Oneheadlite
Member
Are the pseudo-holograms what you were referring to people not caring for FK1000 on black? Or was that KSG you were talking about?
LSP Guidance Question - Or: Does FK1000 have a downside?
- Thread starter Oneheadlite
- Start date
Are the pseudo-holograms what you were referring to people not caring for FK1000 on black? Or was that KSG you were talking about?
Accumulator
Well-known member
No, sorry...wasn`t clear. Heh heh, I can`t imagine anybody being able to stand the pseudo-holograms on *any* color! But yeah, they would show up worse on something dark and FWIW my !oh [crap]! experience was on metallic black, GM Granite Metallic, the same vehicle I thought I`d hate it on, only to decide I loved how it looked (after maybe two weeks).
The pseudo-holograms looked just like light rotary holograms or improperly buffed off LSP or maybe wash-induced marring. They just looked [messed] up, period.
What I meant about the looks is that:
FK1000P looks like a glossy/shallow/sealanty LSP with limited jetting/depth. I thought I`d hate it on dark colors but after a few days I decided I liked it...at least on *those vehicles*, like my Yukon XLD that I referred to above. No, I didn`t talk myself into it because I like FK1000P
nor was I influenced by all the complete strangers who came up to compliment how it looked (that actually kinda bugged me). But guys who will split hairs over such stuff will probably say it looks awful beacuse of the lack of depth/jetting/richness (eh, I just won`t comment on that Hey, it`s just car wax).The KSG is kinda similar in the "looks like a sealant, no depth or richness or jetting" BUT it also has a signature look of "like it`s wrapped/coated with plastic". Looks better with each coat up to four IME, but I JUST DIDN`T LIKE IT on some paints/vehicles and I bet others would`ve hated it even more.
Bumping this thread to seek some Accumulator wisdom (or anyone else that can help, I’m not picky!)
My thoughts on FK1000P are mostly favorable at this time. Seems to shed dirt well, and has held up well so far.
My questions are;
1) what applicator do you prefer? I’ve been using a 3.5” flat waxing pad by hand (it’s for a DA) and it’s really not been a super great application experience. It really drags on the surface, which makes it take much longer to lay down a coat that id prefer.
1b) are there any tricks you have to make the applicator glide a little more smoothly that would be applicable to any foam applicator? I believe I’ve seen you mention spritzing some fk425 into the container but I can’t really if that was to soften an unusually hard tin or for a better application experience.
2) the dreaded smearing and oily residue I’ve read about. This seems to be something I simply can’t avoid sometimes. Even when I applied a coat so thin on my hood that I had to go by tactile feel alone because I couldn’t see the residue I was leaving behind, coming back to buff it off later with a light I could still make out that it wasn’t giving me a clean wipe down.
I did experience a great wipe off fresh after polishing and going over the paint with an IPA solution. That was a dream to wipe off, came off very clean.
I’ve also seen people say things along the lines of.. first coat doesn’t go on the smoothest, but the second coat goes on much easier. That hasn’t exactly been my experience.
I like the performance of the sealant very much. I’ve purposefully avoided using anything that would substantially alter the surface characteristics of the LSP after applying it just to see how it holds up.
I’ll usually use d156 or forever rinseless at the QD dilution as I’m drying because it’s just so easy, and it’s done pretty phenomenal so far.
If I can iron out the application process to be smoother/more consistent, this will be a winner in my books.
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My thoughts on FK1000P are mostly favorable at this time. Seems to shed dirt well, and has held up well so far.
My questions are;
1) what applicator do you prefer? I’ve been using a 3.5” flat waxing pad by hand (it’s for a DA) and it’s really not been a super great application experience. It really drags on the surface, which makes it take much longer to lay down a coat that id prefer.
1b) are there any tricks you have to make the applicator glide a little more smoothly that would be applicable to any foam applicator? I believe I’ve seen you mention spritzing some fk425 into the container but I can’t really if that was to soften an unusually hard tin or for a better application experience.
2) the dreaded smearing and oily residue I’ve read about. This seems to be something I simply can’t avoid sometimes. Even when I applied a coat so thin on my hood that I had to go by tactile feel alone because I couldn’t see the residue I was leaving behind, coming back to buff it off later with a light I could still make out that it wasn’t giving me a clean wipe down.
I did experience a great wipe off fresh after polishing and going over the paint with an IPA solution. That was a dream to wipe off, came off very clean.
I’ve also seen people say things along the lines of.. first coat doesn’t go on the smoothest, but the second coat goes on much easier. That hasn’t exactly been my experience.
I like the performance of the sealant very much. I’ve purposefully avoided using anything that would substantially alter the surface characteristics of the LSP after applying it just to see how it holds up.
I’ll usually use d156 or forever rinseless at the QD dilution as I’m drying because it’s just so easy, and it’s done pretty phenomenal so far.
If I can iron out the application process to be smoother/more consistent, this will be a winner in my books.
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Accumulator
Well-known member
I`m tempted to go *against* my usual advice and suggest that you use more product. Can`t believe I`m saying that....
I never give *any* thought to what applicator I use. I just grab a "round foam wax applicator" and do it. Or I`ll do a small area using a MF towel. Or if doing the back side of wheels I`ll use cotton terry. I`ve given "what applicator" absolutely zero consideration! Lucky me, or unlucky you, or...well gee YMMV again.
I`d try better priming the applicator as the first try along lines of "use more product". Don`t go crazy just make sure the entire surface of the applicator has some FK1000P on *and IN the pores of* the foam.
Use an overlapping motion rather than straight lines.
Using some FK425 might help and I`ve never had it interfere with the FK1000P in any way.
2) the dreaded smearing and oily residue I’ve read about. This seems to be something I simply can’t avoid sometimes. Even when I applied a coat so thin on my hood that I had to go by tactile feel alone because I couldn’t see the residue I was leaving behind, coming back to buff it off later with a light I could still make out that it wasn’t giving me a clean wipe down.
I did experience a great wipe off fresh after polishing and going over the paint with an IPA solution. That was a dream to wipe off, came off very clean.[/quote]
Hmmm...trying to reconcile that with my "try using more" even though they seem incompatible...
Since going way overkill on the "prep for a clean surface" works so well, I kinda wonder whether my "don`t worry about it" just doesn`t apply to your situation. Maybe you *do* have to do all that stuff that I always skip!
FWIW, I almost always just apply FK1000P over the previous coat, or on top of some kind of AIO.
What about letting it set up longer? It oughta pass the "finger-swipe test" cleanly before it`s buffed off. Eh, I`m spoiled by my climate-controlled conditions.
Are you fogging the surface with your breath while buffing off? I *always* do that. Every time, every inch. No exceptions.
I assume you`re using your (apparently good) inspection lighting while you buff off so you can accurately gauge your progress.
Now that *really* has me scratching my head! Since it *does* layer, even if doing the solvent-action/pseudo-hologram/uh-oh thing, it`s basically "wax going on top of wax" and oughta be really smooth sailing.
I`d be very surprised if either of those messed with FK1000p in any way, but then this appears to be one thread that`s giving me some surprises!
And *I* will be happier about having recommended it; I really feel that I oughta be able to help sort this out but it`s kinda challenging!
Reloading the applicator does seem to facilitate a smoother application process, but at that point it`s almost like I`m willingly putting it on thicker, which seems very counter intuitive.
I`m thinking I may try a QD spray to prime the applicator (it`s not FK425, but hey.. something to experiment with) to see if that makes the pad I use more manageable. These are the pads I have available to use;
Feeling them, the foam composition does feel pretty different, so next time I apply I may see if the yellow megs ones feel any better. I do like the red one though. The megs one causes my hand to cramp after awhile because it`s so small and my hands are on the larger side.
I admittedly don`t "prep" the surface after a polish super often. It was just one of those "well I have it mixed up, may as well go for it" (the IPA mixture, that is) moments.
The second coat that I applied actually set up overnight in the garage, and still didn`t buff off cleanly. This was also the coat that didn`t seem to go on any easier than the initial one, for whatever reason.
I did attempt fogging the surface on one of my fenders, and it didn`t seem to make any difference in the smearing. I`m also indeed keeping my light handy to make sure things are going smoothly.
This has been my experience with various carnubas I`ve used, so I was pretty surprised it wasn`t the case (for me) with FK1000P.
I didn`t mean that they`d necessarily work against FK1000P, just more that I was playing around to see how it holds up on it`s own without regular topping from a QD or spray wax. I`ve almost always wiped the car down with something following a wash, so I figured I`d let this sealant show me what it`s got.
Well I`m for sure glad I got it, it really does shed dirt well during a rinse before I wash, and it`s a tremendous value considering how little you use. it almost seems impossible to pinpoint an issue (or maybe some paints just don`t like certain LSPs, who knows) without incredibly well documented steps with pictures and/or videos for someone to see clearly what I`m doing. But once I iron out an application process that lines up with what other people are experiencing, this stuff will probably have a permanent spot in my arsenal unless I jump ship to coatings at some point.
I haven`t had a chance to do much detailing lately, but yesterday I changed a few adhesive numbers on my 3 year old medium sized brown mailbox.
I couldn`t help myself and put a coat of FK on it.
Other than where the flag gently scratched it, it`s got a gloss like no other on the street.
Definitely do the FK.
And please guys, and gals take your time getting to your box.... No running.
��
I couldn`t help myself and put a coat of FK on it.
Other than where the flag gently scratched it, it`s got a gloss like no other on the street.
Definitely do the FK.
And please guys, and gals take your time getting to your box.... No running.
��
EdLancer
New member
M16 wax and gun is as American as apple pie always have a few tins in inventory to show your an old timer ! ...LoL
The Collinite twins 845IW and 476S is still my go to LSP, been dying to try some FK1000P but their limited availability is an issue unless I have to buy a ton of stuff from an online retailer to make it affordable with shipping.
Accumulator
Well-known member
finick- Eh, your latest post kinda puts me back at square1! Wonder what`s going on...
Every time I think "this probably won`t work well under FK1000P, better just do a tiny test spot"...surprise, it works fine. SO why you might be having these issues simply confounds me.
I`d probably take one section, strip it to bare paint, use something that I *KNOW* is FK1000P-friendly, and see what happens. Got any KAIO or ZAIO?
If you were applying the FK right after polishing with something like M205 I`d just blame those Trade Secret Oils, but that doesn`t seem to be the case. Eh, I`m still stumped, and/but sure glad you`re happy with it nonetheless and not blaming me for wasting your money on a problematic product!
ShawnF350- I bet that *is* a dramatic improvement on the mailbox!
EdLancer- Since you`re using the same waxes that I used to swear by, I`d sure be interested in your opinion if you ever do try the FK.
Every time I think "this probably won`t work well under FK1000P, better just do a tiny test spot"...surprise, it works fine. SO why you might be having these issues simply confounds me.
I`d probably take one section, strip it to bare paint, use something that I *KNOW* is FK1000P-friendly, and see what happens. Got any KAIO or ZAIO?
If you were applying the FK right after polishing with something like M205 I`d just blame those Trade Secret Oils, but that doesn`t seem to be the case. Eh, I`m still stumped, and/but sure glad you`re happy with it nonetheless and not blaming me for wasting your money on a problematic product!
ShawnF350- I bet that *is* a dramatic improvement on the mailbox!
EdLancer- Since you`re using the same waxes that I used to swear by, I`d sure be interested in your opinion if you ever do try the FK.
The only AIO products I have are hd speed and blackfire one step.
I had originally planned to top hd speed or bf one step with fk1000p, but decided if I wanted to really experience its full glory I’d use a dedicated polish (hd polish+ in this case) and prep the paint with an IPA wipe.
What’s funny is the first time I applied fk1000p after the polishing/prep, about a few days later it seemed as though it had completely failed on my horizontal panels. I reapplied at that point (didn’t buff off cleanly this time) and its held up wonderfully since.
I’m definitely pleased at how it’s held up thus far, and considering on sale it was like 15 bucks.. can’t really be upset about that! I still have a quart of m205 I can’t use because it scours my paint something fierce, talk about a disappointing purchase...
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Accumulator
Well-known member
finick- I wonder what would happen if you did an intentionally thicker application (not crazy-thick, just enough that you can clearly see it on the paint).
And I too have bunch of M205 that I`ll never use just sitting here. But in my case it`s about a gallon
And I too have bunch of M205 that I`ll never use just sitting here. But in my case it`s about a gallon
jrock645
New member
Weird, ive had great experiences with 205
Accumulator
Well-known member
Yeah, you and most people who`ve tried it
Heh heh...it`s another subject where some of us are, uhm...different
I may give that a try. I washed the car today, and it seems like the LSP had failed in splotches on each panel. Which is interesting because last week(ish) when I washed it was totally fine.
What boggles my mind is that.. if I’m, presumably, putting it on so thin that I’m not even getting full coverage on the panels (I’m assuming this is why it’s failing and looking “splotchy”) you’d think it would have no issues hazing for me to buff it off.
For now I simply rinsed the car off, dried, then went over it with forever rinseless at the spray sealant dilution. I know I can get 2-3 months out of that while I play around with FK1000P.
I’m going to experiment with application on my gfs car (she’ll just be happy it’s clean, I swear) until it seems to go on/off more in line with other people’s experiences. I’ll probably update this thread periodically with thoughts/inquiries.
The one thing that I can say though, is that this smearing phenomenon isn’t isolated to just fk1000p. The first time I used ultimate liquid wax, the exact same thing happened. I’d say the only LSPs I’ve had consistently be easy to apply/remove are carnuba waxes.
I’m starting to think that some paints just don’t accept LSPs well the same way some tires don’t accept dressings, or that I’m doing something fundamentally wrong!
And I too have bunch of M205 that I`ll never use just sitting here. But in my case it`s about a gallon
Oof.. that’s like my mostly full gallon of d151 I have to use up on the cars around here. I hate that stuff!
I tried just about every technique I’d ever seen in any forum post or YouTube video to get both Ultimate Polish AND M205 to finish down haze free on my paint. It was probably the most disappointing polishing experience I’ve ever had lol.
I’m sure m205 works incredibly well on the right paints, but it hazed mine so badly the only appropriate word that ever comes to mind is that it scoured it.
GG Perfecting Cream and HD Polish+ both finish down wonderfully, so I can only assume whatever abrasives Meguiars likes to use are my paints mortal enemy. I originally thought DAT abrasives were the only way I’d get a haze free finish, thankfully that wasn’t the case.
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Have you tried different kind of nap on the mf towel when wipe off the fk1000p? Even if I have never used it I would think a first pass with a low nap mf towel. And then buff off with a longer nap mf towel. Since the nature of the fk1000p is a sealant and not the traditional wax. Maybe accumulator can shime in what mf towels do you use?
I indeed have, whether it be the eagle edgeless, minx, creature, or some orange CG towels I still have.. no matter the side, it still smears. It’s very weird.
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Accumulator
Well-known member
SWETM- Heh heh, that "thin side then thick" sounds like the exact opposite of what Ketch told me oughta be done! He said to use a plush terry-weave to "open it up for more air exposure" or somesuch and then buff it out with something less plush/aggressive/etc.
I never bothered trying anything like that as the only problems I`ve ever had were the pseudo-holograms and I can avoid those by just not waxing so much.
MFs for removal? Whatever`s handy. Yeah, really...I give it very little thought as everything works fine for me. From old YoSteve ones to nice plush edgeless of the latest type, to low-nap/suede-style ones...always turns out the same for me.
finick- Yes indeed, a real mystery!
Either that paint, or your environment, or something related to your prep, or a bad tin of FK1000P.
The *only* times I`ve experienced the smearing is when there were compatibility issues between my LSP and whatever penultimate product preceded it.
I could get M205 to finish out OK, but it didn`t look as good as when I finished with other Finishing Polishes. Not bad, most would think great, but not as good as I knew it could be. But mainly it was the Trade Secret Oils that I couldn`t stand.
I never bothered trying anything like that as the only problems I`ve ever had were the pseudo-holograms and I can avoid those by just not waxing so much.
MFs for removal? Whatever`s handy. Yeah, really...I give it very little thought as everything works fine for me. From old YoSteve ones to nice plush edgeless of the latest type, to low-nap/suede-style ones...always turns out the same for me.
finick- Yes indeed, a real mystery!
Either that paint, or your environment, or something related to your prep, or a bad tin of FK1000P.
The *only* times I`ve experienced the smearing is when there were compatibility issues between my LSP and whatever penultimate product preceded it.
I could get M205 to finish out OK, but it didn`t look as good as when I finished with other Finishing Polishes. Not bad, most would think great, but not as good as I knew it could be. But mainly it was the Trade Secret Oils that I couldn`t stand.
By the way, "Ketch" Accumulator is referring to is Frank Ketchum (AKA, "Grumpy"), a longtime Autopian All-Star/contributor (now missing in action) and in real life a product rep (now retired) for Finish Kare? and Valu-Guard car-care products to the major car manufacturers in the USA , Mazda and Nissan?. His experience, insight, and suggestions/information on car care was invaluable when he posted here MANY years ago (not to mention his sometimes "twisted" humor).
Accumulator:
Not to hi-jack this thread on FK1000P (OK, Captain Obvious, you are), but refresh my memory: What are your compounds and polishes of choice to "replace/supplant" Meg`s M105/M205? Yes, I am in the same boat as you:
1) Have a lot of both to use up (so I use it because of my hobby "budget")
2) Hate the dusting/debris that M105 leaves in window/trunk/hood/door seals or panel edge seams IF it dries out during its (short) working time (and subsequent micro-marring it may (does) induce)
3) Dislike the Trade-Secrete Oils (TSOs) in M205 that require some type of removal by washing or at least an isopropyl wipe or other pre-LSP prep solvent to reduce the risk of LSP-incompatibility and LSP blotches/clouding/hazing (pick one; you know what I mean) with some (but not all) carnauba-based waxes.
I think June Bug or Dave Fermani suggested a good use for no-longer-used M105 as a hand-applied chrome (NOT metal) cleaner. I`ve tried it, it`s OK, but follow up with Optimum`s Metal Polish (good stuff!).
Accumulator:
Not to hi-jack this thread on FK1000P (OK, Captain Obvious, you are), but refresh my memory: What are your compounds and polishes of choice to "replace/supplant" Meg`s M105/M205? Yes, I am in the same boat as you:
1) Have a lot of both to use up (so I use it because of my hobby "budget")
2) Hate the dusting/debris that M105 leaves in window/trunk/hood/door seals or panel edge seams IF it dries out during its (short) working time (and subsequent micro-marring it may (does) induce)
3) Dislike the Trade-Secrete Oils (TSOs) in M205 that require some type of removal by washing or at least an isopropyl wipe or other pre-LSP prep solvent to reduce the risk of LSP-incompatibility and LSP blotches/clouding/hazing (pick one; you know what I mean) with some (but not all) carnauba-based waxes.
I think June Bug or Dave Fermani suggested a good use for no-longer-used M105 as a hand-applied chrome (NOT metal) cleaner. I`ve tried it, it`s OK, but follow up with Optimum`s Metal Polish (good stuff!).
I know this was directed towards accumulator, but as someone else who had poor experiences with Meguiars compounds and polishes, I hope my answer can at least provide a small amount of insight.
The line of Pinnacle compounds/polishes work very well (overpriced imo given what’s on the market.) Mike Phillips actually sent me a bottle of Advanced Swirl Remover to try to see if it would resolve the scouring leftover from m205, pictured in the tape line in the following picture;
I wish I could go back in time and tell myself how to take a better picture! But hopefully you get the idea. M205 is the line down the center, with Advanced Swirl Remover on either side. Huge difference in clarity.
For awhile I was happy using a product like that, but I eventually got tired of having to break down the abrasives if I just wanted to quickly do a polish to clean things up. Not a fan of having to do x amount of passes if I can get the job done in y amount with another product.
Having played around with the Griots Garage BOSS creams, they’re really spectacular. Fast Correcting Cream and Perfecting Cream produce no dust, seem to have infinite work time, and they both finish down beautifully. The same paint that m205 scoured, Fast Correcting Cream finished down LSP ready on a light cutting pad.
The lubrication in the BOSS creams provides a very smooth buffing cycle, and an all around wonderful user experience whether you’re using foam or microfiber. They also smell great.
Wipe off is very easy in my experience. They don’t feel like they leave excessive amounts of residual oils behind like some other products.
I have nothing but good things to say about the BOSS creams. I was worried they’d basically be repackaged m105/205, but they’re miles ahead imo.
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Just an update, for anyone that might come across this in the future with the same issues as I’ve had (and others.)
I took the time tonight to play around with using a megs yellow foam applicator moistened with some QD.
I can’t for the life of me remember what the QD is called, a guy from a place I used to work gave it to me. I think it’s from a company called shine-mate or something.
I took this picture just to give you an idea of how thick of an application it was. Easily visible with the right angle, but standing and looking without light, not super obvious. But then again, maybe that’s an atrociously thick application and I should be ashamed of it!
Got my light out for these following pictures. The right half of the hood, I wiped off after I finished application. As you can (hopefully) see in the picture it wiped very cleanly.
Right half of the hood done, everything wiped down cleanly, seemed to line up with everyone’s experiences I’ve read about.
This is what I found interesting. I went back about 20 minutes later and wiped off the left side, and was greeted with the smearing I normally get.
You can see the streaks heading left to right, in the same way that I made my last passes applying the sealant. It’s worth noting that along the second half of the hood, the applicator had started to become -slightly- grabby on the paint. I didn’t reload because I was aiming to not apply overly thick, so I just rolled with it.
It sort of leads me to wonder if I’d be better off focusing on how the applicator feels going over the paint, and just reloading to make sure it’s gliding as it should, instead of worrying about how thick it’s going on. There really wasn’t a visible difference in the film left behind, so maybe I just think I’m applying it thicker than I really am sometimes.
Maybe I should also aim to just apply to 2-3 panels and go back to remove and see if that helps.
At any rate, using the yellow applicator misted with QD was a wildly different application experience. The Forensics Detailing channel described FK1000P as feeling like butter when working it over a panel (maybe in his mega wax test video.. can’t remember) and it definitely felt like that this time around.
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I took the time tonight to play around with using a megs yellow foam applicator moistened with some QD.
I can’t for the life of me remember what the QD is called, a guy from a place I used to work gave it to me. I think it’s from a company called shine-mate or something.
I took this picture just to give you an idea of how thick of an application it was. Easily visible with the right angle, but standing and looking without light, not super obvious. But then again, maybe that’s an atrociously thick application and I should be ashamed of it!
Got my light out for these following pictures. The right half of the hood, I wiped off after I finished application. As you can (hopefully) see in the picture it wiped very cleanly.
Right half of the hood done, everything wiped down cleanly, seemed to line up with everyone’s experiences I’ve read about.
This is what I found interesting. I went back about 20 minutes later and wiped off the left side, and was greeted with the smearing I normally get.
You can see the streaks heading left to right, in the same way that I made my last passes applying the sealant. It’s worth noting that along the second half of the hood, the applicator had started to become -slightly- grabby on the paint. I didn’t reload because I was aiming to not apply overly thick, so I just rolled with it.
It sort of leads me to wonder if I’d be better off focusing on how the applicator feels going over the paint, and just reloading to make sure it’s gliding as it should, instead of worrying about how thick it’s going on. There really wasn’t a visible difference in the film left behind, so maybe I just think I’m applying it thicker than I really am sometimes.
Maybe I should also aim to just apply to 2-3 panels and go back to remove and see if that helps.
At any rate, using the yellow applicator misted with QD was a wildly different application experience. The Forensics Detailing channel described FK1000P as feeling like butter when working it over a panel (maybe in his mega wax test video.. can’t remember) and it definitely felt like that this time around.
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MattPersman
New member
On wax hybrids like that, a moistened applicator with water I usually use, but a QD apparently works too has been the best method to apply thinly. I have also found it best to do 2-3 panels then remove
I see your experience is like mine then
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I see your experience is like mine then
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