LSP Guidance Question - Or: Does FK1000 have a downside?

[Oneheadlite]

So between winter (unheated garage) and a case of Paralysis-By-Analysis, I still haven`t locked in on what I want to do for a LSP on my wife`s car.

On the shelf at home I already have Griot`s Liquid Gloss Poly Wax, Griot`s Premium Carnauba Paste Wax, and Optimum Gloss Coat. I may still have a bottle of Meguiars High Tech Yellow Wax as well.

I`ve been torn on what I want to apply after finally getting the paint cleaned up. Looking for something that will have a decent life on a DD that may go a few weeks between cleanings, lives outside during the day so it`ll be at the mercy of birds and rain, and is forgiving if it gets on plastic trim (worst case scenario). Water spots are a big fear of mine, as I`m worried about making life harder despite the car being shinier.

While the paste wax is super easy to apply/remove, it doesn`t strike me as the best fit based on generally short lifespan discussed for `Nubas.

The Poly Wax also was very easy to work with, but no one seems to talk about it much to give a feel for what to expect from it. I`m ashamed to admit while I`ve used it on the car once, but wasn`t really monitoring it with a critical eye to see what I thought about the performance of it.

I think ultimately the Gloss Coat will end up on my car when time allows. I got it earlier in my `Geek/Autopian days when there weren`t as many coating options being discussed. I was also listening to their podcasts at the time, so I think that biased that purchase... My worry with the Gloss Coat on her car is water spots. I`m trying to refrain from spending a bunch more on products after realizing how much inventory I`ve accumulated yet haven`t actually put to service...

With how much I see it come up, I`ve been considering getting FK1000 for her car since I don`t seem to see many negatives come up regarding it (other than being sure to apply it thin - that much I can handle). And with the sale going today, it`d be $12 for a tin I could likely pass onto my Daughter when I`m gone. :lol: Are there downsides to it that I`ve missed? (Other than it not being a shiny new entry to the market, no pun intended)

For frame of reference, cars will be up kept with Griot`s Rinseless, N-914, or just GG Car Wash.

Once I burn up some inventory, seems like Can Coat or Sonax PNS could be a good option, but the research would continue when that time arrives.

 

[Accumulator]

Oneheadlite- Guess there`s not much point in posting *my* opinion as I`m sure you know it But here I go again

The only downsides I`ve discovered are:

-Some won`t like how it looks on certain colors
-It needs redone more often than coatings (including GlossCoat, which I sometimes use on wheels)
-Everybody probably oughta keep it off trim no matter what I might`ve gotten away with
-It shouldn`t be layered too quickly lest you risk pseudo-holograms

When it comes to spotting, the *dirt* will sometimes leaves spots if conditions aren`t conducive to the "self-cleaning in the rain" thing, but IME everything like that washes right off with zero issues. I`ve *NEVER* had any spotting that required more than a regular wash, not once. And I can`t recall *ever* having anything etch through it, no matter how long I`ve left the [whatever] on the paint (and Autopians wouldn`t believe how long I`ve left bugs/bird-bombs on there ). Note that I`ll often just pressure wash it (once with soft water and again with deionized), blow it dry, and say "good enough" (and IMO it *is* good enough for a real-world daily).

Never noticed any spotting/etc. with the GlossCoated wheels, but the application isn`t as foolproof as FK1000P and I`m leery of said application being Accumulator-proof, so between that and the question of spot-correction I still don`t plan to ever coat my paint.

 

[nickclark08]

I literally just got done re-doing the FK1000p on my car.

Rinseless washed with N-914, Clayed with N-914 in clay lube dilution, and then re-waxed with FK1000p. Applied the wax in an open-air warehouse out of the sun, and left it on to cure for 20+min. Not too difficult to remove, but it`s not going to be like PB nattys level easy. No streaks, no smears, super slick. I`ll apply another coat in a week or two once I wash it again.

Based on past experience with the stuff, I can push 6 months before I notice the Fk qualities are starting to diminish significantly. DD sits outside 24/7 in the Texas heat. I wash with PB slick and suds, and give it either Megs UQW / D156 or McKees extender wax once a month or so.

I forgot how much I love this stuff.

 

[Desertnate]

If you have the Gloss Coat, you might as well use it. I sure would.

Like Accumulator, I`ve never had any water spotting issues on my coated cars. Coatings make washing and maintaining so easy, it`s the clear winner from my perspective.

 

[Accumulator]

Based on past experience with the stuff, I can push 6 months before I notice the Fk qualities are starting to diminish significantly. DD sits outside 24/7 in the Texas heat..

Gee, that even got *my* attention!

 

[Oneheadlite]

Awesome. Thanks for the input all!

Accumulator - Thanks for chiming in, I was hoping you would. While I know you sing it`s praises, just wanted to make sure I hadn`t missed any negatives you may have mentioned.

Nickclark - Great info, thanks!

Desertnate - I`ll definitely put it to use, just more likely on my car.

 

[nickclark08]

I`d say the "sweet spot" is ~4 months with it acting reasonably like the day I put it on.

However, even though it`s not beading as well as it ages, I notice that the self-cleaning and sheeting properties are still there til about 6 months, where it just dies off for me. Still washes up nice and releases contaminates just fine.

YMMV

Gee, that even got *my* attention!

 

[finick]

I’m in the market for a durable, cost effective LSP at the moment.

Up until now I’ve used; m16, Meguiars ULW, forever rinseless diluted to a spray sealant, and britemax vantage paste wax.

Currently the LSP on my radar is Klasse sealant glaze, but I also see FK1000p mentioned quite a bit, and was wondering if that could potentially be what I’m looking for!

I live in MD, so a pretty wide range of weather, and my car sits outside 24/7.


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[nickclark08]

Paging Accumulator!

He will likely chime in later, but he is sort of the resident authority when it comes to these two LSPs.

He’s used both pretty extensively, and can give you a solid compare/contrast.

From what ive read about Klasse SG, you probably can’t go wrong with either one.

I’m in the market for a durable, cost effective LSP at the moment.

Up until now I’ve used; m16, Meguiars ULW, forever rinseless diluted to a spray sealant, and britemax vantage paste wax.

Currently the LSP on my radar is Klasse sealant glaze, but I also see FK1000p mentioned quite a bit, and was wondering if that could potentially be what I’m looking for!

I live in MD, so a pretty wide range of weather, and my car sits outside 24/7.


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[finick]

Paging Accumulator!

He will likely chime in later, but he is sort of the resident authority when it comes to these two LSPs.

He’s used both pretty extensively, and can give you a solid compare/contrast.

From what ive read about Klasse SG, you probably can’t go wrong with either one.

That’s sort of what I’ve been picking up when I read up on both of these products.

Granted, I read great things about ULW as well.

I probably should at least use up some of what I have before I get something else. Of all the LSPs I have, ULW was definitely one of the better ones. ULW has a tendency to be very “smeary”, though I suspect Accumulator will no doubt let me know it’s because I applied it too thick (which I admittedly probably did.)

At any rate, I’m just compiling a list to reference when it’s time for something new.

At times I think what I want from my LSP is asking too much, short of just using a consumer grade coating. But I have my reservations about going that route as well.


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[Accumulator]

finick- Welcome to Autopia! Heh heh, as you could tell by the previous posts I have a bit to say on those two LSPs`; whether I`m an "authority" or not I do have lots of experience with them on daily drivers.

The only way for KSG to compete with FK1000P with regard to durability is to heavily layer the KSG, whereas the FK1000P doesn`t need that. KSG still doesn`t last as long for me, and it quits doing the "slick, self-cleaning" thing MUCH sooner no matter how many coats I apply.

IMO doing fewer than three layers of KSG is simply pointless (stick with your M16 instead of doing that). IME four is the minimum to get any real "sealant superiority over wax" effect. Six layers was always my magic number for attaining durability, though the appearance improvements dropped off after maybe four or five.

VERY different looks! I can`t stand KSG on certain paints (including my silver Audis), but I can bear FK1000P on most anything and I simply *LOVE* it on silver/white/etc., moreso than any other LSP I`ve used or seen. I supsect others would hate it on black or maybe some reds so YMMV.

The one genuine and unique benefit of KSG IME is that if you apply enough layers you can build up a thick enough build-film that it`ll provide a genuine barrier against (very minor) abrasion. NEVER would`ve believed it had I not experienced it myself when what should`ve been a real "oh [crap], gotta polish that out!" was instead just a "oops, sure glad that didn`t mar...wonder how I got away with that!?!". The practical benefit is that you can more aggressively "clay your LSP clean" with KSG whereas FK1000P is more easily compromised by (too-)aggressive claying. That`s why I`m still using it on certain things.

FK1000P provides my vehicles near coating-like protection and durability with just a coat or two.

And if you tend to apply a bit too thick, I`d forget about KSG right now; I use *FAR* less than an ounce to do a Suburban, and that includes all the jambs/etc. and using more is asking for some real work.

AND..my KSG is very old, if they`ve changed it, maybe due to VOC regulations, then it might not be as good now (I sincerely doubt it could`ve been improved).

Eh, I`d say to just get a tin of FK1000P and be all set for the next dozen years or so.

 

[finick]

finick- Welcome to Autopia! Heh heh, as you could tell by the previous posts I have a bit to say on those two LSPs`; whether I`m an "authority" or not I do have lots of experience with them on daily drivers.

The only way for KSG to compete with FK1000P with regard to durability is to heavily layer the KSG, whereas the FK1000P doesn`t need that. KSG still doesn`t last as long for me, and it quits doing the "slick, self-cleaning" thing MUCH sooner no matter how many coats I apply.

IMO doing fewer than three layers of KSG is simply pointless (stick with your M16 instead of doing that). IME four is the minimum to get any real "sealant superiority over wax" effect. Six layers was always my magic number for attaining durability, though the appearance improvements dropped off after maybe four or five.

VERY different looks! I can`t stand KSG on certain paints (including my silver Audis), but I can bear FK1000P on most anything and I simply *LOVE* it on silver/white/etc., moreso than any other LSP I`ve used or seen. I supsect others would hate it on black or maybe some reds so YMMV.

The one genuine and unique benefit of KSG IME is that if you apply enough layers you can build up a thick enough build-film that it`ll provide a genuine barrier against (very minor) abrasion. NEVER would`ve believed it had I not experienced it myself when what should`ve been a real "oh [crap], gotta polish that out!" was instead just a "oops, sure glad that didn`t mar...wonder how I got away with that!?!". The practical benefit is that you can more aggressively "clay your LSP clean" with KSG whereas FK1000P is more easily compromised by (too-)aggressive claying. That`s why I`m still using it on certain things.

FK1000P provides my vehicles near coating-like protection and durability with just a coat or two.

And if you tend to apply a bit too thick, I`d forget about KSG right now; I use *FAR* less than an ounce to do a Suburban, and that includes all the jambs/etc. and using more is asking for some real work.

AND..my KSG is very old, if they`ve changed it, maybe due to VOC regulations, then it might not be as good now (I sincerely doubt it could`ve been improved).

Eh, I`d say to just get a tin of FK1000P and be all set for the next dozen years or so.

I appreciate the thorough response.

In regards to layering KSG to match FK1000P, does that take into account two layers of FK1000P?

I put a coat of M16 on my car yesterday, and I had forgotten how nice it can make the car look. I`ve been using D156/FR for so long as opposed to a "true" lsp I had forgotten the wow factor!

I`m genuinely not very picky about how a LSP looks, or at least I don`t think I am. My Altima is red, and I haven`t ever noticed any of the LSP I have making it look a way I didn`t prefer, so I`m sure FK1000P would be just fine. It`s also probably worth pointing out that whatever I get will be put over something like HD speed or blackfires new AIO, and I seem to get mixed opinions over whether or not that would actually be an issue (in my experience it`s a non-issue, curious to know your opinion on it though.)

At any rate, I do need to work on applying things more thin. Not that I slop anything on, the M16 I put on buffed off effortlessly. I really struggled to see any type of haze on the surface as I "buffed off" what was there. It was my first time applying a paste with a DA, so I`m just hoping that I got even coverage.

How would you say M16 fares in comparison to FK1000P? I was given this tin ages ago, and I`ve just hardly used it. I`ve been contemplating thinning down my small little stock of LSP and other random odds and ends so that I have less to store/take care of.

 

[Accumulator]

In regards to layering KSG to match FK1000P, does that take into account two layers of FK1000P?

Even just one layer of FK1000P would outperform KSG unless the latter were heavily layered. I do always recommend that others do a second coat after the next wash, but I can often get by for ages with only one on my own cars and I could never do that with KSG.

I put a coat of M16 on my car yesterday, and I had forgotten how nice it can make the car look. I`ve been using D156/FR for so long as opposed to a "true" lsp I had forgotten the wow factor!

I`m genuinely not very picky about how a LSP looks, or at least I don`t think I am. My Altima is red, and I haven`t ever noticed any of the LSP I have making it look a way I didn`t prefer, so I`m sure FK1000P would be just fine.

Ah, M16...another I have a *LOT* of experience with (as in, decades, grew up around it). I bet you`ll think FK1000P looks fine. M16 is a somewhat "bright"/reflective wax and while the FK1000P is more "sealant-like" in looks it`s not at the other end of the spectrum.

BTW, since I quit using M16 on my wife`s car (now just use OCW for the LSP and IUDJ as the usual Drying Aid), it somehow looks *better* than it did with M16. Sure surprised me..but it really does look better. (Using IUDJ as a Drying Aid on FK1000P is even better than that IMO.) These aren`t subtle differences as my wife noticed, commented on it, and asked what I`m doing differently without any prompting.

It`s also probably worth pointing out that whatever I get will be put over something like HD speed or blackfires new AIO, and I seem to get mixed opinions over whether or not that would actually be an issue (in my experience it`s a non-issue, curious to know your opinion on it though.)

I haven`t used either of those, but from what I`ve read I don`t think I`d try FK1000P over the HD Speed, but I would almost certainly try it over the BF AIO. I too like that kind of approach and the FK1000P has always been OK with what I`ve used it over, but I don`t try it over stuff that contains natural waxes, only synthetic ones.

For the record- I`ve had *ZERO* experiences with underlying products compromising the durability of whatever I use as the topper. I`ve even had the underlying glaze "dry out" to where previously filled/concealed marring "came back"...but the LSP on top (it was Collinite) was still just fine..enough so that it gummed up my pad when I polished through it to fix that marring for good. All the talk about "needing bare paint" or claying or whatever to ensure LSP durability has been utterly counter to my experience.

At any rate, I do need to work on applying things more thin. Not that I slop anything on, the M16 I put on buffed off effortlessly. I really struggled to see any type of haze on the surface as I "buffed off" what was there. It was my first time applying a paste with a DA, so I`m just hoping that I got even coverage.

Sounds like you`re putting it on pretty thin, as M16 is tough to buff off if it`s too thick. Yeah, M16 via machine can be nice, it does that "paste wax that turns liquid" thing and spreads really well.

If there`s an appreciable amount of LSP in your applicator when you`re finished, that`s a clue you used too much. If a tin of M16 (let alone FK1000P) doesn`t last at least five or six years (and that few would be if LSPing maybe 6-8 big vehicles) then same thing. But eh...if it`s buffing off easily enough then that`s all that matters.

How would you say M16 fares in comparison to FK1000P? I was given this tin ages ago, and I`ve just hardly used it. I`ve been contemplating thinning down my small little stock of LSP and other random odds and ends so that I have less to store/take care of.

M16 dies off while the FK1000P is just getting started, and doesn`t protect against etching enough for a comparison.

I liked M16 so much that I bought a case of it before the VOC regulations kicked in as I never wanted to be without it. Used more of it than any other LSP I`ll ever try in this lifetime. That said, after using it for all those decades I haven`t opened my working tin of M16 for at least 5 years and I probably never will. I see zero reason to with FK1000P on the market. Eh, might use it once on a rental or something just to smell the Crayons scent and pretend it`s Back in the Day, but I have better things to do than rewax/clean off bird bombs and I don`t want to waste clearcoat fixing etching. If I`m gonna bother LSPing with real LSP (not just the SprayWax Drying Aid approach), I want months of bulletproof protection for my trouble. M16 was the [stuff] in the `60s-`70s; for a long while M16 and the Collinites were The Short Answer when it came to LSPs. But now they`re just stuff with some sentimental value that takes up shelf space.

 

[Oneheadlite]

...
VERY different looks! I can`t stand KSG on certain paints (including my silver Audis), but I can bear FK1000P on most anything and I simply *LOVE* it on silver/white/etc., moreso than any other LSP I`ve used or seen. I supsect others would hate it on black or maybe some reds so YMMV.
...

Was it KSG or FK1000 you mention some may not love on blacks/reds? The Mrs’ car is Phantom Black (black metallic)...

What was it that worked against the color?

 

[finick]

Even just one layer of FK1000P would outperform KSG unless the latter were heavily layered. I do always recommend that others do a second coat after the next wash, but I can often get by for ages with only one on my own cars and I could never do that with KSG

That`s what I like to hear! I took advantage of a sale over on autogeek tonight and grabbed a tin of FK1000P, a BOGO 4" waxing pad, and another sample of the new BF AIO. I`m eager to give it a try. I have a sneaking suspicion a small amount of marring that I *do* get from time to time is just because I haven`t been applying a more robust LSP for quite some time now (last 7-8 months maybe.)

I haven`t used either of those, but from what I`ve read I don`t think I`d try FK1000P over the HD Speed, but I would almost certainly try it over the BF AIO. I too like that kind of approach and the FK1000P has always been OK with what I`ve used it over, but I don`t try it over stuff that contains natural waxes, only synthetic ones.

For the record- I`ve had *ZERO* experiences with underlying products compromising the durability of whatever I use as the topper. I`ve even had the underlying glaze "dry out" to where previously filled/concealed marring "came back"...but the LSP on top (it was Collinite) was still just fine..enough so that it gummed up my pad when I polished through it to fix that marring for good. All the talk about "needing bare paint" or claying or whatever to ensure LSP durability has been utterly counter to my experience.

Well, maybe I`ll do a couple panels with HD speed and the rest of the car with the BF AIO, and report back after some time. I`d imagine with the solvents and whatnot present in FK1000P, maybe putting a couple coats on would be enough to obliterate whatever protection HD Speed would leave behind.. I can`t imagine being able to quantify something like that though. At any rate, I`ll see what happens just for the sake of trying.

Sounds like you`re putting it on pretty thin, as M16 is tough to buff off if it`s too thick. Yeah, M16 via machine can be nice, it does that "paste wax that turns liquid" thing and spreads really well.

If there`s an appreciable amount of LSP in your applicator when you`re finished, that`s a clue you used too much. If a tin of M16 (let alone FK1000P) doesn`t last at least five or six years (and that few would be if LSPing maybe 6-8 big vehicles) then same thing. But eh...if it`s buffing off easily enough then that`s all that matters.

Interestingly enough, I was really paranoid that I just wasn`t getting anything on the paint at all. I enjoyed the expedited process of using my DA to apply it, but I sort of missed the tactile feedback. On the areas like the trunk lid where I applied it slightly thicker, and could see the haze of product with the right angle.. It still buffed off effortlessly. The rest of the paint where I couldn`t see anything no matter how hard I tried felt super slick, but I just felt like I was wiping at nothing at all.

I want months of bulletproof protection for my trouble. M16 was the [stuff] in the `60s-`70s; for a long while M16 and the Collinites were The Short Answer when it came to LSPs. But now they`re just stuff with some sentimental value that takes up shelf space.

Once the verdict is in on FK1000P I may try to unload my M16 and other LSPs to a home that hopefully they`ll be loved in. Enough people love M16 I`m sure that at the very least I can get someone to take that one off my hands.

 

[Accumulator]

That`s what I like to hear! . I have a sneaking suspicion a small amount of marring that I *do* get from time to time is just because I haven`t been applying a more robust LSP for quite some time now (last 7-8 months maybe.)

Unless you pamper yours as much as I do mine, you might need to redo sooner, even with FK1000P. As for the wash-induced marring, it *might* help a little because of the way it sheds contamination, but it *won`t* help in the sense of "the LSP takes the abuse instead of the paint", just doesn`t work that way as IME you generally mar the paint without disturbing the LSP.

But I`m still glad you got it

..Well, maybe I`ll do a couple panels with HD speed and the rest of the car with the BF AIO, and report back after some time.

It won`t take some time, if the FK1000P doesn`t bond right you`ll have a bit of a mess and a whole new project. I`ll be interested to hear if it works OK, then we`ll know about the compatibility/not.

I`d imagine with the solvents and whatnot present in FK1000P, maybe putting a couple coats on would be enough to obliterate whatever protection HD Speed would leave behind..

It generally doesn`t work that way. I apply FK1000P over somewhat fragile products and it DOES NOT strip/compromise them. The potential issue is that it`ll either create a smeary mess or result in pseudo-holograms.

At any rate, I`ll see what happens just for the sake of trying...

Heh heh, OK... I`ll be interested to hear if it works OK, then we`ll know about the compatibility/not.

.. I was really paranoid that I just wasn`t getting anything on the paint at all. I enjoyed the expedited process of using my DA to apply it, but I sort of missed the tactile feedback...

Huh, I go *entirely* by tactile feedback, how the applicator feels going over the paint is my cue as to coverage since I can`t readily see the LSP.

..Once the verdict is in on FK1000P I may try to unload my M16 and other LSPs to a home that hopefully they`ll be loved in. Enough people love M16 I`m sure that at the very least I can get someone to take that one off my hands.

I dunno...I`ve tried without any real success to sell my M16 and 476S People *say* how popular it is and how people get big $ for it, but mine sat there on FleaBay with only one tin of 476S ever selling. I did sell a can or two of M16 to members here, but eh...I`m still stuck with many cans of both.

 

[finick]

As for the wash-induced marring, it *might* help a little because of the way it sheds contamination, but it *won`t* help in the sense of "the LSP takes the abuse instead of the paint"

That`s pretty much what I meant, yeah. I feel like solely relying on things such as D156 leaves me missing out on the more robust dirt-shedding capabilities of a beefier LSP. But time will tell, for sure.

It generally doesn`t work that way. I apply FK1000P over somewhat fragile products and it DOES NOT strip/compromise them. The potential issue is that it`ll either create a smeary mess or result in pseudo-holograms.

It won`t take some time, if the FK1000P doesn`t bond right you`ll have a bit of a mess and a whole new project. I`ll be interested to hear if it works OK, then we`ll know about the compatibility/not.

It arrives on friday I believe, so I`ll probably report back sometime in the days following!

Huh, I go *entirely* by tactile feedback, how the applicator feels going over the paint is my cue as to coverage since I can`t readily see the LSP.

Do you always see the haze left behind once your LSP has time to do it`s thing and haze up?

I dunno...I`ve tried without any real success to sell my M16 and 476S People *say* how popular it is and how people get big $ for it, but mine sat there on FleaBay with only one tin of 476S ever selling. I did sell a can or two of M16 to members here, but eh...I`m still stuck with many cans of both.

Well that`s disappointing but I guess i`ll still try, and worst case I can post it up on a trade forum. I`ll just keep my fingers crossed. I still have to sell my gallon of D151 I have sitting in my closet I didn`t like

 

[Accumulator]

Do you always see the haze left behind once your LSP has time to do it`s thing and haze up?

No, more like "seldom" as opposed to "always". If I work at it I can see it, especially on the dark blue `93 Audi, but on the silver vehicles it`s not obvious enough for me to go by visual cues when buffing off any more than I can while applying, too thin for that.

BUT...it`s not like it`s necessary to do the very thin applications, that`s just how I do it and your comments on the M16 use make me think you`ll do perfectly OK. Eh, I suggest you just do whatever you`d normally do, with confidence that it`ll turn out fine.

 

[JustJesus]

...BTW, since I quit using M16 on my wife`s car (now just use OCW for the LSP and IUDJ as the usual Drying Aid), it somehow looks *better* than it did with M16. Sure surprised me..but it really does look better. (Using IUDJ as a Drying Aid on FK1000P is even better than that IMO.)

Interesting! I haven`t used IUDJ in a long time. Might have to bring it out again.

Eh, might use it once on a rental or something just to smell the Crayons scent and pretend it`s Back in the Day

hehe...that`s funny.

 

[Accumulator]

I haven`t used IUDJ in a long time. Might have to bring it out again.

I`ll never get over how unexpectedly pleased I am with IUDJ. NEVER woulda thunk it in a million years. Literally forcing myself to use up gallons of the QDs I once raved about.

hehe...that`s funny.

Doing a full-Autopian job on a black rental Suburban pretty well got me over stuff like that, but I do get out certain products from [long before you were born ] now and then just to have a whiff and remember being Young and Immortal.