Used my rotary for the first time today, not too happy

JasonD

JasonD

New member
Well, after receiving my DeWalt rotary for Christmas, I am JUST getting around to trying it out today, and I must say that my experience wasn't the best I could have had. Nothing went wrong, I just didn't get the results I was hoping for, and it turned to be a LOT harder to use than I thought it would be.



First of all, I decided to practice on my Explorer's hood with cc failure since it has to be repainted anyway. I figured if I was going to mess anything up, I'd mess up something that was already bad off. :o



My intention was just to see if I could smooth out the *checking* on the hood from the cc failure any more than I have already previously done with the PC.



Here's what I did:



I decided to try out some #83 with a yellow 8.5" LC CP VC cutting pad. Not only is this the first time I've ever used a rotary, but it's also the first time using #83, so this is a totally new experience to me.



First I misted the pad with a little water, and layed down about a 8" line of polish on the hood and scooped it up with the rotary, no problem, and I started polishing arund 1200rpm. I immediately noticed that the pad was gripping the surface WAY more than I would have liked, so I stopped and put a little more polish on the pad with another mist of water, which helped but didn't solve the problem. Since this is my first time, I just figured this was one of those things that comes with experience since I knew I had plenty enough polish. Playing with the *level* of the polisher helped a little bit, but it was pretty much pulling the whole time.



I tried to let the machine do all the work with no added pressure to the pad at all, and held the rear most part of the handle and my other hand was just kind of *steering* the machine with the hand grip. I couldn't let the machine go with my left hand because if I did it would have shot itself off the hood. It would go smooth sometimes, and then it would grip the surface real hard every now and then(bite). The biggest problem with the pad gripping like this is it would lay down a scuff of very hard, dried, caked on polish on the paint that just didn't want to come off.



I'm actually wondering if #83 was even meant to be used with a rotary because even at 1200-1400rpm, it dried up extremely fast with a working time of about 15 seconds per 2x2 area, which wasn't nearly enough to do what I wanted. The more polish I used, the more it would gum up in the pad and leave scuff marks. I'm really thinking my problems were from not enough lubrication, but I'm not sure. Suggestions?



After getting completely frustrated with the hood, I stopped, put the rotary away, pulled out the old trusty PC, and went to town with #83 and it came out beautiful, but not without the death of a backing plate. I was using a 7.5" LC VC yellow cutting pad and a 6" extra thick (padded) backing plate from CMA, and the pad was gripping the surface so hard from the #83 that it ripped the backing plate right in half. I don't know if this was a defect in the bp or due to the extra gripping of the #83. Does #83 always do this?? I never have these problems with 1Z or 3M, so this is a first for me.



IMG_0619.jpg






And then to top it all off, I went to use my brand new bottle of EX-P (+) and I dropped it in my garage. The bottle is cracked and no good, but I didn't lose any polish thank goodness. I just transferred the polish to a new bottle, but you would know that when one thing goes wrong, there is more to follow. :angry



In the end, the detail came out great. There's no point in posting pics because it just looks the same as I did it last time (you can see it in my gallery), but I WAS impressed with the new EX-P. Extremely easy to apply. It has the consistency of AIO, and the look is definitely wetter than the old EX-P, IMO. As far as durability, we will see but I'm sure I won't be let down.



I've got to say, after using this goliath of a polisher, I have a lot more respect for the ones who use these machines regularly, and end up with flawless details.
 
JDookie said:
First I misted the pad with a little water, and layed down about a 8" line of polish on the hood and scooped it up with the rotary, no problem, and I started polishing arund 1200rpm. I immediately noticed that the pad was gripping the surface WAY more than I would have liked, so I stopped and put a little more polish on the pad with another mist of water, which helped but didn't solve the problem.
Click to expand...



The first time you prime the pad, apply the polish directly to the pad and rub it around with your fingers to cover it evenly. Possibly it wasn't covered so it was skipping.



Once its primed then you can lay down the polish bead on the surface.
 
That makes sense, and I will do that next time but once the pad got to the point where I would say that it was primed, the polish on the pad was very sticky and gummy. What's up with that? I've never seen anything like this on a PC.





Here's a quote from the CMA website:



"While some manufacturers recommend buffing with their pads flat on the surface, I have never mastered this technique. I find the larger, 8 inch pads used on circular polishers are very squirrelly when placed flat on the surface. I find that tilting the polisher just a little gives me much more control over the pad. The manufacturer of our advanced, variable contour foam pads recommends tilting the polisher slightly, putting just a little more pressure on the pad's edge."



I was trying to keep the pad as flat as possible. Was this my mistake? Should I have been tilting it? I was under the impression that you would induce swirls if you tilted the pad?
 
Hey,



Using the rotary takes a lot of practice! The gripping or Hop could be caused my many factors including:



1. too much product or saturated pad

2. Not enough product

3. Too low of buffing speed

4. The user was off balance and not square to the panel

5. etc...



Meguiar's #83 works extremely well with the rotary. If you are getting gum-up on the paint, either too much product was being used or the pad was already too saturated. You need to clean the pad with a brush often when using a rotary. I like to clean the pad after every 2 panels. When the pad becomes too saturated, I switch to a new one. I usually use 2 buffing pads per buffing step.



When using #83, the rotary should be spinning ~ 1750 RPM. Keep the pad flat. Tilting can lead to holograms and buffer burns.



Finally, I would strongly encourage you to watch Meguiar's video: "How to Remove Paint Defects". It gives a very clear explanation on how to use the rotary as well as some of the common mistakes made by beginners.



Give the above a try! :)



Tim
 
I think #83 was meant to be used for an orbital, hence the name "Dual Action". I could be wrong though.



I have no rotary experience so I don't know what else to tell you. Hopefully I'll have some practice with a Makita in the next few weeks.
 
JDookie,



Well, this also my 1st time using rotary. I have Makita 9227 and I'm using bail handle..instead of the straight handle.

I'm using 7.5" LC orange pad w/PBSSR2.5 @1500. My car is a 1999 Accord w/very few swirls. I primed the pad with some Meg QD crap and spread 8" ssr2.5 on the panel. Set the pad in 10 o'clock position(seen this Meg Video ;)) and scoop the ssr2.5 up. I never got any cake on, but I did get few splate here and there, so no biggie. See, Meg DACP dont work too well on hot day/humid day and crappy sunny day w/o shade.

Today in NYC is sunny and brite as hell and temp is around 60deg. See PoorBoy SSR(I think all their products too) meant to work under the sun...:bow

I gotta love PB :xyxthumbs . So long story short, I have no problem with rotary at all. Matter of fact, I'm thinking selling my PC.

I will post up some pics later on.
 
MongooseGA said:
I think #83 was meant to be used for an orbital, hence the name "Dual Action". I could be wrong though.



I have no rotary experience so I don't know what else to tell you. Hopefully I'll have some practice with a Makita in the next few weeks.
Click to expand...



No, Meguiar's #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish can be used by: Rotary, orbital, DA or by hand. :)



Tim
 
Hey klnyc



You do have a point, Meguiar's recommends that their products be used in the shade and on a cool surface. With that being said, during the winter the sun is usually not that strong so the products can be used. But when the temperatures are high, you need to work in the shade.



I am glad your first experience with the rotary was a positive one! :)



Do you have any full-on sun pictures you can post???



Tim
 
JDookie,



Keeping the pad flat is OK but it can cause your pad to hop at times because you may be over extending your balance between the machine and your shoulder area. Having your center over the machine at all times is ideal but of course this is unrealistic in practice.



I usually buff with the pad slightly tilted and I use, usually, flat pads, either 7 or 6 inch. 8 or 9 inch pads are far too large and also produce more heat.



Also do NOT "steer" the polisher with the handle. In fact you should be able to buff the car without ever using that handle. It is there for balance, for "control" but not for "steering".



I very rarely mist my pads/surface with anything. I do not prime the pad nor do I lay down a bead of product but rather I apply a glob of product to the paint then place my polisher pad over that glob and begin polishing.



Scott Perkins prefers to apply it to the pad which also works great, Ron prefers to prime the pad and lay down a small strip of product, Kevin Ferrel lays down two strips of product.....for them this works! That is the key. Play around with a few different things and you'll soon find a method best suited for you.



Anthony
 
MongooseGA said:
I think #83 was meant to be used for an orbital, hence the name "Dual Action". I could be wrong though.



I have no rotary experience so I don't know what else to tell you. Hopefully I'll have some practice with a Makita in the next few weeks.
Click to expand...



IMO, the "dual action" refers to DACP's ability to clean AND polish the paint with one product.
 
Great advice to date...



On horizontal surfaces, I apply 'ribbons' of the chosen product directly to the surface. On vertical surfaces, I apply the chosen product to the pad itself... just seems logical to me.



Over time, it becomes pretty simple - but it does take time.



Ya' know, even surgeons practice.... see my sig.



Have Fun!



Jim
 
Carl (Pigeonbus) and I tried out my new Chicago rotary for the first time, and had no real problems. I installed very few holograms. My one major problem was the hopping. It occurred several times, always on a higher speed. I think the handle being on top helped a little, because you can easily lift up the machine if it starts hopping (see below pic). We started the rotary out on speed 1, but went up to 3 for much of the time.



Here's the result after SSR2.5 and FPII (Carl's getting ready to remove those nasty minor swirls that wouldn't go away)...

CarlRotary.jpg




Overall I was happy with the speed of the process compared to using a PC. I would just like to keep it from hopping. Maybe the pad didn't have even distribution of product?
 
Wow, it's like the PC trend has finally shifted to the rotary trend. Everyone as a whole has gotten bored with the PC.



My plan is to buy a hood to practive on horizontal panels and a fender to practice on curves/ changes in shape. Hell, I'll buy a WS6 hood and be done with it ;)



I am going to take the rotary very high in speed and try to burn the paint so I know what my limits are. I'm also going to try and burn paint on 1000-1200 RPM so I know what it takes for it to occur at normal speeds. It's like hammering a RWD car in a turn, just so you know how hard you can push it :D
 
From my experience today, a test panel isn't really needed. We didn't have any real problems. I even tilted the pad about 10 degrees and ran it on speed 3 for a few seconds while moving the pad back and forth across the paint. NO HOLOGRAMS.

I am also going to purposely burn the paint on the underside of a hood or somewhere else inconspicuous.
 
White95Max said:
From my experience today, a test panel isn't really needed. We didn't have any real problems. I even tilted the pad about 10 degrees and ran it on speed 3 for a few seconds while moving the pad back and forth across the paint. NO HOLOGRAMS.

I am also going to purposely burn the paint on the underside of a hood or somewhere else inconspicuous.
Click to expand...



The only car we have that I would even consider testing this out on would be the Jeep because it already has some CC failure spreading and it's being replaces soon anyway.



Or the '46 Plymouth, but I don't wanna practice on SS paint the 1st time.



And my parents told me I couldn't touch their cars with it until I mastered it on something else.



A test panel is necessary for me. Just more money I have to spend :(
 
Like Paul say, you really dont need a panel to pratice on. If you use foam pad, it's harder to burn your paint then woven. You need to keep moving thats all.



Yup, its look everyone(most) its hoppig into rotary bandwagon.:up
 
Great info so far guys, thanks a lot.



I watched the Meg's videos a long time ago, and they tell you to polish with the pad completely flat, but they were using 6 or 7" flat pads in that video too. When I originally posted questions as to which pads to buy for my rotary back in January, I was getting a lot of replies saying that the VC pads were the better way to go and that the size of the pad didn't really matter, but I am seeing now that that's not true at all. I'm thinking my biggest problem is that I am using the wrong pads.....for a novice anyway.



As far as sunlight, I was detailing in the shade but surface temperature might have been around 80 degrees at the hottest. The surface definitely felt warmer immediately after polishing than before, so I was definitely creating a little heat.



Anthony and Jimmy B.,



Thank you very much for the tips. I am definitely *steering* the polisher and I know that I'm not supposed to but I couldn't figure out how to correct my style to not have to steer it. It was always either pushing or pulling away from me. Could this be because I was trying to polish flat and not tilted? Could it be because of the 8.5" VC Constant Pressure pads I'm using instead of a smaller say 6" pad?



Bottom line, what is the *best* pads to use with a rotary?? I only bought three of these 8.5" pads, so it's not really that much of a loss if I never use them again. I just want to have the best pad to use so I can't blame the pad for screwing me up anymore.
 
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