M105 itself. The area definitely needs more correcting, I followed up with SIP/white not much better luck. I have a feeling this is just one of those cars where perfect is not reachable without removing too much clear but im gonna try a couple more avenues before I give up on it.
 
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