WW/RW Showdown - N-914 vs Feynlab Pure Rinseless

[acuRAS82]

Starting this thread to document my experience and thoughts using the new-to-me Feynlab Pure Rinseless Wash compared to everyone’s favorite <current> glossless WW/RW, Mckees N-914.

Here they are:



Pure Rinseless labels/directions



N-914 labels/directions



Based on directions:
N-914 RW: 1:256
Feynlab RW: 1:250

N-914 WW: 1:128
Feynlab WW: 1:250

 

[acuRAS82]

Part 1 - Waterless Wash at normal and 2X strength

2016 Audi Q5, LSP is WG Deep Gloss Spritz Sealant. Car was cleaned yesterday but drove 40miles today in heavy rain, most of which are busy highway miles. The car isn’t totally filthy, but definitely has water/crud on lower panels and is about as dirty as I would want to perform a waterless wash.

Here’s the Q5 prior to waterless washing:
Hood



Front wheel wells



Rear



I split the car in 4 to test each product at normal and double strength. Why double strength? Because I use N-914 at double and highly prefer it to normal strength. For Feynlab PR I wanted an equal playing field.

Drivers side back: N-914 normal 1:128
Drivers side front: N-914 double 2:128

Pass. side back: Pure R normal 0.5:128
Pass. side front: Pure R double 1:128


These are both extremely low dilutions, but I know N-914 works. I feel it cleans better and is more lubricated at double strength.

I first applied normal strengths to the rear.

First Pure R:



Then N-914:



Wow! Pure R at 1:256 is surprisingly thick and lubricated. It really clings to the surface without much drip. Similar to how a good QD/spray wax does. N-914 is much more drippy, much more watery. This is why I don’t like it at normal 1:128. Huge advantage to Pure R after initial spray.

I then wiped each in a small area without a final dry, first Pure R:



Then N-914:



Pure R feels thick and lubricated during the wipe. N-914 thin and watery. N-914 dries faster. The towel struggles just slightly with Pure R during final dry, barely worth noting.

I finished the back areas of the car at normal dilution. Advantage Pure R for wiping, but N-914 for drying. Pure R overall victor at normal dilution.


Next I applied double strength to the hood, starting with N-914:



Then Pure R:



Wipe:



N-914 feeling much thicker and better lube. About equal to Pure R at normal dilution. But mire watery still than Pure R. Pure R just sticks to the surface. N-914 dries at about the same pace as Pure R now. They are about equal tackiness while drying now.


Overall thoughts:
Feynlab Pure Rinseless is very impressive. It is quite different in feel than N-914. Thicker, spray wax type feel. Thick lubrication. This did lead to a few more lint particles sticking as I dried it but that’s nitpicking. I don’t notice a huge difference between normal and double strength during this use.

N-914 normal strength doesn’t do it for me, but double strength hits the spot. Great cleaning, good lubrication and a good ratio of thickness to water.

Overall, for my first time use, I have a tie between normal Pure R and double strength N-914. For different reasons, but functionally the same reason. My least favorite thing s N-914 normal. Pure R double doesn’t seem like much change from Pure are normal, but it adds extra thickness that I don’t consider necessary. Both are very inexpensive once diluted and I’ll leave the costs at that without getting into cents per gallon.

If I HAD to pick one to stir the pot, I might just go with Pure R because it’s new (to me), different, I’m amazed at thickness and lubrication at the amazing dilution of 1:256. The new girl on the block has stolen my heart, but time will tell if this is just a fling.

Final pics (car is nice and clean, no clear advantage, they do their jobs!):




Part 2: Rinseless Wash showdown coming when I get a chance.

 

[quebert]

The same RW/WW dilution for Feynlab`s absolutely insane. I`ve used like 10 other WW/RW products. And almost all of them were 1:256`ish for RW and between 1:8 - 1:32 for WW. The one I use now`s 1:16 @ $40 for a gallon. For twice the price I can get 16 times as much with Pure R. That`s even 8 times as much as the Wolfgang Uber I have. I don`t even understand how doing waterless with a rinseless dilution would be able to clean a car. I know if I mixed my WW at the RW dilution on the bottle it would reek havoc on my paint, and probably wouldn`t clean well at all. Looks like when my RW runs out I gotta try Feynlab. Not that it really matters, but how does it smell?

How much did you use? Now I think about it, if I mixed a gallon of WW @ RW dilution, if I super soaked the panels I`m assuming it would work about the same as doing a RW. I currently use about 20oz of solution for my WW.

 

[Loach]

Thanks for running the test, I just ran out of my N-914 and was looking for a new RW to try out before winter hits. I`ll give Feynlab a shot!

 

[acuRAS82]

I don`t even understand how doing waterless with a rinseless dilution would be able to clean a car. I know if I mixed my WW at the RW dilution on the bottle it would reek havoc on my paint, and probably wouldn`t clean well at all. Looks like when my RW runs out I gotta try Feynlab. Not that it really matters, but how does it smell?

How much did you use? Now I think about it, if I mixed a gallon of WW @ RW dilution, if I super soaked the panels I`m assuming it would work about the same as doing a RW. I currently use about 20oz of solution for my WW.

I used about 4-5 ounces on the back passenger side and 4-5 ounces on the front passenger side. This would equate to around 16-20oz for the small SUV. I think you’ll see that it really clings well and you don’t need to use as much as you think (or as much as I did).

I haven’t tried it as RW yet but my guess is that it will be quite a hearty solution, given the WW is the same. It will be interesting to see what it’s like with a soaked mitt or towels. I’ll obviously pre-spray as well and I can’t picture any concerns with marring.

 

[quebert]

I used about 4-5 ounces on the back passenger side and 4-5 ounces on the front passenger side. This would equate to around 16-20oz for the small SUV. I think you’ll see that it really clings well and you don’t need to use as much as you think (or as much as I did).

I haven’t tried it as RW yet but my guess is that it will be quite a hearty solution, given the WW is the same. It will be interesting to see what it’s like with a soaked mitt or towels. I’ll obviously pre-spray as well and I can’t picture any concerns with marring.

Awesome, yeah gotta order this stuff. I was happy with Uber because it was 1:32, where the old CG stuff I had was 1:8. 1:250`s just mind blowing. Sound like could work well in my Marolex foamer. I`m always looking for a new RW/WW to try, and I definitely wouldn`t have found this one on my own. Never even heard of Feynlab until this thread.

 

[acuRAS82]

Awesome, yeah gotta order this stuff. I was happy with Uber because it was 1:32, where the old CG stuff I had was 1:8. 1:250`s just mind blowing. Sound like could work well in my Marolex foamer. I`m always looking for a new RW/WW to try, and I definitely wouldn`t have found this one on my own. Never even heard of Feynlab until this thread.

I will say that I have about 9-10 different WWs in my arsenal and I like them all for different reasons. I’m a PBMG fan and I love using their products synergistically. Even for people bent on SiO2 toppers, their WWs and RWs work great topping the respective spray sealants. WG is so easy and streak free, Pinnacle has a beautiful, carnauba style gloss, BF WW has amazing cleaning and leaves a very slick, polymer look that is amazing on black. Ultima Plus and Acrylic I get amazing results in silver/metallic.

There is obviously a special purpose of also having the glossless, leave-nothing-behind WW/RW for miscellaneous coatings, toppers or any other LSPs that don’t have complimentary partners where you only want to see the true LSP behaviors shine through. For this reason, and due to lack of choices, I’m so happy to have stumbled on Pure Rinseless. I was ordering Feynlab Spray Sealant as the primary purchase but figured why not try this affordable RW given the standard shipping rate. It sat on my shelf for 6-7 months before I started hearing people talk about it. I’m always happy to share my experiences, especially for lesser known gems that don’t have a lot of information yet on the forums.

N-914 is still awesome but it’s nice to play around with different products, I think we would all agree.

 

[acuRAS82]

Part 2: RW Showdown:

My X5, driven in light rain the other day but not too dirty. Light dust, some dust water spots.
It wears Angelwax Enigma Wax/QED/Wash (ceramic toppings).

Similar to the other day, N-914 on drivers side back and sides. Pure Rinseless I n passenger side back and sides.
NOTE: I did the front and roof via WW with Pure Rinseless double strength just to continue to get used to the stuff, and I still like it.

Appearance:
The solutions look identical, clear like water. N-914 has that slight green/blue hue but Pure R is totally clear.

Smell:
The best smell goes to N-914. I’m not sure what Pure R smells like but it’s something like a cold vegetable (cucumber or something. Not a big fan but when diluted it’s not a noticeable issue.

Feel:
Running my fingers in each, they both feel thicker and slicker than water. About equal to each other. There is one noticeable difference: Pure R barely suds when swished around. N-914 does tend to get some sud bubbles when swished. The same can be said for the WW bottles if you shake them. Pure R produces much less suds and they go away faster.

Pure R on left, N-914 on right. 1oz to 2gallons solution each.



Wipe On (Rag Co. Eagle Edgeless):
I used a MF to wipe each respective side of the rear in careful motions, switching the respective MF side after each wipe. With soaked MFs, I feel no difference, both highly lubricated, both taking all dust/dirt with it during each wipe. As with the WW comparison, Pure R really clings to the surface more. N-914 sheets of quite a bit as water would. Not fast enough that there’s no lubrication to wipe it, but it does sheet off after wiping.


N-914 on left; Pure R on right:






From the pictures it may seem like Pure R would be so much more lubricated because it clings. This is only partially true, based on the fact that N-914 is indeed very lubricated during the wipe, before sheeting away. They are very close in this regard. More of an issue when discussing waterless washing I think.


Drying (Griots PFM):
They both dry very easily. There is more Pure R remaining (clung) to the surface so it feels a bit safer when drying, but its also ever-so-slightly-tackier IMO. N-914 is like drying a more watery solution versus Pure R is more like drying a QD.


Final pics:




I may provide summarized thoughts later after I have time to reflect.

 

[rlmccarty2000]

What is the price per ounce difference between the two?

 

[acuRAS82]

What is the price per ounce difference between the two?

Without doing any math because I don’t want to get into how much RW vs WW is being diluted, whether people use N-914 at double strength for WW vs PR at normal strength for WW; so let’s just assume a person uses most the product via RWs which are equal dilution rates to each other:

- Buying in bulk (gallon N-914 or 5L Pure R), N-914 is a better deal, significantly.
- Buying in normal quantities (16oz N-914 or 32oz Pure R), Pure R is the better deal, significantly.

Hope this helps without getting into WW ratios where Pure R uses only 0.25 as much product the way I would personally dilute the waterless washes.

 

[Ochnob]

So I got some delivered today. I was looking for a rinseless that left nothing behind because I have gone back to Sonax PNS for the winter since this car sits outside 24/7. I couldn’t get over the WW dilution rate because it’s so low. I was concerned about scratching the paint for the first time until I got used to it. So I added .5 ounces in 1/2 gallon sprayer. I knew it was more than what the directions recommended.
I cleaned the car. It did cling really well. I like that component of the product. It cleaned really well. When I was done the Sonax felt different. Not as tacky as usual. So I did a water hose test and to my amazement it dramatically affected the PNS water behavior. I was flabbergasted. Sonax is usually bulletproof for me. I have no idea what happened.
Is this stuff PH balanced? Even so Sonax can hold up to a lot. I don’t fault the product since I didn’t follow the damn directions. I will do some more testing this week and may reapply PNS the weekend and retest at 1:250 ratio.

I will repost results. In the meantime I would recommend not going over the 1:250 ratio.

 

[acuRAS82]

So I got some delivered today. I was looking for a rinseless that left nothing behind because I have gone back to Sonax PNS for the winter since this car sits outside 24/7. I couldn’t get over the WW dilution rate because it’s so low. I was concerned about scratching the paint for the first time until I got used to it. So I added .5 ounces in 1/2 gallon sprayer. I knew it was more than what the directions recommended.
I cleaned the car. It did cling really well. I like that component of the product. It cleaned really well. When I was done the Sonax felt different. Not as tacky as usual. So I did a water hose test and to my amazement it dramatically affected the PNS water behavior. I was flabbergasted. Sonax is usually bulletproof for me. I have no idea what happened.
Is this stuff PH balanced? Even so Sonax can hold up to a lot. I don’t fault the product since I didn’t follow the damn directions. I will do some more testing this week and may reapply PNS the weekend and retest at 1:250 ratio.

I will repost results. In the meantime I would recommend not going over the 1:250 ratio.

Oh man. You only went 2X over which is what I’ve been using since I had a gallon of 2X left over from my test above. I’m assuming this impacted the PNS water behavior for the worse based on your text. I wonder if it’s actually leaving something behind to obscure your PNS? I only say this because I can’t picture PNS getting degraded so quickly. Although this stuff was really developed to WW Feynlab coatings but still... if you have Reset or anything you could try washing with that to see if PNS characteristics return.

I’m flabbergasted too, by your results. I haven’t noticed any beading changes to my Q5, it still has generic WG DGSS beads. I haven’t seen the X5 bead yet, and I’ve since applied some Merlin with Enigma QED mix so might be impossible to tell for that one.

 

[Ochnob]

Oh man. You only went 2X over which is what I’ve been using since I had a gallon of 2X left over from my test above. I’m assuming this impacted the PNS water behavior for the worse based on your text. I wonder if it’s actually leaving something behind to obscure your PNS? I only say this because I can’t picture PNS getting degraded so quickly. Although this stuff was really developed to WW Feynlab coatings but still... if you have Reset or anything you could try washing with that to see if PNS characteristics return.

I’m flabbergasted too, by your results. I haven’t noticed any beading changes to my Q5, it still has generic WG DGSS beads. I haven’t seen the X5 bead yet, and I’ve since applied some Merlin with Enigma QED mix so might be impossible to tell for that one.

I tried another test today. I resprayed the hood last night with Sonax BSD and gave until today to test. I had both 914 and Feynlab rinseless in spray bottles at the correct dilution rates this time. Once again Feynlab dramatically reduced the water behavior where the 914 was perfect.
So I’m not sure. Feynlab doesn’t say it’s not PH balanced. And they did create it for their coatings. But still if any sealant in the market could handle it would be both Sonax PNS and BSD. Don’t get me wrong. I like how it clings to the paint. And it does clean well. But wow, never had an experience like this before. I have had products that I bought that weren’t my favorites. I typically kept them and found alternative uses for them. But I am actually gonna return this product.
I will stick with 914 for the winter over my Sonax PNS/BSD combo. And after my spring correction I will go back to my DG 111 and DG 931 to maintain. Yeah I still love my DG combos. Hell DG 111 might be able to hold up to that Feynlab rinseless.

I would love to here other people’s experience with this product.

 

[acuRAS82]

I tried another test today. I resprayed the hood last night with Sonax BSD and gave until today to test. I had both 914 and Feynlab rinseless in spray bottles at the correct dilution rates this time. Once again Feynlab dramatically reduced the water behavior where the 914 was perfect.
So I’m not sure. Feynlab doesn’t say it’s not PH balanced. And they did create it for their coatings. But still if any sealant in the market could handle it would be both Sonax PNS and BSD. Don’t get me wrong. I like how it clings to the paint. And it does clean well. But wow, never had an experience like this before. I have had products that I bought that weren’t my favorites. I typically kept them and found alternative uses for them. But I am actually gonna return this product.
I will stick with 914 for the winter over my Sonax PNS/BSD combo. And after my spring correction I will go back to my DG 111 and DG 931 to maintain. Yeah I still love my DG combos. Hell DG 111 might be able to hold up to that Feynlab rinseless.

I would love to here other people’s experience with this product.

Thanks for sharing, this is disappointing. As mentioned I have noticed no degrading of my ceramic wax LSP.

I just put M21 on one of my cars to hold me through until I decide on winter LSP. I’ll do a similar test in the next day or two and see if brand new M21 gets degraded.

 

[acuRAS82]

Couldn’t wait, did a similar test with Megs M21 applied ~26 hours ago. Feynlab absolutely changes the beading for the worse. Below video links capture the disappointing results:

Before any WWs applied (great sheeting):
https://youtu.be/K_1NcWvAtYo


After applying Feynlab PR on drivers side (right side); N-914 on passenger side. Drivers side sheets poorly now. Passenger side sheets like original.
https://youtu.be/i_qFI1EVgJg


Cleaned up the Feynlab PR side with N-914 followed by two wipe downs of WG Panel Wipe to ensure Feynlab isn’t leaving stuff behind. No change to drivers side, still sheeting poorly.
https://youtu.be/nOoAenbbU5E


In other words, Feynlab appears to heavily degrade M21. I will do a similar test on my X5 hood with fresh ceramic wax to see is Feynlab has impact on ceramics.

Regardless of the ceramic test, I had such high hopes for this WW but now it is at beat case a 1 trick pony, not to be used on sealants without destroying them.

 

[acuRAS82]

After having terrible nightmares about WW zombies eating LSPs alive, I woke up and applied Pure Rinseless to the drivers side of the X5 which had a coat of Enigma ceramic wax applied almost 24 hours ago. The passenger side was not cleaned at all, the car has only been driven a few miles since Enigma.

https://youtu.be/eulC5cgOF4Q

30 seconds after video ended:



Sorry about my camera work, single person effort here. It’s less obvious than the degrading of the M21, but the drivers side water behavior is not as good as the untouched passenger side. The water doesn’t fly off as fast. After the video I took a bucket of water and splashed it over the hood 5 times. From that test it was easy to see the water sticking to the drivers side more and sheeting off slower. I couldn’t get video because I only have two hands. But afterwards you can see the water trails on the drivers side. The passenger side doesn’t have many of these thin line trails as the water shoots off leaving none behind.

After the bucket floods:



Not sure what I can use Pure Rinseless for anymore besides maybe a wax stripper (will probably try this out later on). Maybe it works OK on true coatings, but I would be too paranoid that it’s slowly degrading the coating with regular use.

Winner and still the champion: N-914!!!

 

[01GreyStangGT]

Hey thanks for the review. Have McKee’s and considered trying Feynlab until reading this.

 

[quebert]

CRAP, I`m glad I`ve been broke or I would have ordered the Pure the same day you started this thread. I hadn`t heard of Feynlab before this so I looked into them, they say use gloves and a respirator with their interior spray. Sounds like they have at least 2 products that are too powerful to use normally.

acuRAS82 do you think it has anything to do with you using it twice as strong as recommended?

 

[acuRAS82]

Hey thanks for the review. Have McKee’s and considered trying Feynlab until reading this.

No problem, and real thanks to Ochnob who is the one who caught the stripping/changing action. Without him I probably would have gone a few weeks before realizing my LSP is totally dead because of it.

Note to all: I had used PR a few times on my rear windows that have PBL Glass Coating and I’m trying to determine if beading is any different than other windows, but hard to tell so far. They look OK to me but side-by-sides are where you can really see if the protection is injured.

Ive sent an email to Feynlab asking what this is about, whether they knew it would do this. Still waiting on response.

 

[acuRAS82]

Re-reading Feynlab Pure Wash descriptions, which Pure Rinseless is supposedly based from, it seems like a CarPro Reset type of wash. There are conflicting descriptions saying it is for coated and non-coated surfaces but I’m getting the impression “non-coated” to them means zero protection at all. The biggest claims for Pure Wash are for being used as preparation for new protection or for getting coating properties back, i.e. Reset.

Right now though, I wouldn’t even trust trying this on a coating.