Second Thoughts On Clearkote Products
- Thread starter Gadfly
- Start date
DETAILKING
New member
geekysteve said:
----> You forgot to ad that is the longest lasting deepest shining product in the industry. Everyone else claims that so you might as well too....just some marketing advice......LOL
geekysteve said:
--------> It can also mean VERY low or no wax content......
detailbarn
Professional Detailer
bretfraz , I don't take kindly to you accusing me or any one else on this board being given "preferential treatment" in exchange for a good review of ANY product.
Clearkote as a company have done nothing more than provide excellent service and great products. My statement that you took of Clearkote's site was nothing more than my honest impression of the products.
As far as any one stuping autopians , come one man look at the scence of the world you really think any one is taking the time to get over on people about detailing products.
bretfraz said:
Show me anything recent, Bret. I've considered it a dead issue for a long time. The only time I can think of mentioning it is when someone is suprised by the low grade and I let them know why. Nothing wrong with clarifying an issue. I just resent what I consider to be continued hostility by you towards me, especially in light of something that had nothing to do with you in the first place. I understand Steve is your friend and natually you will stick up for him. Hell, I'll stick up for Steve also. Other than a few errors in scoring, which is to be expected with such a large undertaking, I consider his Wax Test to be a valuable part of my detailing resources. I also appreciate the fact that he used pictures of several cars I detailed on the back cove...all waxed with #26, btw
I'd prefer we put this completely behind us and get along, because I have no problems with you otherwise. Even in light of some of the comments you've made, I still consider you to be a well respected member of the board. I even remember when you used my neighbor's horribly waxed truck as an avatar!
I just want to make sure that no one would even think I would give biased reviews because I may be getting something extra on the side. Like I've pointed out several times, I can get Meguiars Final Inspection for $18 a gallon and Quikshine is $38 a gallon (plus $8 shipping, so I buy quarts for $11 at the shop and save $2). In my detailing business, I go through a lot of detail spray and I wouldn't use something more expensive unless it was worth it.
I can assure you that I'd already been using Clearkote products for more than 6 months when I was contacted about my willingness to test Vanilla Moose...not for Autopia, but because Mr. Glass wanted real world testing by someone completely independent. He wanted my honest opinion of the product and no mention of Autopia was even implied. I posted the review on my own because I was so impressed with the product.
There is no way I would jeopardize my standing at Autopia by giving favorable reviews to substandard products because I know that when I or other long time members suggest a product, others will buy them. Last thing I want is a bunch of angry e-mails and PMs because I recommended a turd of a product.
imported_BretFraz
New member
Scottwax said:Show me anything recent, Bret. I've considered it a dead issue for a long time. The only time I can think of mentioning it is when someone is suprised by the low grade and I let them know why. Nothing wrong with clarifying an issue. I just resent what I consider to be continued hostility by you towards me, especially in light of something that had nothing to do with you in the first place. I understand Steve is your friend and natually you will stick up for him. Hell, I'll stick up for Steve also. Other than a few errors in scoring, which is to be expected with such a large undertaking, I consider his Wax Test to be a valuable part of my detailing resources. I also appreciate the fact that he used pictures of several cars I detailed on the back cove...all waxed with #26, btw
The last "conversation" we had about #26 was here:
http://www.autopia.org/forums/showt...e=18&highlight=wax test meguiars&pagenumber=5
And if you read my response closely you'll see I was responding to what I thought was unneccessary defensiveness from you regarding other products. The fact that you decided my response was only to come to Steve's aid shows you completely misread what I was saying. You were the one who brought up that issue in this topic, not me. I didn't understand your initial response to me in that thread and I don't understand your first response to me in this one.
We seem to be going in circles when it comes to your perception of my motivations. I'm usually pretty darned clear about what I mean and few people misunderstand what I'm saying. But sometimes a person is speaking Language A and other people hear Language B.
My involvement in this thread has nothing to do with Meguiar's #26, The Wax Test, your opinions of The Wax Test results, or anything related. My interest is solely about Clearkote, the odd and inexplicable interest in what seems to me a very ordinary product, and the possibility that community members are hyping a product line from which they derive income and are purposely hiding the facts of their personal involvement. The fact that there have NOT been any meaningful analysis of Clearkote products is, IMO, very strange. I've read precious few negative comments about the product line and I think that's unusual for this community. Is something going on that the community at large does not know about? Are Autopian being misled about Clearkote by people who have some amount of financial interest in the company aka "quid pro quo"? I don't know but someone should raise these questions and I decided that someone would be me. I guess we'll all see where this goes, if anywhere.
SergC
wax on...stress off...
Bretfraz,
You raised some good points,but You did not tested the product yourself,nor the other very respectful members of these Forum:
SRL and Geekysteve.
Test the product, post an opinion and then it would be interesting.
In Scottwaxs defence.
I'm an ordinary member, and like many others, I don't care, if he does or does not make any profit or anything else of these or any other products he talks about here.
I usually make my own tests.I like - I keep,I don't like - through it in to the trash.
I have all the ClearKote products and I like some of them .
They do not replace the Zaino,Klasse,Pinnacle Souveran in my book,but it's a good line of product and I'm glad to have it in my collection.
And I'm thankful to Scottwax for these and everybody who gives heads up on new stuff to play with...
Regards,
Serg Conon
You raised some good points,but You did not tested the product yourself,nor the other very respectful members of these Forum:
SRL and Geekysteve.
Test the product, post an opinion and then it would be interesting.
In Scottwaxs defence.
I'm an ordinary member, and like many others, I don't care, if he does or does not make any profit or anything else of these or any other products he talks about here.
I usually make my own tests.I like - I keep,I don't like - through it in to the trash.
I have all the ClearKote products and I like some of them .
They do not replace the Zaino,Klasse,Pinnacle Souveran in my book,but it's a good line of product and I'm glad to have it in my collection.
And I'm thankful to Scottwax for these and everybody who gives heads up on new stuff to play with...
Regards,
Serg Conon
imported_Larry A
New member
Okay Steve Bret and Scott lets kiss and make up With Nick T you guys are the experts Lets do a test on Clearkote and see how good it is and if its worth the extra money
Gadfly
New member
Indeed! What have I wrought upon us? :argue
raymond_ho2002
New member
Well, bretfraz, if it makes you feel any better, I'm one of the guys who's not exactly having the best of times with vanilla moose :-D
I'm meeting up with Carguy tomorrow and giving him some, maybe he'll have something to say about it..
I'm meeting up with Carguy tomorrow and giving him some, maybe he'll have something to say about it..
rayjicka said:
Yeah, way to go rayjicka!
Well, I might as well add my $.02 worth into the mix. Mr. Glass was kind enough to send me some samples, which I greatly appreciated. I did my typical 2-3 hours of testing to see how the products responded to different conditions.
I discovered that MW and VM do not like to be applied with a terrycloth applicator. It seemed to be very difficult and would not spread evenly. I switched to a foam applicator and they went on much easier. I compared the application of the products to other liquid waxes I have on hand, including Liquid Souveran, Meg #26, Mothers Pure Carnauba, Meg #20 and Pinnacle Creme Glaz. Of these, Liquid Souveran was the easiest to apply, followed by Mothers, Meguiar's #26, them MW. I base this on how easily the wax flows under the applicator and creates a uniform coating on the paint.
Ease of removal is a different story. Liquid Souveran is not as easy to remove as it is to apply. This seems to be where MW and VM perform very well. The solvent flashes very quickly creating a light film. On removal, I'd rate the top three I tested as VM/MW, Mothers and Meg #26.
Now, here's where the subjective part comes in... which wax looks better and lasts longer. I won't rate Pinnacle Creme Glaz, because I don't think they're making it any more, and it is only so-so. Pinnacle Liquid Souveran is great if you rub it long enough. It unfortunately leaves a strange film that looks a little hazy until after the first wash. Meguiar's #20 bites... it never buffs of evenly. From what I could see on my side-by-side test, Mothers PCW, Meguiar's #26 and MW/VM all offered the same level of gloss, depth and slickness on my black 911. No difference that I could see in excellent garage lighting or in the sunlight. No difference that I could feel with my hand.
I can't comment on durability, except to say that most carnauba waxes are about the same: 4-6 weeks tops! So, why bother trying to rate them?
If what people like about VM/WM is that you can apply it in the sun, then that's great. It's a good solution for detailers and people who don't have a garage.
db
Interesting. Now I will share some of my own personal thoughts and experiences regarding Clearkote products. 1. If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it. Simple. 2. If it separates, give it a couple of shakes.(most of the products I have seen recommend this) Simple. 3. Yes I read recomendations on this board regarding Clearkote products. I decided to spend my hard earned greenbacks on it. The product VM is beyond my expectations. My black truck went to the most beautiful deep black finish. It looks two different shades of black where it hasn't been applied. I was using Zaino previously. Big difference between the two. Would I have ever heard of VM or Clearkote products if someone had not made a recomendation? No. Do I feel these folks were honest about these products? Yes. And I would have been out in the cold without them. Will other products do the same? I don't know, but I do know that Clearkotes VM works for me. 4. Scottwax - I had the priviledge of meeting him about a month ago. He came out to my home to look at some damage on my truck. Spent about an hour of his time looking at my truck and giving me advise regarding the damage. Did not try to push any product on me, but spent time giving suggestions on how get my problem corrected. Would not take a penny for the knowledge shared or the time spent. He is a true gentleman and a craftsman. He is also an exellent resource on this board. Regarding Clearkote products, I had to ask him where to buy these products in the DFW area. If you are questioning his integrity, you might want to look somewhere else.
Larry
P.s. I was not compensated and have never been compensated by Scott or anyone asscociated with Clearkote Products. Give me a break!
Larry
P.s. I was not compensated and have never been compensated by Scott or anyone asscociated with Clearkote Products. Give me a break!
this brings up something I've been thinking about while reading all of these tests...a "blindfold" method, which is what makes a test valid:
1) Have someone apply X on one side and Y on the other.
2) Have another person evalute everything not knowing what was on either side. This eliminates any bias i.e. one side walmart wax and the other s100.
1) Have someone apply X on one side and Y on the other.
2) Have another person evalute everything not knowing what was on either side. This eliminates any bias i.e. one side walmart wax and the other s100.
bretfraz said:
A few points.
I personally have never done a chemical analysis of any product I use. I test them on my car and other cars I see regularly before rolling them out to all my customer's cars. I haven't seen any such analysis of S100/P21S for example. My main concern is that the products work as advertised and do not hurt the paint. I've been using Quikshine for more than a year and Moose Wax on and off for the same time period. I continue to use them because I am happy with the results. Vanilla Moose is something I've used for a few months now. I like it enough to use it in place of S100 SEC (another excellent product).
If you go through the product review forum you will see I have tested a plethora of detailing products. Before that, I exclusively used Meguiars products. I am not beholden to one product line anymore. I like to experiment and mix and match combinations. Currently, I use Meguiars Body Shop Pro products to level the paint and remove scratches and swirls. I use Vanilla Moose in place of Hand Polish or S100 SEC because I think it makes the paint slicker and wetter looking. I normally use S100 Paste Wax for paint protection. I switch to Moose Wax when no shade is available. I'd say 90% of the cars I do get S100, so on a normal basis, I am using just one Clearkote product on the paint.
You seem to feel that Clearkote is a very ordinary product line. Okay, fine, but don't you think you should try some of their products before you come to that conclusion? I'll send you some if you would like, no obligation. Again, I wouldn't pay more than twice the price for a quick detail spray unless I felt the performance warranted it.
Why so little negative feedback? Could it be that they are good products? How much negative feedback is there for S100/P21S or Souveran? Personally, I like the results I get and really haven't found any drawbacks save for the prices, which I will grant you are higher than average...but then again, people pay $70 for a jar of Souveran.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical. Hell, I was totally sold on Meguiars products for several years and thought nothing else could be better. Now, thanks to this board, I have found a lot of worthy waxes and polishes.
imported_TAZ
New member
I agree with what Bretfraz and the "oldtimers" are saying.
Autopia used to have so much more indepth reviewing. But now it just seems that Autopians jump on bandwagon after bandwagon. Im not saying thats neccesarilly bad.... but I do miss the "good ol days"
Autopia used to have so much more indepth reviewing. But now it just seems that Autopians jump on bandwagon after bandwagon. Im not saying thats neccesarilly bad.... but I do miss the "good ol days"
Steve @ Guru
New member
Even worse than that, Taz, is that when healthy debate pops up now, it does one of 3 things:
1) Turns in to a flame war b/c people take the criticism of the product personally.
2) Get's shut down/closed b/c of #1, thus negating any further discussion, thoughts or insights.
3) People perceive the debate as "attacks" and chime in to try and soften, diffuse or change the discussion.
I *really* miss the old days of solid debates, info, etc. If we're all gonna choose to agree on a product that "works for all autopians", let's pick the cheapest one! We'd all save a lot of $$$! 
1) Turns in to a flame war b/c people take the criticism of the product personally.
2) Get's shut down/closed b/c of #1, thus negating any further discussion, thoughts or insights.
3) People perceive the debate as "attacks" and chime in to try and soften, diffuse or change the discussion.
I *really* miss the old days of solid debates, info, etc.
If we're all gonna choose to agree on a product that "works for all autopians", let's pick the cheapest one! We'd all save a lot of $$$!