I need another alternative to m205

toyotaguy said:
NO, kick 205 out of the equation....205 is a terribly marketed product IMO, it leaves so much micro marring from the "non-diminishing" abrasives that no matter what paint you are working one, it will never have the gloss and clarity to match its potential. Its one of the worst "ultra finishing" products I have used on the pc. its not even close to a finishing step IMO...
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Huh, I'm one of the people who's questioned M205's finishing pretty much from the start, but I wouldn't go quite *that* far :think: On hard clear it finishes out pretty well for me...not as well as Menzerna, but awfully close to 1Z HG (and by that I mean I probably couldn't tell 'em apart in a blind test). I absolutely *cannot* spot any micromarring from M205 on hard clear, and believe me, I'ver *REALLY* tried (SunGun, etc.). But I guess there are a scad of variables in play here...I mean, a lot of people think I'm nuts when I see micromarring from M105!



EDIT: Actually, M205 did leave micromarring (and not all that "micro" either!) on the "machined finish" wheels on my Yukon XLD.
 
toyotaguy said:
NO, kick 205 out of the equation....it blows in comparison to menzerna 203 IMO. get a bottle and see for yourself...



105 and maroon wool is pretty aggressive...you should go from that to 105 on orange/white, then 203 on white, then finishing polish...if you were to do things properly...



205 is a terribly marketed product IMO, it leaves so much micro marring from the "non-diminishing" abrasives that no matter what paint you are working one, it will never have the gloss and clarity to match its potential. Its one of the worst "ultra finishing" products I have used on the pc. its not even close to a finishing step IMO. Menzerna 85rd finishes MUCH better, so does Menzerna 203 for that matter!



203 cuts better, finishes better and is MUCH more glossy all around!!!! remove the polishing oils and you can go straight to waxing/sealing on some paints...(any black cars always get hit with 85rd from me.)
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Respectfully, I have to disagree on the M205 portion of this post Eric. While I do agree that M205 can leave micro marring via DA on soft softer paints, it works very well on hard clear when using the DA and I absolutely love it on the rotary when using it to follow up after M105. It works especially well on fresh paints too. Less dust, nice short work time, and easy wipe off.



I love 203 as well, but M205 is no slouch IMO, you just have to dial it in. One thing I like about Menzerna is that they seem to work well on all paint types, where Meguiar's polishes can have issues with some paints....I just hate the long work times required for Menzerna





Dave KG did a great review on M205 here...

Meguiars #205 - The Ultimate Finishing Polish? - Detailing World







solekeeper. Don't take this the wrong way bro as I'm only trying to help, but you've been going round and round between products/pads for a while now, creating several threads asking for wet sanding/finishing advice, which is totally fine....but the honest answer is that your trying to do too much, too fast, with too few polishing steps. Your current products are not the problem. If you cut with M105/wool on the rotary there should be at least two more refining steps to follow, regardless of color. Working on a rotary, there is no magic product combo (at least non I've seen) that will remove 2000 grit scratches effectively and still finish out perfect in only 2 correction steps. While it varies between paint types, I've been able to do it in 3 steps many times, but I still feel it's best done with 4.





Rasky
 
I just think there are so many variables when it comes to polish/technique that it is hard to *really* compare things.



I can make M205 finish on just about *any* paint, with the exception of a few *very* temperamental paints.



I don't use it with a pc, almost always FLEX. I can also make it finish with a rotary, but can require another step on some paints for optimal gloss(PO85rd, or 3M UF).



For those of you having trouble with hazing on the FLEX with M205, try a stiffer pad--new hydrotech maroon, AB white, even orange on some paints. IME, the "vortex" created when using an orbital/soft pads can really cause a lot of the "ticking" seen when using finishing polishes with orbitals. Again, most of my experience with M205 is with the FLEX/rotary.



Also, I can't really make Menzerna powerfinish finish even reasonably close to M205....see what I mean? :D



Accumulator, I can't make the MF buffing system work on soft paints....still trying though.



Also, the more I think about the UPP thing I can't help but wonder (again) if we are comparing apples to apples. I had V2, then V3 (bubble gum) and neither would work under *anything* outside of KAIO or UPPC. The newer version with the "polycharger" sticker is much less temperamental. What a mess, huh? :D
 
RaskyR1 said:
Respectfully, I have to disagree on the M205 portion of this post Eric. While I do agree that M205 can leave micro marring via DA on soft softer paints, it works very well on hard clear when using the DA and I absolutely love it on the rotary when using it to follow up after M105. It works especially well on fresh paints too. Less dust, nice short work time, and easy wipe off.



I love 203 as well, but M205 is no slouch IMO, you just have to dial it in. One thing I like about Menzerna is that they seem to work well on all paint types, where Meguiar's polishes can have issues with some paints....I just hate the long work times required for Menzerna



Rasky
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FUnny how I feel completely opposite. I have issues with Menzerna not only on different paints but it's extremely dependent on the right temperature, whereas M205 works whether it's 35 or 85.





ebpcivicsi said:
I just think there are so many variables when it comes to polish/technique that it is hard to *really* compare things.



I can make M205 finish on just about *any* paint, with the exception of a few *very* temperamental paints.



I don't use it with a pc, almost always FLEX. I can also make it finish with a rotary, but can require another step on some paints for optimal gloss(PO85rd, or 3M UF).



For those of you having trouble with hazing on the FLEX with M205, try a stiffer pad--new hydrotech maroon, AB white, even orange on some paints. IME, the "vortex" created when using an orbital/soft pads can really cause a lot of the "ticking" seen when using finishing polishes with orbitals. Again, most of my experience with M205 is with the FLEX/rotary.
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I think this just about nails it. We're all in different cities, using different tools, pads, pressures, etc. etc. I too use M205 a lot and mostly via Flex, sometimes with Rotary and usually via PC 3-4" pads for tight areas. I too have no issues at all with M205 and its oils. If I use too much and wipe off prematurely, I'll need to do some extra wiping but that's true with any polish. I have yet to wipe it off and see residue holograms a bit later. At the same time, while I do like 203s how it cuts and finishes down, it's a b*tch to work with compared to M205 and it takes a while to wipe off all the oils even after working it in for a while.



For the OP, I agree with the few saying that you simply need a middle step. On some harder clear coats, you might get away with M105/wool and SIP/white (MAYBE orange) and the finish will still be pretty good, but M105/wool and M205/anything is a big jump. M205 can definitely correct a good amount and I use it non-stop for 1-step polishing details (just used it on a 2009 MB E550 and it worked great!) but most of the time I don't see it removing swirls instilled by M105/wool.
 
ebpcivicsi said:
.. the more I think about the UPP thing I can't help but wonder (again) if we are comparing apples to apples. I had V2, then V3 (bubble gum) and neither would work under *anything* outside of KAIO or UPPC. The newer version with the "polycharger" sticker is much less temperamental. What a mess, huh? :D
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Eh, I bet we'll never get to the bottom of this one :grinno: I too am using V2 and V3 :nixweiss I'm using it over/after 1Z Pro MP. IF I ever use up all my current UPP (and that's a mighty big "if" since I only use it on the seldom-driven S8), I might see how the newer polycharged version compares, though I'm getting more and more sold on FK1000P these days.
 
RaskyR1 said:
Respectfully, I have to disagree on the M205 portion of this post Eric. While I do agree that M205 can leave micro marring via DA on soft softer paints, it works very well on hard clear when using the DA and I absolutely love it on the rotary when using it to follow up after M105. It works especially well on fresh paints too. Less dust, nice short work time, and easy wipe off.



I love 203 as well, but M205 is no slouch IMO, you just have to dial it in. One thing I like about Menzerna is that they seem to work well on all paint types, where Meguiar's polishes can have issues with some paints....I just hate the long work times required for Menzerna





Dave KG did a great review on M205 here...

Meguiars #205 - The Ultimate Finishing Polish? - Detailing World







solekeeper. Don't take this the wrong way bro as I'm only trying to help, but you've been going round and round between products/pads for a while now, creating several threads asking for wet sanding/finishing advice, which is totally fine....but the honest answer is that your trying to do too much, too fast, with too few polishing steps. Your current products are not the problem. If you cut with M105/wool on the rotary there should be at least two more refining steps to follow, regardless of color. Working on a rotary, there is no magic product combo (at least non I've seen) that will remove 2000 grit scratches effectively and still finish out perfect in only 2 correction steps. While it varies between paint types, I've been able to do it in 3 steps many times, but I still feel it's best done with 4.





Rasky
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I appreciate you're feedback, I don't take it wrong in anyway. Yea, i don't think I'm trying to do too much, I think I'm just looking for a direct answer. But with so many variables, i guess that's impossible. I just get pretty stressed when I get a dark colored panel to be sanded/buffed, and it doesn't come out the way I want it to..



I see here, some have said I may need another middle step, but I think i'll do what toyotaguy said. I'll do the m105 on wool, m105 on orange, m205 on white and finish off with UF.



I really appreciate the feedback guys.
 
Yeah, I just cant ever seem to get 205 to work on any paint...range rover, porsche, bmw, lambo...I also do a test section and side by side it with 203...203 always comes out glossier and more defects removed for me. Thats with a PC though, not a rotary. I did just use my new griots DA and ill never buy a PC again. its smoother, quieter, and more powerful....maybe Ill give 205 a shot with that since you guys are saying you dont use it on a PC, but rather a flex.
 
solekeeper said:
I appreciate you're feedback, I don't take it wrong in anyway. Yea, i don't think I'm trying to do too much, I think I'm just looking for a direct answer. But with so many variables, i guess that's impossible. I just get pretty stressed when I get a dark colored panel to be sanded/buffed, and it doesn't come out the way I want it to..



I see here, some have said I may need another middle step, but I think i'll do what toyotaguy said. I'll do the m105 on wool, m105 on orange, m205 on white and finish off with UF.



I really appreciate the feedback guys.
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That would be a perfect 4 step correction IMO, and one that I do often. I may do the M105 orange step on the DA though to remove any deep holograms.
 
I am with Chad on that one! wool and 105 is pretty aggressive, orange and 105 is about 1/2 as aggressive IMO, but still cuts pretty well, even on the DA.
 
solekeeper said:
I'm going to get a spare hood, shoot it Jet black and sand it. Tape off half, and go to work.
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I ma also a true beliver of HDUNO this is amazing. I use the HDUNO orange pad to cut and finish with black foam finishing pad. Finally I go over with HDPOXY.
 
My personal substitute for 205 is:



Menzerna 106FF. Great on the harder clearcoats. Try it with diff pads.



Meguiars DACP No83

Used with skill and experience, Meguiar's forgotten classic No 83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish can also remove a wide range of swirls depending on pad, speed and technique. If I'm not mitaken, it has more cut vs M205.
 
I actually don't think there is a gap to fill between m105 and m205, especially on harder clears. As for soft clear, if you hit it real hard, e.g m105 and wool/cutting pad, and most of time i feel it may be more than it requires, m205 may for short to clean up what m105 leave behind. However, I still prefer menz powerfinish over m205. I find it more verstile & straight forward in terms of cut and finish especially when you can switch between DA and rotary. Could be my technique though..
 
gigondaz- Heh heh, hey... :wavey It's been a while since you and I had some major difference of opinion, then you go and mention two products that've given me fits :D



That Menzerna 106FF is good stuff but *OH MAN* the way it can fill/conceal! I simply won't use it until I've done *all* the correction with something else first. But yeah, it does make a nice finishing polish. The concealing, and the way it then dissipates to reveal the issues, is so incredible that I've simply quit recommending it lest people have nasty surprises.



And, heh heh, I simply loathe M83. I'd say it has a *different* cut than M205..not really *more*. Eh, hard to verbalize, but use 'em both side-by-side on chrome plating some time and I think you'll see what I mean (but then M205 is a finishing polish and M83 is geared more towards correction). Gotta watch for concealing with M83 too. I dunno, I just never liked that stuff...moderate correction, so-so finishing, concealing, and you sure do need to *completely* break it down at least on softer paints... Eh, probably just me as so many people like it :nixweiss
 
Accumulator said:
gigondaz- Heh heh, hey... :wavey It's been a while since you and I had some major difference of opinion, then you go and mention two products that've given me fits :D



That Menzerna 106FF is good stuff but *OH MAN* the way it can fill/conceal! I simply won't use it until I've done *all* the correction with something else first. But yeah, it does make a nice finishing polish. The concealing, and the way it then dissipates to reveal the issues, is so incredible that I've simply quit recommending it lest people have nasty surprises.



And, heh heh, I simply loathe M83. I'd say it has a *different* cut than M205..not really *more*. Eh, hard to verbalize, but use 'em both side-by-side on chrome plating some time and I think you'll see what I mean (but then M205 is a finishing polish and M83 is geared more towards correction). Gotta watch for concealing with M83 too. I dunno, I just never liked that stuff...moderate correction, so-so finishing, concealing, and you sure do need to *completely* break it down at least on softer paints... Eh, probably just me as so many people like it :nixweiss
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Great point!!! Great advice and great wisdom!

Actually, most polishes with correcting abilities generally also have some "hiding" abilities.



Seriously, have you come across anything that corrects mildly, but with minimal or no cover up? Does Meguiars have something like that?
 
gigondaz said:
Great point!!! Great advice and great wisdom!

Actually, most polishes with correcting abilities generally also have some "hiding" abilities.



Seriously, have you come across anything that corrects mildly, but with minimal or no cover up? Does Meguiars have something like that?
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this is what i need as well.



I give up the 205 as of today, I had a black mustang we painted the quarter and it had a little too much orange peel, so I decided to give it a light sanding. Polished with m105wool, then m105 orange LC, took it outside and correction looked really good.



Brought it back inside, hit it with m205White LC, and took it outside again. Literally in 2 minutes the florida sun erased the oils, and it looked like complete garbage. I was so angry, I threw out the entire gallon of 205.



Since Menzerna 106FF fills as well, (according to accumulator) (I'll take his word for it) does anyone have any other menzerna polish suggestions?
 
dschia said:
I actually don't think there is a gap to fill between m105 and m205, especially on harder clears. As for soft clear, if you hit it real hard, e.g m105 and wool/cutting pad, and most of time i feel it may be more than it requires, m205 may for short to clean up what m105 leave behind. However, I still prefer menz powerfinish over m205. I find it more verstile & straight forward in terms of cut and finish especially when you can switch between DA and rotary. Could be my technique though..
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Can someone explain a bit more about the Menz powerfinish?

Thanks!
 
PO203S power finish is a great polish, more or less the only polish I am using nowadays. But I would still reach for PO106FA to get the best and glossy paint when doing darker coloured paints.

And I must say that I don´t have the same experience as Accumulator. Sure, all polishes will fill more or less but when I wiped of the paint with a silicone remover, I did not get any

nasty surprises. Since we are talking about filling.



This is a photo series taken by Mario, a great detailer from Spain, when he did some testing to see how much 3M compunds where filling or not.



Animacin-50077-50383-4s.gif
 
porta said:
PO203S power finish is a great polish, more or less the only polish I am using nowadays. But I would still reach for PO106FA to get the best and glossy paint when doing darker coloured paints.

And I must say that I don´t have the same experience as Accumulator. Sure, all polishes will fill more or less but when I wiped of the paint with a silicone remover, I did not get any

nasty surprises. Since we are talking about filling.



This is a photo series taken by Mario, a great detailer from Spain, when he did some testing to see how much 3M compunds where filling or not.



Animacin-50077-50383-4s.gif
Click to expand...





out of those 2 polished you listed, which do you think weill perform best after m105wool,m105 orange? (keep in mind i'm looking for something with less oil than the 205, and maybe a little more cut) Which at this time seems impossible.
 
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