Small polishers vs big polishers

J

JBM

New member
On a lot of show and shine pictures, a lot of you tube vids , a lot of talk on the forums it seems the focus on multi step polishing is the 21mm long throw, maybe a 15mm as well. People will say to get in tighter areas.

Seems to me totally over looked is mention of smaller pads, or tools like the pe8 or the "small rupes".

Just an observation but im in the middle of a 2 or 3 step process on a 14' jeep GC and the time im spending with a 3" pad is double or triple that of a 5 or 6" pad. I actually wish I had a pe8 with a 2" pad.

Take a look at the back of the jeep,( not the one im working on)

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The whole back I needed to use a 3" pad, the bumper, everything.

Look at the line above the wheel well and the bottom of the door.

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On a multi step a small tool has to be used imo or the body line will get thinned or worse, right? I suppose lines could be taped off in a pinch.

I spent more time on the front bumper with a small pad I think then I did the hood.


Im just making an observation, wondering why little tools arnt talked about more.
 
I use my GG6 with 3" backing plate for front, back, A pillars, mirrors, headlights and any small area. With the RUPES UHS (paint) & Surbuf (headlight) pads, does really well. Looking forward to the RUPES Nano to get in even smaller areas.

That being said, you can have my 15 mm & 21 mm long throw polishers when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers. ;)
 
I think slot of it comes down to personal preference. It also maters if your doing your own work or detailing for a living. I prefer the 3" rupes over my 15mm because I have a lot of curvy panels and it's hard to get a flat bite and keep is spinning. I never though I say this but I'm buying an ibird when they release it. Hoping my connect membership helps with the wallet ache.
 
I agree JBM. There's way too much talk about 21's right now and I think most new guys end up scratching their heads when they finally take their 21 out of the box and run into smaller panels. I find myself doing most of my DA work with a Flex 3401 + 4 inch backing plate for all of those reasons you listed. The smaller pad size and forced rotation is perfect for most areas and means I can keep working without stopping or bogging down the backing plate from spinning. Anything smaller and it's either the PE8 or Porter Cable with a 3 inch backing plate.

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Although if you're lucky enough to have access to air....the TA50 is an overlooked polisher.

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Ray,

when it comes to the PE8 , have you run into any small areas where it has been uncomfortable to work with the PE8? i'm trying to decide between a PE8 with 1" BP and enough pads VS the new Rupes kit coming out which may have features i might not need(at least yet). I already have a 3" setup, so i'd like to have a setup for 1" BP and pads. I'm just curious if the PE8's body could get in the way for some reason vs the small body of the Ibrid/Nano.

Back to the OP's topic, i find myself using my PC with a 3-4" pad quite often during a job due to all the pillars, ridges on SUV roofs, raised flat sections on doors and especially bumpers. #smallpolisherlivesmatter
 
Thanks for making me want a PE8 even more. Maybe I can justify it, I had some gel coat work done on the bottom and transom area on my boat and they left it just wet sanded. The areas are small and very tight to get at but will need the power of a rotary to take out the sanding marks. yeah yeah that's it I dont want it I need it, I got to talk to the wife tonight during diner start making my case.
 
been eyeing a pe8, curious what the size is vs rupes mini. when i purchased the mini, i thought it was going to be a tiny machine.
 
donbeezy said:
been eyeing a pe8, curious what the size is vs rupes mini. when i purchased the mini, i thought it was going to be a tiny machine.
Click to expand...

It's much smaller. 1'' pads are supported(there are a few different BP sizes) and you can use rotary extensions to really get into some tight areas. I asked about it a while back because the price tag is tempting vs. purchasing the new Rupes that releases this/next month. I got a chance to play with it some and I'm glad I didn't get it - some of the other users around here pointed out that it's just an on/off switch as opposed to a variable start trigger, which matters a lot. It's still a very nice machine but that's a big deal to me. I want the trigger and the other features of the Nano.
 
heisenberg said:
It's much smaller. 1'' pads are supported(there are a few different BP sizes) and you can use rotary extensions to really get into some tight areas. I asked about it a while back because the price tag is tempting vs. purchasing the new Rupes that releases this/next month. I got a chance to play with it some and I'm glad I didn't get it - some of the other users around here pointed out that it's just an on/off switch as opposed to a variable start trigger, which matters a lot. It's still a very nice machine but that's a big deal to me. I want the trigger and the other features of the Nano.
Click to expand...

is the speed controlled like you control it on the PC? speed dial and just on/off switch then?
 
Migue said:
is the speed controlled like you control it on the PC? speed dial and just on/off switch then?
Click to expand...

Yep. Switch is on the side in kind of a weird location, IMO, but then a normal speed dial.

Here are the speeds and associated RPM:

1 - 1300
2 - 1600
3 - 2100
4 - 2800
5 - 3400
6 - 3900
 
I almost always mention what is used for all the intricate areas and often include pics. I agree, those areas take a lot of added time to do.











 
A good Rotary with an extension will handle MOST things and have soft start from 600 rpm which is important so you dont hurt something accidently...
The extension places the body of the Rotary out of the way for most areas, except for those tiny places that you see Chad working on above..
Great post and pics, Chad, thanks !!!

What you have to ask yourself is how many times will I need that beautifully made tiny tool vs how many times do I just need a $6.00 extension on a Rotary?

I leave my extension on my Makita all the time and it takes all of a few seconds to change backing plates from the normal 5" to anything smaller..
And I will never have to worry about getting pad rotation and can start off easy at 600rpm...

Or, you can get some M105 and polish out some, not all, places with a soft towel by hand...
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
A good Rotary with an extension will handle MOST things and have soft start from 600 rpm which is important so you dont hurt something accidently...
The extension places the body of the Rotary out of the way for most areas, except for those tiny places that you see Chad working on above..
Great post and pics, Chad, thanks !!!

What you have to ask yourself is how many times will I need that beautifully made tiny tool vs how many times do I just need a $6.00 extension on a Rotary?

I leave my extension on my Makita all the time and it takes all of a few seconds to change backing plates from the normal 5" to anything smaller..
And I will never have to worry about getting pad rotation and can start off easy at 600rpm...

Or, you can get some M105 and polish out some, not all, places with a soft towel by hand...
Dan F
Click to expand...

That's true. A smaller rotary polisher like the PE8 is definitely a luxury tool since you can do just about everything it can do with a full size rotary with an extension and small backing plate. The PE8 is just a little easier to handle, especially for long periods of time. But for someone who doesn't think they'll ever need a full size rotary, it's a great buy.

heisenberg said:
Yep. Switch is on the side in kind of a weird location, IMO, but then a normal speed dial.
Click to expand...

The switch does take a little getting used to. But I do like how easy it is to lock the trigger so I can maneuver the polisher in awkward angles without worrying about a trigger. But I can see how someone can find it awkward since it's the only polisher we carry with that type of trigger.

donbeezy said:
been eyeing a pe8, curious what the size is vs rupes mini. when i purchased the mini, i thought it was going to be a tiny machine.
Click to expand...

The actual polisher bodies are very close to the same size.

Migue said:
Ray,

when it comes to the PE8 , have you run into any small areas where it has been uncomfortable to work with the PE8? i'm trying to decide between a PE8 with 1" BP and enough pads VS the new Rupes kit coming out which may have features i might not need(at least yet). I already have a 3" setup, so i'd like to have a setup for 1" BP and pads. I'm just curious if the PE8's body could get in the way for some reason vs the small body of the Ibrid/Nano.

Back to the OP's topic, i find myself using my PC with a 3-4" pad quite often during a job due to all the pillars, ridges on SUV roofs, raised flat sections on doors and especially bumpers. #smallpolisherlivesmatter
Click to expand...

I've never run into an area that's been uncomfortable with the PE8. If you're planning on getting one, I'd highly recommend the extension.
 
Just one more thing -- adding an extension that will space out about 1-3/4" Plus the height of the backing plate And the pad and now you are easily 2" away from the machine body, so the dynamics will be a little different for a minute until you get used to it..

It is all a matter of balance between speed and control, not sheer strength fighting it when it wants to wander away, you need to bring it back into balance with your hands and arms...

The slower 600 rpm speed will also be very helpful getting used to it too, and its totally the best speed to start a section of any panel on and not sling product all over the place as well..

It Will be much easier to get used to it compared to the first time you turned on your Flex3401VRG and realized it rotated counter-clockwise, remember? :)

This is why I would rather use the bigger machine or any machine that slow starts at 600rpm whenever possible...

The bigger heavier machine will absorb a lot of the squirrely effect because of its weight and help you get better acquainted with this new addition to your process..

After awhile it will be like nothing to use that machine or any machine with a spacer on it... I promise you... :)

Just looked - the Makita is on Sale and its less than the PE8 !!! :)
Good Luck !
Dan F
 
If the PE8 hits a sale im all over it. The GG6 is ok with a 3" but time for some surgical equipment.
 
Something to consider if you are going to use a small diameter pad on a rotary...

A rotary gets the majority of its polishing power from edge speed. The smaller you make the pad, the less edge speed you have... A 3-inch pad will travel 1/2 the speed of a 6-inch pad at the same RPM. A 2-inch pad will travel 1/3 the speed at the same RPM and a 1-inch pad will travel 1/6 the speed at the same RPM.

When designing the Nano - a polisher built from the ground up for spot correction - this was a primary consideration. The end result is a tool that will run at 5000 RPM at max speed. This sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that the pad diameter in rotary mode is 1.2 inches (approx.).

So a 1.2-inch pad at 5000 RPM is the same edge speed as a 6-inch pad at 1000 RPM. The smaller the pad, the higher the RPM needs to be on a rotary to maintain polishing power.

On a random orbital polisher, the opposite is true. Most of the pad speed comes from the orbital action. The beauty of an orbital polisher is that orbital speed is the same at any point on the pad.

Just some things to consider :)
 
Todd@RUPES said:
Something to consider if you are going to use a small diameter pad on a rotary...

A rotary gets the majority of its polishing power from edge speed. The smaller you make the pad, the less edge speed you have... A 3-inch pad will travel 1/2 the speed of a 6-inch pad at the same RPM. A 2-inch pad will travel 1/3 the speed at the same RPM and a 1-inch pad will travel 1/6 the speed at the same RPM.

When designing the Nano - a polisher built from the ground up for spot correction - this was a primary consideration. The end result is a tool that will run at 5000 RPM at max speed. This sounds like a lot, but keep in mind that the pad diameter in rotary mode is 1.2 inches (approx.).

So a 1.2-inch pad at 5000 RPM is the same edge speed as a 6-inch pad at 1000 RPM. The smaller the pad, the higher the RPM needs to be on a rotary to maintain polishing power.

On a random orbital polisher, the opposite is true. Most of the pad speed comes from the orbital action. The beauty of an orbital polisher is that orbital speed is the same at any point on the pad.

Just some things to consider :)
Click to expand...

Todd, what is the starting RPM of the tool and is the trigger variable or just an on/off? :)
 
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