Is Zymol Concourse the BEST wax?

S

silk27106

New member
After seeing the new thread on the "higher end" Zymol Estate Vintage wax-free sample given to an Autopia member I decided to check out the Zymol site.....



I then called Zymol's 800 number and spoke with "Jonathon". Jonathon told me that "automative paint breaths like your skin and that a clear coat is basically a clear coat of paint. " He told me "it's important that your paint be able to breath through out the life of your car "and the Zymol Concourse at $150.00 a jar plus the cleanser cream by Zymol at $20.00 and it's the best stuff for my 2001 Camaro SS. He then said the main reason guys in the net don't speak about Zymol is because the general public beleives it's a German made product which it really is not. Zymol was invented and manufactuered by an American in 1980 and is based out of Connecticut. I then told him I had heard the Zymol Cleaner Wax (sold at PepBoys, Walmart) out of the Chicago area was made by Turtle wax and he said "no, that's a misconception." It's marketed thru Turtle wax but made at the Zymol factory outside Chicago. He said Zaino is very bad for your paint because it seals your paint and your paint cannot breath and over time your paint will fade........ is this true? Is Zymol that good for your paint? Check it out at.......



http://www.zymol.com/concour2.htm



I stocked up on Zaino but now I'm confused!



Opinions are welcomed......
 
Ray, I am not close to being an expert, in fact, I am a novice, but this will certainly open up a can of worms for discussion, and end in Johnothan getting flamed!!!!!!!!!:eek:
 
IMO, the zymol website is useless because it only says "this zymol wax is the absolute best because bull**** bull**** bull****". Marketing is marketing. he had a responsibility to endorse zymol but he's probably never even tried it. I've never even heard the zymol is german thing. i always thought it was ignored because it is a decent product at a very high price(opinions of course).



edit: apparently i'm too late this thread has already been given a :down
 
Avoided because of the high price would be the logical explanation. Most people have better things to spend $180 on (like electricity, phone, cable, etc.), but for those that don't....yeah the question is, is the wax good or not??? I guess Jngr will tell us when he does his vintage test against P21S how good Zymol really is..........
 
It just sound 'silly' to say that a factory paint, baked at such a high tempature, needs to "breath". Goes against common sense, especially when the clear coat isn't just another 'coat of paint', and it would also hinder the paints ability to breath. Nonsense.
 
"Ray, I am not close to being an expert, in fact, I am a novice, but this will certainly open up a can of worms for discussion, and end in Johnothan getting flamed"



Look Dude, I'm not trying to start anything with anyone. We all have an opinion and take it as that.



I'm no body man, I'm a private investor so I just don't undestand how automative paint can "breath"! Is the clear coat on new car's these days like a human's skin? So that's why the Zymol site says you need to message (with your bare hands) into your paint the feeding (wax)?



Please, to the Autopian vets, educate me on clear coats and breathing.



:nixweiss :nixweiss :nixweiss
 
Regardless of brand... there is no such thing as "THE BEST" coz most, if not all consumer products are products of compromises...



Can't please 'em all so to speak...



:)
 
Yes, but telling an uneducated (in detailing) person your paint breathe's is what? A lie? A fact?



Stating the facts and lieing are two very different things.:nono :nono :nono
 
Ray said:
He then said the main reason guys in the net don't speak about Zymol is because the general public beleives it's a German made product which it really is not.
Click to expand...
How is this a bad thing?? :confused: :confused: I would think stuff imported from Germany is good! Names like BMW, MB, Siemens, Krupp, and others usually imply "expensive quality". Klasse is also made in Germany.

stanger99 said:
IMO, the zymol website is useless because it only says "this zymol wax is the absolute best because bull**** bull**** bull****".
Click to expand...
LOL, I don't know why.... I just found this sentence hilarious! :D





By the way, I'm 99.5% sure paint doesn't "breath", as this has been discussed in the past. It's one of my pet peeves, just like products talking about "nourishing", "feeding", or "moisturizing" paint like it was skin or leather. :rolleyes:



EDIT: the only "breathing" I can imagine is with a fresh repaint. But even with that, Zaino says it's okay(!) to Zaino a freshly painted surface, and a few people have actually done this to no ill effect. Even though he makes some debatable claims too, I'd trust Sal Zaino over Zymol any day.
 
I think most people don't use Zymol because they like to spread misinformation like the "paint breathes" crap.



PAINT DOES NOT BREATHE ONCE IT'S BEEN CLEARED -- IT CAN'T!!!!



I also believe that their products are inferior as far as durability and ease of use, and, for the $$ that they charge, the appearance is not proportional to the price.



In other words, I can't justify paying 10 times more for a product that lasts 1/10th as long as other products, requires 10 times the effort and only improves the "look" of my vehicle by 1/10th of what any other product would have.



I also don't care for their numerous lies and deceptive marketing practices.



/Rant





:( Sorry, but I feel a little better now :)
 
Steve hit the nail on the head. Paint is not a living object and DOES NOT need to breath. It's simply a myth used to sell products.



Another myth is paint needs "feeding" oils, BS. For the same reason paint does not breath is the same reason it does not need to be fed.



It's all marketing BS, nothing more.
 
Most of the guys who think that paint breathes are old timers who remember them saying that back in the 60s when paint wasn't as high tech as it is now. Maybe at one point it did breathe, but as geeky said, once you clear coat it then it doesn't breathe anymore and doesn't need to.



I think Zymol charges what it charges because people continue to pay it. A product is only worth as much as a person will pay for it. If you've never heard of Pinnacle or P21S (because they don't advertise that much) then you would think that Zymol is the bomb. Its at all the car shows and on TV and everywhere advertising. That huge advertising bill is coming back to the customer through the product price.
 
I first want to say zymol people are funny.



Steve and showroom are correct but I will elaberate on the subject a little more.



The breathing process was used in the 80's to help customers understand how great carnauba wax was for your car. When a car is freshly painted it has tons of solvents in it that needs to cure. That is why you shouldn't wax your car right away becuase you need a the solvents to cure. But once the solvents have cured you can put anything on your car.



Carnauba waxes have very little solvents in them compared to products like Klasse, Zaino, Blackfire etc. which have more. You'll find that a fair amount of bodyshops recommending carnauba because they are the safest type of wax you can use. Bodyshops are also starting to use carnauba waxes over a freshly painted vehicle because they will have a car painted and the customer will return with acid rain spots. Since Carnauba have very little solvents in them they will allow the paint to still cure yet protect from elements like acid rain.



3m tried to tackle this by making imperal hand glaze. Imperal hand glaze is a liquid wax with very little solvents. Well any liquid wax product have solvents so it won't dry up and harden like a rock. This product is ok but will not last as long as a carnauba.



Warning: Now I'm not sure because I've asked this question to several people and haven't received a good responce besides yes or no. Most bodyshops and dealerships I've called are using high end waxes (zymol) becuase soft carnauba waxes contain more solvents than pure carnauba waxes.



Now I will say zymol is good but not THAT good to spend serious $$$ for it. When I went to sema this past November I spoke to a few companies that are marketing high end carnauba waxes. For those who were also there you may know some of the vendors that were there. There is only so many ways to produce a good quality carnauba wax. One vendor I might add had a serious thing against zymol. He said that out of all of their waxes there are really only four formulas. The rest of the time they just change the packaging, color, and fragrance. He said if their were so many formulas why don't you see other manufactures producing more than four. I have to admit he had a point. P21S, Pinnacle, Blitz, Meguiar's, Eagle One to name a few really don't go beyond 2 or 3.



May I say interesting???

:nixweiss
 
I've been using Zymol Concours since 1993 with great success. Like some other high end products, you have to learn the process for applying and removing the wax. Once you have it down, it's no slower than applying any of the others out there.



One thing that I have noticed is that a little product goes a VERY long way. I've had my current jar of Concours for almost 4 years. It still has 30-40% remaining. The packaging is outstanding, as the o-ring seals real well preventing the product from drying out.



As for the price, a quick search on Google found me at Autogeek where they want $120 for a jar of Concours. Still pricy, but not $180. I certainly wouldn't use it if I were detailing other's cars, but I have no problem using it on my own rides.
 
Edwin,



How do you like applying the "Concours" wax with your bare hands and has this created any problems? Does it rub on/off as easy as say Zaino? How is the smell? Does it smell like exotic organic banana, Carnaba, etc. as claimed by Jonathon and the Zymol website?



Please enlighten me as why you paid $150.00 for a small jar of "organic, exotic" wax.



Thanks
 
People's wax preferences = People's food preferences.



Too many choices + Too many tastes.



It's funny how auto wax can be tossed in the same pot as religion and politics.



I'd like to see a detailing segment on CROSSFIRE.



Wonder what wax Begala - Novak - Caraville + Tucker would use!
 
jadedjeepster said:
I first want to say zymol people are funny.



Steve and showroom are correct but I will elaberate on the subject a little more.



The breathing process was used in the 80's to help customers understand how great carnauba wax was for your car. When a car is freshly painted it has tons of solvents in it that needs to cure. That is why you shouldn't wax your car right away becuase you need a the solvents to cure. But once the solvents have cured you can put anything on your car.



Carnauba waxes have very little solvents in them compared to products like Klasse, Zaino, Blackfire etc. which have more. You'll find that a fair amount of bodyshops recommending carnauba because they are the safest type of wax you can use. Bodyshops are also starting to use carnauba waxes over a freshly painted vehicle because they will have a car painted and the customer will return with acid rain spots. Since Carnauba have very little solvents in them they will allow the paint to still cure yet protect from elements like acid rain.



3m tried to tackle this by making imperal hand glaze. Imperal hand glaze is a liquid wax with very little solvents. Well any liquid wax product have solvents so it won't dry up and harden like a rock. This product is ok but will not last as long as a carnauba.



Warning: Now I'm not sure because I've asked this question to several people and haven't received a good responce besides yes or no. Most bodyshops and dealerships I've called are using high end waxes (zymol) becuase soft carnauba waxes contain more solvents than pure carnauba waxes.
Click to expand...



Jadedjeepster, very interesting info, but I'm not sure I agree with all of it. My understanding is that 3M's IHG is safe to use on fresh paint not because it's a low solvent product (which I don't think it is) but because it doesn't contain anything which will 'seal' up the paint (i.e. waxes, silicones), thus allowing solvents in the fresh paint from evaporating.



Also, in regard to carnauba waxes having a low solvent content, my understanding (once again) is that since carnauba is such a hard, brittle substance, a large amount of solvent was required to transform it into a usable product (even more so with liquid carnauba waxes)? I've never heard of bodyshops using carnauba wax over freshly painted surfaces. All waxes (carnauba or not) will contain silicones and other substances which will prevent the paint from curing properly.



These are just my thoughts. I could be way off base....



I do agree that the Zymol folks are hilarious though!! :D They make me want to take my car to an Oxygen salon.
 
Ray



I will make a few comments:



1. there are several people on this board who dislike Zymol and are quite happy to tell everyone - esp the Zaino users. Zaino marketing strategy is based in part on the evil of carnauba wax. If you doubt this look at Carguys site where he does the comparison of a wax against Zaino and Sal’s letter makes unsupported claims about carnauba. That’s OK, but others are entitled to like and use Zymol without getting a serve! No doubt the Zaino dogs of war will be unleased because I made these comments. But unlike most who criticise Zymol, I have used it, as I have used Zaino. Zaino is a decent product for certain uses, but the performance does not match the hype in my opinion. I can get better results in a shorter time with fewer products and at a cheaper price.



2. Zymol does make some very good products. The Estate waxes are expensive and some over priced. Cars using Zymol products have won many Concours events.



3. Zymol Concours is not the easiest wax to apply and remove but it does give good results. It does not last as long as some other waxes. Head to head the new Swissol range I believe is better, easier to apply and remove, great shine and lasts longer than most waxes. Not cheap though.



4. I do not know whether paint breathes, it is certainly not alive! I have taken this to mean that new paint as it dries and hardens releases solvents. This is why they say only use "paintable" products in the 3 months after painting to allow these solvents to be released.



5. You asked a fair question despite the reaction you got from some quarters.



6. I will not resond to any flames. I have a policy of not arguing with fools in public. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
 
I'd argue that in regards to point #2 the vehicles competing in big concours events (Pebble, etc) are so well prepared that wax has little effect on the outcome of the competition.



Those types of events have cars with paint jobs that cost more than a typical economy car; they could use WD-40 as their wax and the finish would look outstanding. I believe that the exclusivity that Zymol tries to market plays a big role in why so many "concours winners" use Zymol. I'm certain that if last years Pebble winner had P21S or Souveran on it that it would have finished the same as it did if it had Zymol on it.



Just my $0.02.
 
Just to set the record straight, this info is from the 3M web site.



IHG Ingredients MSDS:



Water 60-80%

White Mineral Oil (Petroleum) 3-7%

Ceramic Materials and Wares, Chemicals 1-5%

Medium Solvent Naphtha 1-5%

Heavy Naphtha (Petroleum) 1-5%

Processed Castor Oil 1-5%

Glycerin 1-5%



No wax in IHG.



I used to use Zymol religiously on my Porsche 911 many years ago. Been to their factory 2X. Met Chuck Bennett the owner. Then I met Blitz, IHG, P21S and Pinnacle. Never went back to Zymol. Zymol is too hard to work with compared to the above waxes. Zymol spends so much PR on their marketing which in turn results in their high cost, in my opinion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top