The right sealant for my tastes
- Thread starter GBynum
- Start date
GBynum said:
So long as you are not using medium or stronger clays, you should be fine. I like to clay about twice a year or maybe three times a year.
Another thing I like to do is when decontaminating my car, during the B step which is the acid step, while the acid is dwelling on the paint doing its job, I will clay that spot (the acid is actually a decent lube). Claying an area with the acid on it is clay using clay on steroids. If you do the same, toss that piece of clay when you are done, it will be in pretty rough shape after the acid.
Accumulator said:
Sorry to come back to this after so long...
How do I tell if it's truly sealant or wax? You seem to imply here that there are degrees in between. You said that you can't layer a true wax, so if something is "closer to a sealant", can I layer it?
Also is a glaze an LSP or is it like a polish?
Accumulator
Well-known member
BlueBeast14GT- Are you certain that *I* said you can't layer a true wax? If so, then I misspoke as I wouldn't want to generalize like that and the waxes I use *do* layer.
It can be virtually impossible to tell what's a wax/sealant/wax-sealant hybrid. If in doubt, if it lasts pretty long assume it's at least a hybrid (e.g., Collinite stuff). Heh heh, note that FK calls FK1000P a "wax" but it's a sealant. The words "wax" and "sealant" almost become meaningless in the practical sense. I think of it this way- if it's basically synthetic stuff as opposed to" basically natural stuff from a tree" then I think of it as a sealant or a hybrid. And I don't make a big differentiation between sealants and hybrids.
Eh, I don't make a very big deal out of these diffs at all! I bet I usually just think/say/post "LSP" and let that cover all the bases.
"Glaze" is like a temporary LSP, one that's usually water-soluble (i.e., washes off even just in the rain). But note that Meguiar's calls their glazes "pure polishes" these days (they didn't used to back in the day) so who knows what a given term means?!? It's another case of where different people use certain words *so* differently that those words lose (their proper, singular) meanings, which drives me nuts.
It can be virtually impossible to tell what's a wax/sealant/wax-sealant hybrid. If in doubt, if it lasts pretty long assume it's at least a hybrid (e.g., Collinite stuff). Heh heh, note that FK calls FK1000P a "wax" but it's a sealant. The words "wax" and "sealant" almost become meaningless in the practical sense. I think of it this way- if it's basically synthetic stuff as opposed to" basically natural stuff from a tree" then I think of it as a sealant or a hybrid. And I don't make a big differentiation between sealants and hybrids.
Eh, I don't make a very big deal out of these diffs at all! I bet I usually just think/say/post "LSP" and let that cover all the bases.
"Glaze" is like a temporary LSP, one that's usually water-soluble (i.e., washes off even just in the rain). But note that Meguiar's calls their glazes "pure polishes" these days (they didn't used to back in the day) so who knows what a given term means?!? It's another case of where different people use certain words *so* differently that those words lose (their proper, singular) meanings, which drives me nuts.
bunkeroo26
New member
Muddy waters here, especially when you through in synthetic waxes. What does that mean!?
In my opinion all waxes are a sealant add they seal the surface, but not all sealants are waxes.
This is like the debate about polymers, which that name means almost nothing. Every detailing liquid is a polymer of sorts. That being said, many polymer based chemicals perform exceptional.
I agree that we need some new naming conventions, to adequately describe this new technology that we are experiencing.
In my opinion all waxes are a sealant add they seal the surface, but not all sealants are waxes.
This is like the debate about polymers, which that name means almost nothing. Every detailing liquid is a polymer of sorts. That being said, many polymer based chemicals perform exceptional.
I agree that we need some new naming conventions, to adequately describe this new technology that we are experiencing.
Accumulator said:
Now I'm not even sure lol. I thought so, but I could have been wrong. I think I'm confusing myself more the more I learn about this stuff.
Accumulator said:
I think this is part of what threw me. I thought the FK1000P was a wax.
Accumulator said:
Thank you, this helps a lot. It seems like a lot of people have stricter definitions, but they are very hard to follow.
So can I layer a sealant on top of a wax? I'm worried I'll get something that's a wax, thinking it's a sealant, then be unable to seal over it. Plus if I am unable to seal over a wax, then I'd like to avoid it altogether since removing all the wax seems like a huge PITA.
Accumulator said:
Yeah that drives me nuts as well. It makes it really hard to learn this stuff. I think Meguiar's says that a polish is abrasive but a pure polish is not. Yet they's both "safe for clearcoat," as well as their ultimate compound. Sure why the hell not.
That actually leads me to an issue I was thinking about last night. The more I learn about abrasive products, the harder it becomes to distinguish them.
- Is there really a difference between a compound and a polish, or is a compound just more abrasive? A lot of the things people refer to as compounds don't even say compound on the package.
- And do I need to keep polish and compound removal towels separate? Can I use them interchangeably?
- If not, can I at least wash and store them together?
Accumulator
Well-known member
[Wish I could get the QUOTE function to work on this PC, no idea why it won't since the last update....]
BlueBeast14GT- The layering/topping goes the other way- You can put a wax on top of a sealant but you *cannot* put a sealant on top of a wax.
FK1000P should be thought of as a sealant no matter what they call it.
Removing wax isn't all that big a deal- either wash with something really potent or "clean the wax off the paint" with an AIO.
Most anything is "clearcoat safe", it's another of those meaningless terms. GENERALLY, it means "not awfully abrasive", but even some abrasive products (even compounds) are described that way. I mean, really...what is clearcoat- it's just unpigmented PAINT, and you use compounds/polishes/glazes/waxes/whatever on paint, right?
Right, Meg's "pure polishes" are not functionally abrasive.
1. Correct, a compound is just a more aggressive polish, one that generally doesn't finish out ready-to-wax.
2. Generally keep them separate (until you launder them and then it shouldn't matter). But it's OK to use a towel that's contaminated with a polish (mild stuff) to buff off a compound (aggressive stuff) if there's some reason why you'd need to do that (I'd just have plenty of towels and always use a fresh one).
3. Yeah, I launder/store all my MFs together, though to keep things organized I have one bin (actually I use plastic trash cans on wheeled dollies) for "good" MFs, another for "not-so-good" MFs, another for "glass" MFs, and a fourth one for "wash/dry" MFs (and then a similar setup for my cotton towels).
BlueBeast14GT- The layering/topping goes the other way- You can put a wax on top of a sealant but you *cannot* put a sealant on top of a wax.
FK1000P should be thought of as a sealant no matter what they call it.
Removing wax isn't all that big a deal- either wash with something really potent or "clean the wax off the paint" with an AIO.
Most anything is "clearcoat safe", it's another of those meaningless terms. GENERALLY, it means "not awfully abrasive", but even some abrasive products (even compounds) are described that way. I mean, really...what is clearcoat- it's just unpigmented PAINT, and you use compounds/polishes/glazes/waxes/whatever on paint, right?
Right, Meg's "pure polishes" are not functionally abrasive.
1. Correct, a compound is just a more aggressive polish, one that generally doesn't finish out ready-to-wax.
2. Generally keep them separate (until you launder them and then it shouldn't matter). But it's OK to use a towel that's contaminated with a polish (mild stuff) to buff off a compound (aggressive stuff) if there's some reason why you'd need to do that (I'd just have plenty of towels and always use a fresh one).
3. Yeah, I launder/store all my MFs together, though to keep things organized I have one bin (actually I use plastic trash cans on wheeled dollies) for "good" MFs, another for "not-so-good" MFs, another for "glass" MFs, and a fourth one for "wash/dry" MFs (and then a similar setup for my cotton towels).
Ok that's what I thought, cannot seal over wax. So can I still think of hybrids as sealants? As in, if I use a hybrid, can I seal over it later?
Well yeah I'm not going to use a contaminated towel for a different job. I just meant as far as storage and laundry. Like I would use a towel for compound, wash it, then the next week maybe use it for polish. Or visa versa.
Well yeah I'm not going to use a contaminated towel for a different job. I just meant as far as storage and laundry. Like I would use a towel for compound, wash it, then the next week maybe use it for polish. Or visa versa.
Accumulator
Well-known member
BlueBeast14GT- I would *not* try applying a sealant over a hybrid unless I knew for certain that it'd work OK.
Accumulator
Well-known member
BlueBeast14GT- Yeah,experience, and finding out what worked/didn't for others can hopefully keep most of those experiences positive.
bunkeroo26
New member
2. http://www.duragloss.com/Exterior-Polishes/Polish---Cleaner/8-oz.---Duragloss-PC-(Polish---Cleaner)
3. http://www.duragloss.com/Pre-Polishing-Agents/Swirl-Mark-Remover/8-oz.---Duragloss-SMR-(Swirl-Mark-Remover)
1.http://www.duragloss.com/Pre-Polishing-Agents/Polish-Bonding-Agent/8-oz.---Duragloss-PBA-(Polish-Bonding-Agent)
Some companies like Duragloss really confuse this issue now.
Their terminology had stopped me from issuing from them every time.
Look at this product link 1. above.
Bonding a polish like an epoxy?
Polishes just fix paint, why is bonding needed?
Product 2 is a polish but says that it Makes a coating.
Obviously, there is different terminology being used.
Product 3 is listed as "pre polish agents"
It is titled a swirl remover, but had polish and wax in it?!
Why would I wax pre polish?
There is a reason why you can be easily confused....
It seems companies are confused themselves.
3. http://www.duragloss.com/Pre-Polishing-Agents/Swirl-Mark-Remover/8-oz.---Duragloss-SMR-(Swirl-Mark-Remover)
1.http://www.duragloss.com/Pre-Polishing-Agents/Polish-Bonding-Agent/8-oz.---Duragloss-PBA-(Polish-Bonding-Agent)
Some companies like Duragloss really confuse this issue now.
Their terminology had stopped me from issuing from them every time.
Look at this product link 1. above.
Bonding a polish like an epoxy?
Polishes just fix paint, why is bonding needed?
Product 2 is a polish but says that it Makes a coating.
Obviously, there is different terminology being used.
Product 3 is listed as "pre polish agents"
It is titled a swirl remover, but had polish and wax in it?!
Why would I wax pre polish?
There is a reason why you can be easily confused....
It seems companies are confused themselves.
bunkeroo26
New member
This lack of terminology had stopped me from
purchasing duragloss. It's not that I don't think they work...
I just don't like how they are described.
Swirl remover with wax, sounds like a filler glaze.
Polishes bonding like epoxy don't sound like polishes.
Heck, I have hard enough time getting polish residue off.
Why bond a polish? Because it isn't a polish.
purchasing duragloss. It's not that I don't think they work...
I just don't like how they are described.
Swirl remover with wax, sounds like a filler glaze.
Polishes bonding like epoxy don't sound like polishes.
Heck, I have hard enough time getting polish residue off.
Why bond a polish? Because it isn't a polish.
WWWW-WillyWallyWashWax said:
I don't think they're confused, I think it's all marketing BS. How can we sell more polish? Say it protects, bonds, etc. Joe Consumer won't know the difference, he'll just hear a bunch of buzz words that he associates with a nice looking car. As for the guys that want to really know what they're buying so they can do it right, well they aren't the majority of the market, so forget them. It's the same reason everything has "natural" flavoring now. You add a spritz of lemon juice and legally it's natural, so now you can sell your sugar filled tea to the health-conscious people too. It's all corporate bs.
bunkeroo26
New member
You are correct, I do not think that the products don't work.
It is their choice of marketing that turns me off.
I think that I would like some products of theirs,
I just am showing some examples of greyed waters in these discussions
It is their choice of marketing that turns me off.
I think that I would like some products of theirs,
I just am showing some examples of greyed waters in these discussions
Accumulator
Well-known member
I almost quit buying Meguiar's products over some uhm....creative use of certain words, and also over some, uhm...philosphical matters, but I decided to not cut off my nose to spite my face. I'm gonna be the same with DuraGloss, not that I've ever tried their stuff (though I'm seriously considering their #252/253 for tires when I run out of Z16). Speaking of Zaino, there's another company I could get all huffy about, but I'm glad I went ahead and tried their Z16 and ZAIO.
bunkeroo26
New member
It would help us if there was a convention
for terminology that was used industry wide.
This makes it hard for the customers to understand
what we are saying, or how it diets from what others have said.
So now do we need to think of bonded polishes as seals?
How do we decide what is fluff, and what we define products as.
Is X a polish and Y a seal?
We can easily come up with ingredients that define classes.
Si, that's a type of seal as SiC is a coating chemical.
I guess this is hard, when companies won't divulge ingredient lists.
for terminology that was used industry wide.
This makes it hard for the customers to understand
what we are saying, or how it diets from what others have said.
So now do we need to think of bonded polishes as seals?
How do we decide what is fluff, and what we define products as.
Is X a polish and Y a seal?
We can easily come up with ingredients that define classes.
Si, that's a type of seal as SiC is a coating chemical.
I guess this is hard, when companies won't divulge ingredient lists.
Accumulator
Well-known member
wwww-willywallywashwax- Plus, I see all sorts of personal-gain incentives for keeping the terminology hazy/plastic; easier to make, uhm...."characteristics" sound like "features" , and easier to sound all-knowing too 
Pretty obvious (eh, at least it seems so to me) that many companies don't really *want* their customers really thinking this stuff through and knowing what's going on; easier to market [stuff] to a certain not-so-knowledgeable demographic.
Heh heh, a few years ago I had a bit of a go-around with a *VERY* highly respected expert (no worries, he and I get along OK overall, though he thinks I'm pretty extreme about this stuff) over the specific product claim "eliminates swirls". Specifically, the word "eliminate". My take: "Hey pal, grab a dictionary and look it up. It means what it means.". He simply would not give in and, well...OK, I understand which side was buttering his bread. Doesn't use the word the sam way at his current employer though.
Pretty obvious (eh, at least it seems so to me) that many companies don't really *want* their customers really thinking this stuff through and knowing what's going on; easier to market [stuff] to a certain not-so-knowledgeable demographic.
Heh heh, a few years ago I had a bit of a go-around with a *VERY* highly respected expert (no worries, he and I get along OK overall, though he thinks I'm pretty extreme about this stuff) over the specific product claim "eliminates swirls". Specifically, the word "eliminate". My take: "Hey pal, grab a dictionary and look it up. It means what it means.". He simply would not give in and, well...OK, I understand which side was buttering his bread. Doesn't use the word the sam way at his current employer though.