Inexpensive WalMart no rinse washes...

wannafbody

wannafbody
In my quest to find a OTC no rinse I hit the cleaning supplies isle at WM. I found 2 potential floor cleaner products that fit the criteria. The first is Murphy's Oil Soap which claims to be rinseless and safe for painted surfaces such as cars. Contrary to the name MOS does not contain oil but rather surficants derived from vegetable oil. It claims to be 98% derived from nature. At around $4 for a 32 ounce bottle this fits the bill for inexpensive. I added about 3 gallons of water to a bucket and then dumped some MOS in. Initially I felt as if I got the concentration too high so I continued to add water as I depleted it. The MOS felt lubricious, had great cleaning ability and wiped off leaving pretty much a filmless shine. I used both a grout sponge and MF covered mitt. The grout sponge rinsed cleaner in the bucket but had more drag across the paint. The MF covered mitt glided easier and picked up the dirt as well but retained it in the fibers similar to pictures of ONR. I washed my filthy work van and the MOS worked impressively. I sprayed the MF mitt with wheel cleaner and rinsed and the dirt and grime washed right out. The MOS is also biodegradable. Overall, considering the price MOS passed this test with flying colors IMO. I'd rank the cleaning ability well above QEW.



The Second product at WM was ARMSTRONG floor cleaner. This is a blue colored cleaner with a citrus scent. The price was higher at $5 for a 32 ounce bottle. The directions suggest 1/4 cup per gallon of water which would make the cost per gallon a bit higher than the MOS. At the suggested concentration the cleaning ability was very good and the lubricity seemed to be good with a MF covered mitt. The dirt releases easily from the mitt and stays in the bucket. It wipes clean leaving streakless windows. I'd also rank the cleaning ability of this product as higher than QEW. The lubricity can be increased with a couple sprays of your favorite QD.



I tested the PH of both products. The MOS has a higher PH of somewhere around 10 which is comparable to Megs NXT wash. The Armstrong product came in somewhere around 8.5. As a comparison Z7 wash is neutral at a 7 and Kit car wash is slightly acidic at about 6.



It's too early for me to declare a definitive winner as both are solid performers. Each product has it's strengths. Psychologically I feel that MOS may be less likely to marr paint since it feels a bit more lubricious.
 
Some price comparisons



QEW 32 oz for $18(plus shipping) makes 32 gallons

ONR 32 oz for $16 (plus shipping) makes 32 gallons

Armstrong 32 oz for $4.50 makes 16 gallons

MOS 32 oz for $4 makes approx 25-30 gallons



I believe you could add your favorite water based spray wax(OCW, AW, Z8) to either Armstrong or MOS for an additional gloss boost.
 
I'd be concerned about plastics and rubber gaskets/grommets on cars using these. It may be no worry, but I'll wait out a long term report before using it myself.
 
I don't believe that rubber would be an issue since the PH is similar to some common car washes. I believe the concern with Dawn comes from some type of specific ingredient that cuts grease.
 
GatorJ said:
No way, no how, not ever.



(quote)Murphy's Oil Soap is a cleaning product marketed by Colgate-Palmolive. It is available in a concentrated liquid form which is then mixed with water, as well as pre-diluted form which comes in a trigger spray bottle. Commercials for the product state that the product is ideal for cleaning wood surfaces.



Despite the name, oil soap does not contain oil; it contains potassium soap manufactured from vegetable oil. The other constituents of Murphy's Oil Soap are sodium EDTA, propylene glycol, fragrance, surfactants, and water.[1]



Oil soap is commonly used to clean and polish horse tack, such as bridles and saddles. The oil soap is also an excellent lubricant to use with water when throwing clay on a potter's wheel(end quote from Wikipedia).



Why, are you afraid of putting soap on a car? The label says 98% derived from nature.
 
I can tell you in my experience and many other's in the cleaning business murphys oil soap is a product to stay away from. It feels oily. It doesn't rinse away very well and attracts more soils to it. It is really thick. Definitely not good on wood floors. I can't point you to another website with a couple reviews of Murphys Oil soap. We use ph neutral chemicals on wood floors and tile all the time.



With that said, give it a shot. I'd be interested to hear if you like it better than chemicals specifically marketed as car cleaning products.



Tim
 
wannafbody said:
(quote)Murphy's Oil Soap is a cleaning product marketed by Colgate-Palmolive. It is available in a concentrated liquid form which is then mixed with water, as well as pre-diluted form which comes in a trigger spray bottle. Commercials for the product state that the product is ideal for cleaning wood surfaces.



Despite the name, oil soap does not contain oil; it contains potassium soap manufactured from vegetable oil. The other constituents of Murphy's Oil Soap are sodium EDTA, propylene glycol, fragrance, surfactants, and water.[1]



Oil soap is commonly used to clean and polish horse tack, such as bridles and saddles. The oil soap is also an excellent lubricant to use with water when throwing clay on a potter's wheel(end quote from Wikipedia).



Why, are you afraid of putting soap on a car? The label says 98% derived from nature.



Im wondering if the soap actually encapsulates dirt and moves it away from the surface of the car, similar to what ONR does with its polymers. I mean, the beauty of ONR is that the little dirt particles stick to your wash media and then get released in your bucket and float to the bottom when you rinse, thanks to those synthetic polymers. I feel like Murphys is more of a “conditioner” than a real “cleaner."
 
Since both ONR and QEW are also available in gallon sizes, not sure there would be that much savings. Gallons only cost about twice what the quart sizes do, which makes them much more economical.
 
dmw2692004 said:
Im wondering if the soap actually encapsulates dirt and moves it away from the surface of the car, similar to what ONR does with its polymers. I mean, the beauty of ONR is that the little dirt particles stick to your wash media and then get released in your bucket and float to the bottom when you rinse, thanks to those synthetic polymers. I feel like Murphys is more of a “conditioner” than a real “cleaner."



"I mean, the beauty of ONR is that the little dirt particles stick to your wash media and then get released in your bucket and float to the bottom when you rinse. "

I love ONR, but let's be real about the dirt is released in your bucket.
 
wannafbody said:
In my quest to find a OTC no rinse I hit the cleaning supplies isle at WM. I found 2 potential floor cleaner products that fit the criteria. The first is Murphy's Oil Soap which claims to be rinseless and safe for painted surfaces such as cars. Contrary to the name MOS does not contain oil but rather surficants derived from vegetable oil. It claims to be 98% derived from nature. At around $4 for a 32 ounce bottle this fits the bill for inexpensive. I added about 3 gallons of water to a bucket and then dumped some MOS in. Initially I felt as if I got the concentration too high so I continued to add water as I depleted it. The MOS felt lubricious, had great cleaning ability and wiped off leaving pretty much a filmless shine. I used both a grout sponge and MF covered mitt. The grout sponge rinsed cleaner in the bucket but had more drag across the paint. The MF covered mitt glided easier and picked up the dirt as well but retained it in the fibers similar to pictures of ONR. I washed my filthy work van and the MOS worked impressively. I sprayed the MF mitt with wheel cleaner and rinsed and the dirt and grime washed right out. The MOS is also biodegradable. Overall, considering the price MOS passed this test with flying colors IMO. I'd rank the cleaning ability well above QEW.



The Second product at WM was ARMSTRONG floor cleaner. This is a blue colored cleaner with a citrus scent. The price was higher at $5 for a 32 ounce bottle. The directions suggest 1/4 cup per gallon of water which would make the cost per gallon a bit higher than the MOS. At the suggested concentration the cleaning ability was very good and the lubricity seemed to be good with a MF covered mitt. The dirt releases easily from the mitt and stays in the bucket. It wipes clean leaving streakless windows. I'd also rank the cleaning ability of this product as higher than QEW. The lubricity can be increased with a couple sprays of your favorite QD.



I tested the PH of both products. The MOS has a higher PH of somewhere around 10 which is comparable to Megs NXT wash. The Armstrong product came in somewhere around 8.5. As a comparison Z7 wash is neutral at a 7 and Kit car wash is slightly acidic at about 6.



It's too early for me to declare a definitive winner as both are solid performers. Each product has it's strengths. Psychologically I feel that MOS may be less likely to marr paint since it feels a bit more lubricious.







Umm have you ever tried to do a similar experiment with regular car wash soap as a rinsleess wash? I have and it works. I posted about it here before but I was jumped on by the product collecting monkeys and the thread was locked. I find it interesting that you use floor soap and it's not really getting that negative a reaction but I mention using actual car soap and you would think I had recommended battery acid the way some of simpletons reacted to it.



Any ways since you are in the market for an OTC replacement for QEW/ONR and are obviously willing to experiment and try different things why not try a regular car wash? I am interested to hear about your results. I used Duragloss car wash and have also tried Megs Gold Class both worked perfectly. You will probably need to experiment with dilution ratios until you get what you want.
 
dmw2692004 said:
Im wondering if the soap actually encapsulates dirt and moves it away from the surface of the car, similar to what ONR does with its polymers. I mean, the beauty of ONR is that the little dirt particles stick to your wash media and then get released in your bucket and float to the bottom when you rinse, thanks to those synthetic polymers. I feel like Murphys is more of a “conditioner” than a real “cleaner."





I have not bought into that and never will. It's a laughable claim. I have used and still do use on wheels and jambs regular car soap as a rinseless wash and it works just a swell as QEW does. In fact I would say it actually cleans better. I get no marring or soapy residue left over it just works.





I can see the product monkeys starting to swarm here and getting this thread locked like they did on other thread where I dared to try something different for a rinseless wash and committed Autopian blasphemy.
 
Anthony A said:
I can see the product monkeys starting to swarm here and getting this thread locked like they did on other thread where I dared to try something different for a rinseless wash and committed Autopian blasphemy.



Anthony A said:
I posted about it here before but I was jumped on by the product collecting monkeys and the thread was locked. I find it interesting that you use floor soap and it's not really getting that negative a reaction but I mention using actual car soap and you would think I had recommended battery acid the way some of simpletons reacted to it.



Ever think of making a post without being negative and condescending? It sure would be a breath of fresh air for everybody. Maybe the reason your threads get locked is because you constantly bait people with that smugness you can't seem to shake. It really does make it hard to take any of your suggestions seriously when it seems like you only post in order to bash "product collectors" and "simpletons."
 
mikenap said:
Ever think of making a post without being negative and condescending? It sure would be a breath of fresh air for everybody. Maybe the reason your threads get locked is because you constantly bait people with that smugness you can't seem to shake. It really does make it hard to take any of your suggestions seriously when it seems like you only post in order to bash "product collectors" and "simpletons."



Couple things here.



First, what I say is true. If you consider it negative and condescending so be it but that doesn't make what I say any less true. The forum is filled with closed minded product collectors. They care more about collecting products than they do about detailing. There is no pretty way to say it.



Secondly, my threads don't get locked. One thread I participated in did.



Lastly, I couldn't care less if you or anybody takes my suggestions seriously. You should look at the content not the delivery. I'm not trying to sell anything or win political points. If you don't take something I say seriously because I didn't present it in a pretty enough form for you than it's your loss not mine. You might very well be missing out on a good piece of info just because it wasn't sugar coated and topped with mail order sparkly candies X 2.
 
Oil soap was used to wash cars in the 1920s, because the cars were painted with color varnish. In the late 1950s there was a car wash soap called Purple Magic that was great for washing cars , and it was oil soap. Oil soap is great for cleaning vinyl and leather. Oil soap will leave a little luster. If you washed your varnished wood work at home with oil soap , and you decided to revarnish , you would have to clean the surface very good to remove the coating that oil soap leaves so you would get good bonding. I wash my company van with oil soap a few times and it seemed to leave it shiny.
 
Anthony A said:
Couple things here.



First, what I say is true. If you consider it negative and condescending so be it but that doesn't make what I say any less true. The forum is filled with closed minded product collectors. They care more about collecting products than they do about detailing. There is no pretty way to say it.



Secondly, my threads don't get locked. One thread I participated in did.



Lastly, I couldn't care less if you or anybody takes my suggestions seriously. You should look at the content not the delivery. I'm not trying to sell anything or when political points. If you don't take something I say seriously because I didn't present it in a pretty enough form for you than it's your loss not mine. You might very well be missing out on a good piece of info just because it wasn't sugar coated and topped with mail order sparkly candies X 2.



OK, couple more things here.



First, true or not, condescending is condescending. Negative is negative. All it takes is a look through your posts to see that the majority of your posts have you calling out "product collectors" in a negative manner, with an obvious air of superiority. So how does that make you any less close-minded? Because some people like to do things differently, and spend their money how they see fit? Doesn't make anyone better or worse, just different.



And I can see merit in some of the things you suggest, believe me. I do read for content, but the tone is hard to miss at the same time. I know that we can learn things from you, just like you can learn things from others here. But the clearly antagonistic tone is what gets me. Speaking your mind is one thing, but going out of your way to talk down and belittle others for not doing things your way is uncalled for. Forums can be great tools for many reasons, so long as things stay civil. Thanks.
 
mikenap said:
OK, couple more things here.



First, true or not, condescending is condescending. Negative is negative. All it takes is a look through your posts to see that the majority of your posts have you calling out "product collectors" in a negative manner, with an obvious air of superiority. So how does that make you any less close-minded? Because some people like to do things differently, and spend their money how they see fit? Doesn't make anyone better or worse, just different.



And I can see merit in some of the things you suggest, believe me. I do read for content, but the tone is hard to miss at the same time. I know that we can learn things from you, just like you can learn things from others here. But the clearly antagonistic tone is what gets me. Speaking your mind is one thing, but going out of your way to talk down and belittle others for not doing things your way is uncalled for. Forums can be great tools for many reasons, so long as things stay civil. Thanks.



I don't talk down to people for not doing things my way. I applaud people who do things their way. Product collecting is just plain asinine. It's not a matter of doing things my way or not. It' a matter of it's stupid period. Products are tools to do a job. They aren't pieces of art work or valuable coins or any other thing that is collectable. They are chemical compositions made to do a job. That job is what matters. When your obsessed with the product you completely over look the job it's made to do. The result is eleventy million stupid posts discussing products like they are fine wines and where to get them and taking pictures of them on your shelf etc.



Yes negative is negative. Where did you get the idea that your supposed to be positive about stupid things. If a person came on this forum and posted that washing his car with battery acid and than topping it with moose crap worked great for him would you be positive about it. It's stupid no matter how you look at it and pretending it isn't by being positive is even more stupid.



Any ways this has gotten off topic. The thread is about some one trying a different product for rinseless washes and having success with it. I would rather keep it about that. I don't want to high jack this thread any more than it has been because I think it's a good topic. If you have an issue with me I will gladly deal with you through PM's if you feel the need to continue.
 
Anthony A said:
I have not bought into that and never will. It's a laughable claim. [referring to ONR's polymer encapsulation claim]



I know it sounds like ill conceived voodoo. I know I sure thought it was. But...



Over the past couple years, I've kinda gotten in to carpet cleaning. There are a TON of different ways to clean carpet. One of which is to use "polymer encapsulation" chemicals that are quite similar to ONR, but a lot stronger. They work by literally encapsulating contaminants in plastic. The carrier chemicals are allowed to evaporate, and all that is left behind is plastic coated dirt, which is then vacuumed up. It's certainly not the best way to clean really dirty carpet, but it is used with much success in maintaining very large carpeted areas.



ONR works in a similar matter on cars. The polymers do surround each little particle, keeping it away from your clear coat. Ever notice how weird your MF towels feel after they've been dunked in ONR then wringed out? That's cause it's doing the same thing to your microfibers as it's doing to the dirt.



Unless you're using something that is actually preventing or reducing contact between your clear coat and the contaminants themselves, all you're doing is lubricating the abrasives; the scratches they'll make in your clear coat will be very nice and uniform. :) Remember that the lubricants used in abrasive polishes are far, far more slippery than any lubrication any soap can give you, and yet the abrasive polishes still do their job very well. That job being to uniformly scratch your clear coat. It just isn't possible to lubricate dirt on a car (which is much more abrasive, and far more coarse than the abrasives in polishes) to the point that removing it isn't going to scratch your paint.



lawrencea said:
Oil soap was used to wash cars in the 1920s, because the cars were painted with color varnish. In the late 1950s there was a car wash soap called Purple Magic that was great for washing cars , and it was oil soap. Oil soap is great for cleaning vinyl and leather. Oil soap will leave a little luster. If you washed your varnished wood work at home with oil soap , and you decided to revarnish , you would have to clean the surface very good to remove the coating that oil soap leaves so you would get good bonding. I wash my company van with oil soap a few times and it seemed to leave it shiny.



Great info, man, thanks. Can't wait to give it a shot.
 
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