Thoughts and Prayers for the victims and Families in Orlando

House of Wax- Thanks for that link. Sounds to me (gee, like that`s a biggie...) like G4S dropped the ball.

Heh heh, they almost make supporting Hezbollah sound like a good thing..."enemy of my enemy..." and all that.
 
Crazy religious beliefs can be very strong motivators. IMO we all *NEED* to gain an understanding of things like this, including the motivations.
Let me start of by saying I never thought I’d be sharing a story this personal on a public detailing site but I’ve come to know that it’s much more than that. What we have here is a community that I appreciate and respect (a home away from home for me).

YES, Accumulator we need to gain more of an understanding!

Some years ago I worked as a manager for a tech support company with 300+ people fresh off the boat from Afghanistan, Syria, and Algeria (etc.). People from these countries have been flooding into Montreal since before 9/11 (mainly after) and I took it as an opportunity to get to know more about their culture, religious beliefs, and motivation (I mainly thought it would help me become a better manager, at the time).

It wasn`t long before they started hitting me with their propaganda, first about my beliefs (I`m not religious and they found that very threatening), then about my American citizenship (many despised that I thought of myself as American), and lastly about my belief in evolution (as none believed in it). I was appalled at the level of brainwashing these people had been subjected to. Anything I showed them they condemned because it wasn`t Muslim. They truly believed that I was just trying to assimilate them. That’s when things turned hostile and one told me "if you were in my country I`d kill you". Most people would take this deeply personally but I didn’t because he was lost and clearly had more to say. I took it as an opportunity to learn about the ones that hate us most for no logical reason, so I offered the guy a ride home and he accepted, oddly. On our ride I ask him why he had said that to me and he proceeded to tell me the story of his terrible childhood growing up in Afghanistan. His parents were murdered by Soviets when he was only 8 years old. He was trained to fight by 9 years old and was taught to work in the fields growing poppies (there`s a lot of detail I`m leaving out here). He started to cry and asked me to pull over so he could get out, I apologized for any offense I may have caused and he said my only offense was my ignorance to what`s happening to other people and how I could just laugh and be happy not knowing. He never returned to work, and I never saw him again.

Unfortunately the majority of people from these countries just outright hate us. To such an extent I don`t mention that I`m American to some people because it sparks anger and distrust.

I will say this, not all of them were like this but the ones that weren`t kept to them self’s for fear of being singled out and did not speak with me openly. Only a very few (foreign) devout Muslims have ever confided in me so I`ve only seen the tip of the ice burg. Just to get the story straight this "hate" didn`t have to do with religion or nationality it was mostly what I`d consider "brain washing/mental conditioning" done over decades while we focused our efforts elsewhere. It’s their society that gets exploded and used to manipulate them that’s what makes it hard to paint a target, they’re like zebra stripes to a lion (I know the Zebra thing is a myth but you get what I’m saying).

Another important point about our ignorance of their culture became obvious to me when the city of Toronto commissioned a Muslim artist to paint a mural but he painted a Jihad (apparently a holy war against non-Muslims). No one realized what it said/meant at first, but it wasn`t long until someone wrote into the news. I think Toronto should keep it up as a reminder of their objective and as a symbol of what to look out for in their culture. It`s also a reminder of how much these extremist have already infiltrated us and are exploiting the freedoms in our culture.

I`m so sorry for all the lives lost in Orlando, it`s truly a tragedy. It`s deeply saddening and terrible.
 
thank you for posting that. scary stuff.

Unfortunately this is all a problem that has no answer. People don`t want to accept that and feel like "something needs to be done" whether it will make a difference or not. The frequency of these events is only going to increase. The world is becoming a smaller and smaller place thanks to ease of travel and communication. Add to that the volume of people from that area of the world that just flat out will never mesh with Western culture, it`s a recipe for these events to occur. Stripping us of our right to self protection will not help, we refuse to stop the flow of people into this country and/or deport the radicals, and it`s impossible to stop their communication. It sucks this stuff happens, but it is what it is
 
4u2nvinmtl ----

Thank you so much for sharing that experience with us...
It really means alot to me and I am sure, others as well..

I am so glad that you are the kind of good man that wanted to understand and help.. We all need to be like that more often than not...
The challenges you went through were really hard - I am glad you got through them and hopefully, your good heart and intentions had an influence on some..
Dan F
 
Let me start of by saying I never thought I’d be sharing a story this personal on a public detailing site but I’ve come to know that it’s much more than that. What we have here is a community that I appreciate and respect (a home away from home for me).

YES, Accumulator we need to gain more of an understanding!

Some years ago I worked as a manager for a tech support company with 300+ people fresh off the boat from Afghanistan, Syria, and Algeria (etc.). People from these countries have been flooding into Montreal since before 9/11 (mainly after) and I took it as an opportunity to get to know more about their culture, religious beliefs, and motivation (I mainly thought it would help me become a better manager, at the time).

It wasn`t long before they started hitting me with their propaganda, first about my beliefs (I`m not religious and they found that very threatening), then about my American citizenship (many despised that I thought of myself as American), and lastly about my belief in evolution (as none believed in it). I was appalled at the level of brainwashing these people had been subjected to. Anything I showed them they condemned because it wasn`t Muslim. They truly believed that I was just trying to assimilate them. That’s when things turned hostile and one told me "if you were in my country I`d kill you". Most people would take this deeply personally but I didn’t because he was lost and clearly had more to say. I took it as an opportunity to learn about the ones that hate us most for no logical reason, so I offered the guy a ride home and he accepted, oddly. On our ride I ask him why he had said that to me and he proceeded to tell me the story of his terrible childhood growing up in Afghanistan. His parents were murdered by Soviets when he was only 8 years old. He was trained to fight by 9 years old and was taught to work in the fields growing poppies (there`s a lot of detail I`m leaving out here). He started to cry and asked me to pull over so he could get out, I apologized for any offense I may have caused and he said my only offense was my ignorance to what`s happening to other people and how I could just laugh and be happy not knowing. He never returned to work, and I never saw him again.

Unfortunately the majority of people from these countries just outright hate us. To such an extent I don`t mention that I`m American to some people because it sparks anger and distrust.

I will say this, not all of them were like this but the ones that weren`t kept to them self’s for fear of being singled out and did not speak with me openly. Only a very few (foreign) devout Muslims have ever confided in me so I`ve only seen the tip of the ice burg. Just to get the story straight this "hate" didn`t have to do with religion or nationality it was mostly what I`d consider "brain washing/mental conditioning" done over decades while we focused our efforts elsewhere. It’s their society that gets exploded and used to manipulate them that’s what makes it hard to paint a target, they’re like zebra stripes to a lion (I know the Zebra thing is a myth but you get what I’m saying).

Another important point about our ignorance of their culture became obvious to me when the city of Toronto commissioned a Muslim artist to paint a mural but he painted a Jihad (apparently a holy war against non-Muslims). No one realized what it said/meant at first, but it wasn`t long until someone wrote into the news. I think Toronto should keep it up as a reminder of their objective and as a symbol of what to look out for in their culture. It`s also a reminder of how much these extremist have already infiltrated us and are exploiting the freedoms in our culture.

I`m so sorry for all the lives lost in Orlando, it`s truly a tragedy. It`s deeply saddening and terrible.


Yes it is a sad story. Very sad. That said, it seems he made a decent decision (hopefully) not to act on his impulses.
I am going to draw a parallel here to the gang and gang culture here. People can choose to let the rage build inside, feel victimized and that the world owes them, till they are overwhelmed with hatred. Or they can take the steps to improve their lives. Un recognized by him, maybe you is that he had that chance presented to him when he got into Canada (i believe). He had a chance to make a better life for himself and maybe some of his family.

This may sound cold, but I really don`t care why they "hate us" or why they want to kill us. I just know that they do. I do know that there are at least 49 families that are going thru hell right now for absolutely no good reason. The cops and first responders will get cisd and sent on their way. A ton will end up quitting a job they loved, losing spouses, losing sleep due to nightmares and family problems. Many more people will have years of rehab to try to get back to "normal" some may never.

I just watched an interview with a survivor that was shot 4 times.

Nope, I really don`t care why they hate us....... This was an attack on America, I do know that.
 
The 48th victim of the Pulse Orlando mass shooting has been identified as Akyra Monet Murray, 18.

Murray, who was from Philadelphia, was in Orlando with her family, celebrating her graduation from West Catholic Preparatory High School. Her mother, Natalie Murray, she was on the phone with her wounded daughter as she cowered in a bathroom stall hiding from the shooter.

Natalie Murray said Akyra sent a text message at 2 a.m. on Sunday, pleading for her parents to pick her up from the nightclub because there had been a shooting.

Moments later, Akyra called her mother screaming, saying she was losing a lot of blood.

The 18-year-old was an honors student who graduated third in her class last week. She was headed to Mercyhurst College in Erie on a full basketball scholarship.
 
Here we go again. Nothing will change. We all know it. We take a pill to make it go away and onto the next massacre. Medication and talk is all we do. We don`t mourn, we medicate. We don`t act on red flags, we turn away. We don`t hunt with AR15s but we buy them as easy as buying a hamburger. We give speeches, but mean nothing. We write in forums, we go back to pretending. We say prayers, but ignore the cause. On it goes.
 
Here we go again. Nothing will change. We all know it. We take a pill to make it go away and onto the next massacre. Medication and talk is all we do. We don`t mourn, we medicate. We don`t act on red flags, we turn away. We don`t hunt with AR15s but we buy them as easy as buying a hamburger. We give speeches, but mean nothing. We write in forums, we go back to pretending. We say prayers, but ignore the cause. On it goes.

So you`re blaming guns and not the bad guy???

So then by that logic we need to ban rice cookers, diesel fuel and fertilizer
 
I`ve bought an awful lot of hamburgers without having to obtain a licence (with a background check) just to get one, signing paper work and being run through the system every time I buy one, and having to wait a day between buying the hamburger and actually being able to pick it up and eat it
 
Not to blame guns, but the process to buy guns is ... The FBI knew this guy was a nut, but he was allowed to buy guns and unlimited ammo. It takes a little more foresight to buy a pressure cooker and fill it with shrapnel and explosives. This guy just walked in to a store and ponied up some bucks and killed 49 innocent people. Oh yeah, they wouldn`t sell him body armor. That was sweet.
 
Not to blame guns, but the process to buy guns is ... The FBI knew this guy was a nut, but he was allowed to buy guns and unlimited ammo. It takes a little more foresight to buy a pressure cooker and fill it with shrapnel and explosives. This guy just walked in to a store and ponied up some bucks and killed 49 innocent people. Oh yeah, they wouldn`t sell him body armor. That was sweet.

You may want to see why the investigation on him was shut down (see a post I made). You may also want to look up why the fbi didn`t notify local le or his employer (security co that had us contracts). Many of the same reasons that fbi/doj etc are no longer allowed to use words that are considered hurtful or inflamitory...

While I completely agree this guy should in no way be able to have gotten fire arms or permits as well, but the system wasn`t allowed to work.

Taking away guns is as "knee jerk" as banning all Muslims.......... But it gives both sides fodder for their cannons.
 
Why do these things keep happening? Yes, at the forefront you have the mentally disturbed person to blame, however, the ease of getting a high powered weapon in this country is ALSO to blame. Had this person not been able to get his hands on that useless (for civilians) high powered weapon, there would have been many more people coming out of that club. I truly believe these are signs...if you look at how these senseless killings have been getting worse, it all points to one reason! That reason being those high powered guns. When will people finally get it? Those guns have no use or practical purpose in the U.S.
 
I`m always amused at how a radical ideology and mental health are just glossed over so the focus can turn to the weapon of choice. France has far more restrictive firearms laws than we do, yet they had a massacre twice as bad. how is that possible?

Where there is a will, there is a way. Over 3k people were murdered with what started out as box cutters. McVeigh blew up a building with fertilizer. A marathon was blown up with pressure cookers.

We should probably start banning high powered sports cars as well. Many people are killed every year in street racing accidents and nobody needs anything more than an economy car anyway
 
Fertilizer, pressure cookers, cars....those things were MADE into a weapon...AR-15 IS already a weapon. A civilian will NEVER NEED a useless weapon like that. I call it useless because it serves no purpose for a civilian.
 
But the results were the same....people died. It`s all about saving lives right?

Tons of people hunt with those rifles, so no, they aren`t useless. In fact a large number of "hunting rifles" are more powerful than an AR-15. The argument that their sole purpose is to kill people is absolutely absurd. The last thing I want to do with mine is kill a person.

You want to ban all AR-15`s, ok.....we can talk after we start deporting all people with radical Islamic thoughts/speech because I find that to be a far great threat to our national security and way of life here.
 
I`ve know tons of hunters and not one of them ever used any type of weapon like that for hunting. Maybe in your area of the country they are good for whatever they are hunting but in my experience they are useless. And you are right, while there are more powerful rifles out there...those rifles aren`t being used for these attacks for a reason.
 
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