Second Thoughts On Clearkote Products

bertfraz you have a good point but in the long run the cream will come to the top. Mere hype will not stand the test of time.



The newbies need to know that the technique is just as important as the product. There is no substitute for years of experience.



IMHO
 
FNG said:
I dont like their pricing either.
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I want to try quicksine and maybe vm, but I too think their pricing is HIGH. I do not put much stock in the "... it is a small company, so the cost of products ect, are high..." since , as an example, other companies that have "great" (I am talking about comparisons of top quality products that have receive high praises from autopia) products like Poorboy have good/competitive prices (and is a small company ).
 
...I found the website and I checked out the rest of the product line and noticed they had a wax that "Contains no silicones, Teflon, alcohol or abrasives." and is said to be "An excellent cleaner/wax used to remove oxidation from all paint, chrome, plastic, gelcoat and fiberglass surfaces." I would assume with no abrasives, it uses a mild chemical cleaner to remove light oxidation.

In any event, I noticed they want $20 for a 16 oz bottle, but I remembered it being cheaper at the ricer shop, so I went by today between details and picked up a bottle for $14. A bit more than the average 16 oz bottle of cleaner wax, but not too pricey. I need to have a good cleaner/wax for customers who only want a 1 step exterior detail but still want a good shine and reasonable durability...
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http://forums.off-topic.net/showthread.php?threadid=242915
 
FYI...i tried to PM you the info first bretfraz as i do not want to get in the middle of this but your PM's were full...however, you do raise some interesting points...
 
bretfraz said:
$14 for a pint of Moose Wax? That's a nice 30% discount. What is that, distributor pricing?



Speaking of distributors, please explain this comment from OT:



It's becoming more and more clear to me that some of the Clearkote proponents are receiving some sort of preferential treatment from Clearkote in exchange for their positive commentary. Whether that treatment is in the form of a large discount, free products, or the financial benefits of being a distributor of their products, something is going on behind the scenes and Autopians are possibly being duped and deceived.



All of the "testing" I've read of Clearkote has been anecdotal and subjective. I've seen no MSDS, no chemical anaysis, no objective comparisons of their products.



Obviously Clearkote (a little family owned company) is benefiting greatly from the exposure at Autopia and other places. While I'll never begrudge someone for making a buck, I am a bit offended at the lack of full disclosure from some of their promoters.



If an Autopian has a financial stake in the sale and distribution of a product, the entire community deserves to know the facts of their involvement so that we can decide for ourselves whether or not the info we read about it is being manipulated in some way without our knowledge.
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With all due respect, don't you think that you might be getting a little paranoid? Do you think there is a grand consiparcy engineered by Clearkote to take over the minds of Autopians and force them into using Clearkote?



I bought the show special. I got $85.00 of product for $55.00. Plus, it was shipped for $8.00. I was able to try Vanilla Moose, Moose Wax, Quick Shine, Tire Cleaner, Car Wash and the sample Lens Cleaner that was tossed in. I like the products a lot, so I say so on these boards. Last I checked, that what we are here for. Everett has given me no special pricing, nor has he slipped me a few bucks to say nice things about Clearkote.



In regards to dealers, I know that there are a few dealers here on Autopia. They do not announce themselves since they are not sponsors and therefore do not want to violate the rules regarding dealers here.
 
rayjicka said:
What if you don't want or need all that stuff? Full list, plus $8.00 per order is excessive.:angry
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A pint of Vanilla Moose and packing materials/box weighs about 2 pounds. Would you say that is fair? The cost of UPS Ground from Porter, TX to Annapolis MD is $7.55. He's making $0.45 in shipping profit!! You were right!! He's making a killing at your expense!



You can find this information at UPS.com.
 
Scott P said:
He's making $0.45 in shipping profit!! You were right!! He's making a killing at your expense!
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Not quite. Out of that $0.45 he still has to pay for the box and the packing material. Unless he does all the shipping himself, he has to pay someone to pack it as well.

Shipping IS expensive. It can't be avoided. Do some vendors take advantage? Possibly, but I don't think it is quite as bad as it is made out to be.

Running to the local store isn't free. Going to another store because the first one didn't have what you were after, further increases that cost.



Charles:wavey
 
CharlesW said:
Not quite. Out of that $0.45 he still has to pay for the box and the packing material. Unless he does all the shipping himself, he has to pay someone to pack it as well.

Shipping IS expensive.

Charles:wavey
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I was being sarcastic...;)
 
If Clear Kote has an account with UPS (which im sure), he saves a few bucks for shipping. :D
 

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bretfraz said:
Good find, thanks. I never saw that one. I'll assume for now that this is still Scott's supplier and that his relationship with Clearkote has not changed-improved-expanded in the past 13 months since that post.



That possibly answers one question but the larger issue still looms. More honesty + more disclosure = good for Autopians.
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I've mentioned numerous times I buy Clearkote products locally. I've also let lots of Dallas area Autopians know where the shop is so they can also save on shipping. I've also made no secret that I have received a couple products to try, courtesy of Mr. Glass. He makes no stipulations at all concerning how I review the products, other than I am honest about what I find.



I think I've been right on the money with my reviews about Clearkote products.



And a personal note to you, Bret. You need to get over my criticism of the mistake made in Guru Reports concerning the score of Meguiars #26 wax. It isn't any of your business and I accept Steve's explanation on how it will be handled with the next issue of testing. I never said it was intentional either. I am getting real tired of you taking shots at me ever since I first raised my point in the thread about why Steve may stop using Meguiars products.
 
Scottwax said:
I am getting real tired of you taking shots at me ever since I first raised my point in the thread about why Steve may stop using Meguiars products.
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I agree with that. You've been taking shots at Scottwax for as long as I can remember. Enough already.... Autopia ain't The Flea....
 
The separating issue bothers me a lot. Products usually separate from prolonged settling on the shelf, or due to specific gravity (density) differences under temperature extremes (freezing,etc).



Let's get out our old chemistry books. Most wax formulations are composed a petroleum distillate solvent (carrier), water, an oil for shine, and wax. We all know that "oil and water don't mix" and will separate in time. Also many common hydrocarbon solvents form maximum boiling azeotropes with water when distilled, and under the phase rule, means they also form 2 immiscible liquid phases. Take IPA / water for example. It forms 2 liquid phases but does have some cross solubility, meaning a certain % of IPA is soluble in water and a certain % of water is soluble in IPA. When this saturation point is exceeded, 2 phases are formed (mixture separates). In a formulation, the manufacturer has 2 options.....limit the %'s of the ingredients so they are soluble, or use an emulsifier to aid in this. A common one in this industry is morpholine, but it really depends on what exactly is in the mixture. Sounds like clearcote may have tweak their formulation.
 
DetailKing, thanks for the flashbacks to chem lab:P. Has anyone dumped bottles of other polishes/cleaner waxes into clear containers to see how long it takes for seperation?

I forgot if it's possible to get a chromatogram or ICP measurement from this stuff. I'm sure someone has that kind of instrumentation lying around :D.



at room temp VM completely seperates in about 48 hrs.
 
Do an experiment......compare settling in a sealed clear bottle to that of some poured into a small shallow clear bowl left indoors / uncovered overnight.
 
DK, don't try to confuse us with facts, we'd all rather let wild enthusiasm dictate what products we use and buy! :D



LOL, sorry, couldn't resist...



I'm not sure why there's the "problem" that there is here, but I will add a few little tidbits that I think bear considering.



There's been a lot of grumbling between some of us "old timers" lately about the current state of Autopia. In chats, phone calls, e-mails, etc., the sentiment is that Autopia has transformed from it's old state. I know change is inevitable and often good, but...



1) We used to all debate and scrutinize products with much skepticism. When new products were discovered, everyone cautiously tried them, evaluated them with a discerning eye, and then formulated decisions based on experimentation, etc.



2) "Pro" products (fast acting, single step, works in the blazing sun, etc) products weren't immediately trusted as "gospel" without a lot of testing, evaluating, etc.



3) The "hidden agendas" were far and few between (or apparent hidden agendas).



I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just sharing the info that's been discussed with several folks (5 - 10 of us) lately. The current trend here seems to be something like (sarcasm = "on"):



"Hey! I just tried this great product, it's called geekwax! Not only did it shine my car better than anything else, it did it in 8 minutes, cured instantly, cured my cough, brought my dog back from the dead, and cured my kid's tonsilitis! You all need to use it now!"



Followed shortly by, "wow! he's right!" and "yeah! it was the best!" Dare anyone question its results....and heaven forbid someone elses results be contrary to public opinion...(sarcasm = "off")



I think bret was speaking for "the group" when he expressed his skepticism about Clear Kote, and perhaps he was trying to remind everyone to read between the lines and consider all of the reviews before chosing a product. I haven't tried ClearKote yet, but I have some ordered. I'm reserving any judgement until I try it.



But, I will say, a product doesn't earn points with me if it can be applied in 100F+ temps...all that tells me is that it's got a lot of solvents and 'buffers' that allow it to be applied to a hot surface without streaking...



Just my thoughts, no "digs" at anyone; just sharing info and sentiments. :)



Edit: one more thought...



Think about how adventageous it would be for a manufacturer to "donate" a few products to a respected member of the community in exchange for a favorable review - people would buy the product in droves, and all it cost the mfg was a case or two of product... That's the devil's advocate part of me thinking... :)



/edit
 
Scottwax said:


And a personal note to you, Bret. You need to get over my criticism of the mistake made in Guru Reports concerning the score of Meguiars #26 wax. It isn't any of your business and I accept Steve's explanation on how it will be handled with the next issue of testing. I never said it was intentional either. I am getting real tired of you taking shots at me ever since I first raised my point in the thread about why Steve may stop using Meguiars products.
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I said my peace about that particular issue long ago. Why you feel the need to dredge it up is beyond me. I'm sorry you feel that was "taking a shot" at you because you're right, it wasn't any of my business. But when you continued to harp on that issue at Autopia and other forums, I felt the need to express my thoughts to you about your comments, which I did. End of story.



I appreciate the added info on your relationship with Clearkote.
 
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