Which health care plan do you choose?

Which health care plan do you choose?

  • Obama care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Affordable health care act

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • same crap, different name

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • got private insurance

    Votes: 19 63.3%

  • i'm running bare

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
groebuck said:
The government is not telling you you have to have insurance, it is making it available to everyone at all income levels.
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That's not quite accurate. The government is telling us that we either need to have insurance or pay a fine. That's forced to have insurance. The fact that it's available doesn't mean it's affordable.

groebuck said:
ACA is not a behind closed door deal with health care. It forces health care companies to compete, it forces them to remove limitations such as pre-existing conditions, lifetime maximum caps, and extends 100% coverage to checkups and other routine health visits. It also forces Health Care companies to refund premiums if they spend a certain amount on advertising, executive bonus payout etc. This is not run by the government, it's a law that forces all the health insurance providers to compete in a market place for your insurance. It grants tax incentives to lower and middle income families to help offset the cost of premiums (premiums you get choices on from silver to platinum plans but with still the basics 100% covered). There are other benefits including protection from rate increases. Any rate increase of 10% or more must be publicly justified (except for grandfathered in plans - which was voted in by house republicans btw)...the 80/20 rule, meaning Health insurance companies must spend at least 80% of the money they take in from us on health care for us or refund the difference. Insurance companies cannot charge you a higher percentage for emergency care at an out of network hospital. The are a whole host of things that ACA improved for everyone.
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I think it's a crock to believe that insurance companies are going to compete and health care costs are going down. Too many people that I know in similar situations as myself are telling me the same thins I'm seeing. Our costs have risen dramatically since this legislation has passed. I don't believe it to be coincidental. I believe the insurance companies saw the writing on the wall and acted swiftly to increase prices.

I do not deny that there are good things in this act. Pre-existing condition acceptance, kids covered until their 26 etc. but in the long run I believe cost is something that the American public has no way of foreseeing and will be detrimental maybe even prohibitive for the average family. Where companies used to provide insurance for families only the employee will now be covered. Now families are forced to buy the government's package to have what they already had.

My belief (once again) is that we've been sold down the river on the affordable part of this act. It may be much more affordable for those with serious conditions but the average guy is going to take it in the pocket. It's the only way you can have millions of formerly uninsured people now covered. Someone is going to pay for it and it's the already broken backed middle class. This does affect mid sized business and I've seen it first hand in my sons company. I've been wrong before and would really like to be wrong on this subject. I don't see this to be the glazed donut that President has promised. This is just my opinion (based on some of what I'm seeing first hand and a bit of logic) and is worth exactly what it cost you to read this post.
 
That fine is nominal - you don't have to pay it you cannot afford health insurance to begin with. It is only applied to people who can afford health insurance but refuse to get it. You can be exempt from the file for a multitude of reasons. I never said health care costs have gone down. Health care companies have raised costs in anticipation of ACA...but in places where there is an active market (states running their own) they have seen costs come down dramatically. So much so that market place options are sometimes more attractive than employer options. As far as the costs and the middle class ACA will not affect the middle class. ACA pays for itself in less than 10 years.
 
As far as the costs and the middle class ACA will not affect the middle class. ACA pays for itself in less than 10 years.
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Are you quoting a reliable source or is your guess.

I will CERTAINLY affect the middle class. The middle class will be the majority participant and premium payer.

If ACA is everything you think it is, why are major unions fighting to change it or replace it? :)
 
Mr. Gloss said:
Are you quoting a reliable source or is your guess.

I will CERTAINLY affect the middle class. The middle class will be the majority participant and premium payer.

If ACA is everything you think it is, why are major unions fighting to change it or replace it? :)
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Major unions (Teamsters, food workers and hospitality workers) are upset because they blame ACA for companies shifting workers to part time status to avoid providing health care.

It won't affect the middle class as far as taxes - ACA is funded my a .09 percent increase in medicare tax on people who make 200K or more, an excise tax on cadillac health plans (those gotten by the very wealthy), a surtax on investment income for the wealthy and taxes on medical device makers and indoor tanning.

As far as costs to the middle class - a family of 4 who make 90K combined would pay 713 dollars a month with tax credits, that same family of 4 making 50k combined would pay 280 a month for silver level insurance and those are costs only if they cannot get insurance from employers. The tax credit is a sliding scale the less you make the more you receive.

As far as small businesses, tax credits will cover half of the cost of insuring employees (in January currently 35%). There is a bill to extend that to SB with up to 50 employees, but it is sitting in congress.
 
groebuck said:
Major unions (Teamsters, food workers and hospitality workers) are upset because they blame ACA for companies shifting workers to part time status to avoid providing health care.
As well as they will be subject to additional tax for "Cadillac plans" And yes you are correct that the shift to part time work is also part of what they are upset about, as should everybody else

It won't affect the middle class as far as taxes - ACA is funded my a .09 percent increase in medicare tax on people who make 200K or more, an excise tax on cadillac health plans (those gotten by the very wealthy), a surtax on investment income for the wealthy and taxes on medical device makers and indoor tanning.
Way over simplified..... especially for people/companies with a "S" corp or llc

As far as costs to the middle class - a family of 4 who make 90K combined would pay 713 dollars a month with tax credits, that same family of 4 making 50k combined would pay 280 a month for silver level insurance and those are costs only if they cannot get insurance from employers. The tax credit is a sliding scale the less you make the more you receive.
Somehow I believe your #'s are wrong. Isn't this going to be state dependent?

As far as small businesses, tax credits will cover half of the cost of insuring employees (in January currently 35%). There is a bill to extend that to SB with up to 50 employees, but it is sitting in congress.Here too, I believe your #'s are wrong. As well as business owners don't get their hc "benefit" tax free, owners must pay tax as if it were income
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My replies in red

One thing I know for sure, is that my insurance costs have gone from less than 900 a month to when it was signed, to "my plan being dropped (make a different selection) to 1200/month to /1700/month to now at 2444/month for a family plan. Funny part about it is that it is lower by one person.

Another thing I can tell you for sure is that the healthcare system does not have the infrastructure to handle the presidential anticipated onslaught of new patients. It was a hap hazzardly thought out rushed to market plan. Had it been thought about properly the govt would have opened medical schools, educated dr's for free for "x" years of service to be placed where needed.

Think of it sort of like tearing down a single family house and putting up a 40 family apartment building without increasing the electric/water/sewer capacity.

THe biggest thing that urks me is that legislators actually signed a bill that they hadn't read. (ala nancy pelosy, "we gotta sign it before we know whats in it").

BULL - try that in court - "I didn't read the contract before I signed it...."
 
What happens to the family of four when they have several medical emergencies and or procedures and have to pay out of pocket $12,700?

How do they rebound from that?

They don't.

Work the math:

$720 per month plus $12,700 = $21,340 that calendar year.
 
Ronkh said:
My replies in red

One thing I know for sure, is that my insurance costs have gone from less than 900 a month to when it was signed, to "my plan being dropped (make a different selection) to 1200/month to /1700/month to now at 2444/month for a family plan. Funny part about it is that it is lower by one person.

Another thing I can tell you for sure is that the healthcare system does not have the infrastructure to handle the presidential anticipated onslaught of new patients. It was a hap hazzardly thought out rushed to market plan. Had it been thought about properly the govt would have opened medical schools, educated dr's for free for "x" years of service to be placed where needed.

Think of it sort of like tearing down a single family house and putting up a 40 family apartment building without increasing the electric/water/sewer capacity.

THe biggest thing that urks me is that legislators actually signed a bill that they hadn't read. (ala nancy pelosy, "we gotta sign it before we know whats in it").

BULL - try that in court - "I didn't read the contract before I signed it...."
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i will leave the final word with you I am not going to change yours or anyone's mind who already has decided. All I ask is people seek out the fact other than listen to the word of either side.
 
groebuck said:
That fine is nominal - you don't have to pay it you cannot afford health insurance to begin with. It is only applied to people who can afford health insurance but refuse to get it. You can be exempt from the file for a multitude of reasons. I never said health care costs have gone down. Health care companies have raised costs in anticipation of ACA...but in places where there is an active market (states running their own) they have seen costs come down dramatically. So much so that market place options are sometimes more attractive than employer options. As far as the costs and the middle class ACA will not affect the middle class. ACA pays for itself in less than 10 years.
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HA, that is great, no effect to the middle class?!?!?! Why do I, that already has insurance through my employee, now will have more taxes taken out of my pay. I heard a statistic where every working class person will now have to pay for 3 people health care.

Why do you think the $ to pay for this is going to come from? Someone has to pay, and its the average working class, as usual.
 
You have more taxes taken about because of the payroll tax holiday nothing to do with healthcare. Congress actually removed it in a fiscal cliff deal. I am not sure where you hear your statistics but that is not true at all. The cost of healthcare for middle and lower class families comes as a tax subsidy. They premiums are set my the health insurance companies. If you really want to know where the money comes from for those subsidies scroll up I posted it.
 
And if device taxes are used to compensate for some subsidies, do you think the device provider will increase the costs to consumers?

Of course.

Example: Feds raise excise tax on tires by 12%.

Do you think you'll pay the 12% or will the tire dealer absorb it? ;)
 
Addicted2Bling said:
You're the one telling me the government wasn't forcing people to get health care, when they really are. Get your facts straight before you spread wrongful information mr groebuck
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He is just stating what Obama, Pelosi and reid have been saying since it's inception
 
Mr. Gloss said:
And if device taxes are used to compensate for some subsidies, do you think the device provider will increase the costs to consumers?
Of course.

Example: Feds raise excise tax on tires by 12%.

Do you think you'll pay the 12% or will the tire dealer absorb it? ;)
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Possibly including tablets/laptops/desk tops/cell phones
 
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