Turtle Wax: New member

I havnt really used TW stuff, but off the top of my head, the stuff people like- dont like here, that would prevent us from purchasing a product:



Stuff that stains trim, too annoying to mess with

Stuff that attracts dust

Bad smells

Hard to remove

Shine is gone if it rains

Paint isnt slick enough/ soap isnt slick enough

Soaps with "wax" in it is pretty much useless for us

Hard to spread/ remove

Water doesnt have small tight uniform beading

Dressing slinging off tires

Wheel cleaners that are too weak/ too strong/ browns tires

Cleaner waxes are almost always seen here as stuff for people who dont care much about their paint

Interiors are either meant to be new looking with no gloss, or have a slight sheen that feels rich and luxurious. If an interior product for one second feels greasy, its in the trash.

Dont BS people. If your product says it...for example...cleans glass, just clean the glass without streaking, without doing it 5 times. Just work as advertised.



Sometimes i use something and i am like ***, didnt anyone who makes this crap even bother to use it before they sold it??



We might fall for good marketing now and then, but in an hour after someone gets something home the whole internet knows if its junkola or not.



I think once you develop a product that meets these things, then its just a matter of refinement to inch closer to stuff like Zaino, Optimum, Ultima.
 
JBM said:
I think once you develop a product that meets these things, then its just a matter of refinement to inch closer to stuff like Zaino, Optimum, Ultima.
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There are many brands like Collinite, Duragloss, etc. that affordable, respected and are not premium priced. It depends on the corporate goals.



Most serious detailers will always pay more for a product that works than a low price for something that does not. They are not usually looking to spend the least amount because they will likely only use it once.
 
Another thing I'll add...



At Detailfest, Meguiar's showed up with Mike Phillips and a huge Semi. Mothers showed up with Forrest, who knew his stuff for sure as well. The head of Flex North America was there. Point being, there were a lot of big name and important guys there. Turtle Wax needs to have some kind of a presence like this as well if they want to move into the enthusiast market.



To take that a step farther, having some show cars using all Turtle Wax products could be a big help too.
 
Bunky said:
There are many brands like Collinite, Duragloss, etc. that affordable, respected and are not premium priced. It depends on the corporate goals.



Most serious detailers will always pay more for a product that works than a low price for something that does not. They are not usually looking to spend the least amount because they will likely only use it once.
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Your right. I would pay $40 for Z8, a bottle lasts me maybe 1- 1 1/2 years. After using Ultimate Compound, i would pay more for it in a heartbeat also.
 
nosbusa1700 said:
If your company is looking for the maximum amount of profits, and sales that you enjoy in the large box retailers (selling to the masses) you're likely to be disappointed targeting a line toward us and many like us.
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Well said Nosbusa.



I'd like to add in this: truthful marketing. When you decide to make high end products for us pro's - keep this in mind. If you made the product to work a certain way just say so. If you come out with some crazy wax with a high carnauba content - it's going to likely sweat after application in hot climates. No big deal when you admit that this is what can happen with a high nuba % wax.



Pro's in many ways aren't looking for a one product that does it all. We know it doesn't exist. We want what works. "Liquid clay" is likely a very good idea to market to most OTC people that simply want something easy. Pro's on the other hand need clay that works with it's intended purpose to the max. If TW comes out with a wax meant to be hyper durable - then it better be. If it's not as glossy / easy to apply as others: no big deal as long as it's durable just as expected.
 
"I have a few questions. What is the optimal outcome / result you are looking for? ie, is it primarily shine? depth? durability? What outcome is most important to u? Does time play a role in limiting ur process?"

to answer your question^^^^

i think you are mainly concerned with the general public.. and making a product they would like.. i think that to the average joe, ease of use, and durability play the biggest role.. im not too sure about reflectivity vs warmth and depth for the average person. but keep in mind,a shiny surface shows swirl and scratches much more easily.. do there has to be a balance , because most people are not going to have a perfect finnish... i still tihnk the ice polish should be called a wax.. full of fillers, very reflective/shiny, and durable... that would be ideal for the typical customer.. easy to use. covers defects (to a degree) and makes it shine and bead for a long time... you could probably market it as a sealant... because you dont have anything marketed as a sealant, so it would be something new from you for them.. dont just call it ice polish again, or nobody will notive it. if you call a sealant and let them know just how long it lasts, people will try it, and will keep using it if it really does what it says.. sorry that post is so wordy and long.



to make this post even more rediculously long..i tried your ice wash today, which i recieved as a sample at a carshow from a napa tent thing.. it was sitting on my shelf until i saw this thread. and it is really good stuff... great lubricity, smells awesome, rinses clean, good cleaning power, easy on skin .. etc etc.. i plan to buy a gallon jug when i run out of my wash... that wont be for a while though :-\. i already have wayy too much car wash because i like to try new things.. im always looking for something better.

most people here like to try new things, i really enjoy it, and have a huge collection of detailing supplies because of my curiosity.. im sure if you sent out samples to the people of autopia they would try them for you.. most would give honest feedback too. its really cool that you're here trying to talk to use and figure out what everyone wants, instead of trying to tell us your products are what we want. thumbs up for turtle wax :-)
 
I think that handing out samples might cross the line from "casual observer" to the "requires a paid sponsorship" here. Maybe check with DavidB before going forward with that.

Along that line, I think TW becoming a paid sponsor on here might give it some "better" input. It would allow it to have more of a presence among "enthusiasts" and would allow a more direct communication between parties.
 
As much as i would like to think TW wants to improve its image and products, i have serious doubts partly because he actually defended the TW compound. There is no scenario on earth that would make anyone say, "i have to go get some TW compound for this". The stuff is horrible and causes more damage than it fixes.
 
If TW wants to attract detailer's attention, they should develop a detailer's line similar to Meg's detailer series (generally gallon quantities sold as concentrates).



If TW wants to attract enthusiat's attention, they should develop a high end line and not call it Turtle Wax.



To many people, "Turtle Wax" is synonymous with "generic retail store crap". No offense.
 
Marketing thoughts.



Build a better mousetrap. You have the resources to build a better product and one of the best communication tools in history, use them. I have looked at rows upon rows of product and decided I don't care about packaging, I want results and this is the place I chose to find results. You show me side by side comparisons of your product to a known performer and I will buy it, period. The caveat is that I must be able to achieve similar results or know why.



I suspect small batch runs would be counter to your current process, mess with profitability and irritate Don, but trickle down marketing can work.



Take a product and know its the best out there, offer it only through the estore in a plain brown wrapper at a price that allows product sustainability and I suspect it will be bought and recommended.
 
David Fermani said:
They already tried that = Zymol liquid Cleaner Wax. :har:
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Yeah, that was lame. Actually to be fair, if you compared it to Meg's #6, which was right next to it on the shelf when it came out, the "Zymol" wasn't bad. Seriously, I was thinking something that would compete with the $50-$100 waxes. I'm sure Turtle Wax has the development background to make better products, they just don't. Instead, they go for silly junk:



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Extra deep cleaning power for chumps that don't want to spring the extra $5 for a brush!



and products made to hide problems, rather than fix them:



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Ill bet if that black box said menzerna on it, people would be all over it. To me the packing on the black box looks great along with the bottles and labels. its just the name turtle wax!
 
bufferbarry said:
Ill bet if that black box said menzerna on it, people would be all over it. To me the packing on the black box looks great along with the bottles and labels. its just the name turtle wax!
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Big effing dot.



Every time I see that, I'm tempted to pick it up and look at it. Good marketing right there, just too bad it's got the negative connotation to the name.



One last suggestion to me - start (or begin again) to market products that fix, not ones that hide.
 
Agreed Barry, some people see TW and go into hysterics. Hey, if they're serious about getting into the detailing line, I'm sure they have the resources for it. I've been trying to weed out my cabinent and just reduce the number of products to the ones I truely use, but I'm open minded enough to try something new if it looks like it fits my "bang for the buck" critia.
 
While I don't think you'll find many of them here, there is a huge market of folks who are not interested in correcting. For them, stuff like the Black Box is probably great. I personally think that kit looks like an absolutely great example of marketing.



As far as this "bad attachment" to the Turtle Wax name - I don't really see that. Yeah, I know most of "us" have a bad thought about TW, but we're most likely a fraction of a percent of the people who buy car care products on a yearly basis. I think the average folks probably think TW is a recognized, and most likely trusted brand. Sometimes we seem to forget that we - people who frequent these detailing forums - are in a very small minority.



I think it is great that a large company like TW wants to better their product by researching and getting opinions from a place like this. But with their position in the car care market and their business plan/design, I doubt they could ever be profitable by making products that compete with the products a lot of us choose to use.
 
Has anyone thought about Black Majic Car Wax? It was rated No. 1 by Consumer Reports recently. Now I don't beleive everything CR says. But that will attract many average Joe blow buyers.
 
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