Iron X, truly a safe product for finishes?

CosminTX said:
i had one issue with iron-x , since than i never use it anymore.

it happen on some bmw wheels , ironx got trapped where the cap is and even after rinse i still had some rusty drips that light stain the wheel. it clean with light polish but still , i will not take chance again.



i am not saying that the product doesn`t work but care should be taken when is used...:D
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I have had the same experience. Especially on three series. I go thru a container of Tornador blowing out the IronX. Looking carefully now at all cars I use it on.
 
Maybe someone with experience can chime in. IX is supposed to be safe if it contacts clear bra material (not damage the material). However, I've been afraid to use it on my one car for fear of it somehow staining or damaging the clear bra, which cost me $$$.



I don't plan on spraying it on there, but some may get on if I'm working outside. Has anyone IX'ed a car with a clear bra (XPel)?
 
I'd be slightly hesitent to do it.

Maybe put a strong coat of wax/sealant on it beforehand.



Clear Bra is porous . IMO, more poros than paint.

Forget the marketing..
 
PiPUK said:
And many of those who gain nothing are unlikely to gain anything from any discussion because they have already made up their minds!
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I politely disagree. I want to know if said product does what it's producer claims it will. I could care less if it is done with ingredients xyz instead of xyb. As long as it safe to use and any cautions are clearly listed on the label. The average detailer doesn't have a chemistry background and all the ten dollar words and high tech descriptions might impress some but until I do a hands on trial on various applications I remain suspicious. I often see so called "experts " throw out a lot of technical facts that sound important but will argue with each other that their hypothesis is the correct one and the other is all wet and mis-leading.To me a good example would be a chemist from product xyz may come on and explain why the chemical make-up of his product is the shitz and can't be beat when in all reality it sucks in real world performance. So when reading reviews of products my primary concern is does it meet or exceed the promised results. Is it a improvement on what I presently use ? Is it safe and cost effective ? Not that it's made of goat guts or gamma rays etc. One thing I won't do is knock a product I've never had the chance to use. I'll now get off of my soap box :)
 
CEE DOG said:
Iron X is perfectly safe and I have never had a complaint of damage to paint, aluminum, chrome, etc etc.



Here's a Q&A that might help.

Just scroll to the bottom

CarPro Iron X (500ml)



There are other products that change color but i believe they do so with or without iron. More of a gimmick. Iron X color change is not a gimmick.
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If you have used it on your Sky with good results, then it should be fine for me. My Saturn is the same color as yours
 
chefwong said:
I'd be slightly hesitent to do it.

Maybe put a strong coat of wax/sealant on it beforehand.



Clear Bra is porous . IMO, more poros than paint.

Forget the marketing..
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IMO this would negate the use of the fallout remover. You would cover up any fallout you want to remove so there would be little point in applying IX or similar.



Paul Sparks said:
I politely disagree. I want to know if said product does what it's producer claims it will. I could care less if it is done with ingredients xyz instead of xyb. As long as it safe to use and any cautions are clearly listed on the label. The average detailer doesn't have a chemistry background and all the ten dollar words and high tech descriptions might impress some but until I do a hands on trial on various applications I remain suspicious. I often see so called "experts " throw out a lot of technical facts that sound important but will argue with each other that their hypothesis is the correct one and the other is all wet and mis-leading.To me a good example would be a chemist from product xyz may come on and explain why the chemical make-up of his product is the shitz and can't be beat when in all reality it sucks in real world performance. So when reading reviews of products my primary concern is does it meet or exceed the promised results. Is it a improvement on what I presently use ? Is it safe and cost effective ? Not that it's made of goat guts or gamma rays etc. One thing I won't do is knock a product I've never had the chance to use. I'll now get off of my soap box :)
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I think you have encompassed the reasons why these discussions are important. The average brand representative and marketing man has no more idea about the chemistry than the average detailer. Yet, they are the ones with the big words and high tech descriptions. This is where the problem lies and where people like myself, TOGWT and Ron like to stand up. We cannot simply turn around and say that brand 'X' is talking total nonsense, we have to justify our claims and the only way of doing that is through technical discussion. Take, for instance, the case of a snowfoam which is sold as pH neutral and totally safe. No one will believe me if I tell you that it is in fact strongly alkaline, after all the average detailer assumes that those selling the products know exactly what they are talking about. That detailer has no reason to believe me because they don't know for sure who I am or my expertise. However, if I can get you an MSDS, list that it contains a significant amount of raw material 'Y' which is accepted as being alkaline and that the pH listed is 12 or 13 - then that person has some reason to believe me. Often, such analysis is adequate to answer whether a product is safe, whether it contains anything nasty etc. - so it answers many of the questions you have sought to answer.



In practice, very few people on here know me or my background but I get a lot of thanks for providing just the kind of technical info you disapprove of. I am pretty sure TOGWT and Ron would say the same and their posts clearly demonstrate a level of knowledge ahead of the norm (not that I will always agree, of course!).
 
"In practice, very few people on here know me or my background but I get a lot of thanks for providing just the kind of technical info you disapprove of. I am pretty sure TOGWT and Ron would say the same and their posts clearly demonstrate a level of knowledge ahead of the norm(not that I will always agree, of course!). "



Your statement is exactly what I had in mind with my original post. Three members with chemical knowledge or background and have the best intentions in their efforts but don't agree on certain situations. WHICH expert is one to agree with on any give occasion ? Many question Dr.G or Avi from CarPro but I personally look at each individual product and see if they accomplish the job at hand for what I purchased them for. I have never now or plan on in the future limiting myself to any single brand because a expert tells me he must be right and the other expert is wrong. If using the technical data is what trips ones trigger then go for it but I for one prefer hands on experience to determine the product I use or ignore. I have tried many products that have been touted as the game changer only to be placed in the round file at the end of my work bench.
 
I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given, all of which will help you to make an informed decision. After all, how can you fully understand and properly use any product unless you have all the facts? In the final analysis; it’s your vehicle, your hard earned money and your choice.



Commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is motivated by income, i.e. directly targeted at product sales, more so than an unbiased opinion. One of the advantages of being independent and not having to answer to shareholders



Choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon. The misinformation and myths that are so prevalent in the detail industry is the reason that detailers need to do research on their own. Treat all marketing claims as being just biased marketing claims and if you're lucky they will be based on truth and the company will operate ethically.



Be cognizant that I’m not a professional detailer; insofar as detailing is not my sole source of income, so a professional detailer that carries out ‘volume’ (time is money) type detailing may use different products and methodologies



When we offer advice on the use of various chemicals we only use our experience in this field to warn you of the possible repercussions of its use, if you choose to use Hydrofluoric acid that’s your choice, but do so knowing what the chemical is capable of; defending it by saying “I’ve been using it for years and it’s never done any harm” only clouds the issue for less experienced detailers. No one is trying to tell you what you should or shouldn’t use



Bear in mind that RonK, PiPUK and I all come from differing backgrounds. RonK has many years of experience as both a product formulator and paint care expert, PipUK is a chemist and from what I understand a product formulator with his own line of car care products. I’m a chemical Engineer with many years experience of Concours vehicle detailing.



In the context of the advice / guidance offered by us to this forum neither of us has any affiliation to the product mfg or products we recommend. However we may feel a certain chemical doesn’t constitute any real risk to the vehicles we work on (FWIW I will always recommend the most conservative risk as my experience is with classic cars and this ‘risk’ may be too conservative for a volume detailer or daily driver type vehicle) having said all that; the advice offered is ‘commercially unbiased’ but I do have a bias towards certain favoured product lines
 
I think where the small misunderstanding is when the experts get into technical terms such as ph levels , alkalinity , acid based , hydrophobic etc they loose the masses and could throw whatever else out there and for myself personally I have no idea what the hell the were talking about. Even other EXPERTS will chime in and disagree with their findings or facts. So it may be great that the 2% are informed with the chemical make-up of said product but I still want to just know "does it work". I'm not a fanboy of any given line but as others I have my favorites but don't limit myself to one product line. I come here to find out what works and what doesn't and share what I have found from my hands on experience with any given product. Now I have to head out to help a friend with a black Chevy truck. Hope everyone has a great day. :)
 
Paul Sparks said:
I think where the small misunderstanding is when the experts get into technical terms such as ph levels , alkalinity , acid based , hydrophobic etc they loose the masses and could throw whatever else out there and for myself personally I have no idea what the hell the were talking about. Even other EXPERTS will chime in and disagree with their findings or facts.
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To be honest, I think any professional user needs an appreciation of these technical terms (those listed are really fundamental). In the absence of this, you can make silly errors and do damage. Use a strong acid on aluminium rims and you are in trouble. Use a hydrophobic glass product on the interior and you will have permanently foggy windows. There are safety concerns involved as well. Things like MSDS are technical documents which a pro detailer is legally obligated to have. I suspect it would be expected by an insurer that they would likewise have some level of appreciation such that they could act accordingly in case of incident.



In terms of experts disagreeing, I would warn you that there are many fewer experts than you might believe. Many claim expertise and this is another merit to technical discussions - often the claimed expertise will disappear when probing.



Just for clarification, I do manufacture products but do not have a brand, all our products are sold via third parties. I specifically avoid reference to any brands we supply, not only because of the bias it would involve but also because I would rather no one know!
 
PiPUK said:
To be honest, I think any professional user needs an appreciation of these technical terms (those listed are really fundamental). In the absence of this, you can make silly errors and do damage...
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I'd go so far as to say that most anybody needs a basic understanding of such stuff, never mind the tiny specialized field of auto detailing. Helps life go a lot easier...
 
I think TOGWT hit the nail on the head with this remark (at least it rings true for me):



"I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given, all of which will help you to make an informed decision."



If anything, even when there is disagreement among contributors/"experts" (the subject of leather care is a good example), I still find some of the discussions stimulating. .....gets me thinking about some aspects of the topic I wouldn't have previously.
 
Here, after the great post by Kean, is my take.

Kean said:
I think TOGWT hit the nail on the head with this remark (at least it rings true for me):



"I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given, all of which will help you to make an informed decision."

It's a wonderful thing when one reads and take to subject to the area of the brain that promotes "logical thinking", rather than the part which promotes the "ego" part to take over.

We all have the opportunity to "learn something new everyday", as long as we approach the given subject with an open mind and not an "ego driven" mind.



Just a thought from an old fart who is an "A" type who wasted a lot of years, time and growing by not stopping and considering that just maybe I didn't really know it all.

Living is one thing, learning in the life we live is what it should really be about.



If anything, even when there is disagreement among contributors/"experts" (the subject of leather care is a good example), I still find some of the discussions stimulating. .....gets me thinking about some aspects of the topic I wouldn't have previously.
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A very wise and successful man told me something over a dinner we were having a few decades ago.

He said, "God gave you two ears, two eyes and one mouth. Learn that it means we should listen and look twice as much as we talk. That is how one learns and appreciates logic."

Leave you ego at the door if you wish to progress and really learn, be it business, craftsmanship or life.

No matter what you think you may have learned, today, that is past, for the most part, is behind you, the world and technolgy is moving very quickly, so learn to learn.

No matter of that which you may have thought you learned, it can become very outdated in as little as one day.
 
No ego here Ron. You know me better then that. Just expressing my thoughts on the OP's original post from my hands on experience. I stated the product has worked for me for over two yrs since I first tried it.It may not be the official decon product of the big 3 but it does the job damn well. I see people everyday on forums knock a product they have never tried. How many times have we heard I've never used product xyz but I have heard bla bla bla. The keyboard detailers all jump in and become experts. I'm not so naive that I strike a match into a gas can to check it's level. On the other hand when members (expert or pretend experts ) start throwing tech terms at each other in disagreement about how a product works or doesn't work I don't feel there is much to gain. 1. If I have a serious question about a product I contact the producer. 2. If I'm not satisfied by their answer or product it's gone. As for a changing industry, what was leading edge 6 months ago has been replaced already in many cases.I try and avoid the flavor of the moment but keep a open mind on whats changing in the world around me.We can all agree to dis-agree but when a thread goes on for 6-8 pages or more on how dirt particles are lifted off the car with various wash medias vs others then it's time for me to go make something shiny. :)
 
Someone had mentioned IronX fallout after a rinse from a wheel cap...

I could see how this could be a problem..



I washed my car about 2 hrs before and then, drove about 40 miles. Parked it in the sun for about 4-5 hrs...

Drove back another 40 miles or so. When I got home, I was pulling my wheels off to do some mechanicals...and there was a lil bit of water on the wheel hub after all this time and heat. So yeah, on the post of the IronX getting stuck behind a cap, I can attest to it being plausiable..
 
Never had issues if used per directions. Tar x on the other hand does not like clearbras as well as trix. Not my experience but a good detailing buddies bad experience. (Gave me the heads up). I don't use either but its good info. Iron x hasn't messed anything up unless it dries in the sun. Been using it since the iron cut days. Long ago



sent using my thumbs, mispelling most words
 
Byran, with out boring the hell out of everyone, there is a "rule" in the chemical world and such that is termed "reactivity", which translates to the higher the temperature the more active the chemical ingrediants become.

Think of the direction labels on laundry detergents and a washing machine, regarding hot-warm-cold water. The hotter the water or surface (in the case of paint and other surfaces that detailers come in contact with) the more "reactive" or caustic/acidic, the product will become.

Part of this is also due to heat expanding the substrate or surface, which just like cutting steel with a cutting torch, expands that substrate and weakens it, making it less dense so it may be blown away.

Much damage is done, unintentionally, by many, due to their lack of understanding of this basic fact of products that clean chemistry.

 
So don't use in direct sunlight like most products say. I just keep it simple, following directions for the most part and don't spray stuff on hot things.



sent using my thumbs, mispelling most words
 
Not the "sun" so much as the increase in the temperture of the suface and how that will cause the carrier solvents to flash off too quick for polishes, waxes, sealants, etc. More important when using water based products that have certain surfactant additives in them.

Makes the ingrediants much too "reactive" and may create some serious damage since the substrate is also softened and less dense due to the increased heat.

Being less "dense", (soft) it allows the chemicals to go down into the substrate.

Just starts "eating" at things it should not be eating at.
 
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