C/D Preview of 2007 Lexus ES350

[imported_truzoom]

Well Mr Southpark fan, I didn't know there was a certain level of seniority I had to attain before I was able to state or make a point on this BB...

Seniority has nothing to do with anything I said previously. Foremost, your condescending attitude towards the members here is just rude, and you specifically said "phew it's tiring dumbing things down", which seems like you are assuming we are all pretty unintelligent/simple/uneducated, but hey if you figured that out then I guess we are all wrong.

Mike I'll make my point in a little more detail for you, as a matter of fact I'll do it in an outline format so it's easy to follow:



1. you got people saying the ES is a fancy version of the Camry

2. they say this because of the many similarities between the 2 cars

3. apparently this seems to be a negative on this board

4. it's painfully obvious :hairpull that this is a common practice for auto mfg the reasons again being business and a little too over the heads of many posters here so i wont waste my time.



phew it's tiring dumbing things down.

^Was this really necessary? We're all adults here.



Then you made these assumptions:

1. so the concensus here is that it's bad, a very bad thing that auto mfg use the SAME parts, pieces - whatever on their various lines of autos.

As I pointed out previously, this is NOT what we think. It is far from the concensus.

2. therefore, if you're a detailer, you should then be using different product lines on different car makes right? after all it's bad when auto mfg use the same part on 3-4 different cars.

I can't even see how this association would be relevant. Platform sharing by automobile makers? Using different products on different cars? :think: And again, we never said it is bad when auto manufacturers use "the same part on 3-4 different cars."

3. if you're a professional auto detailer who thinks an auto mfg is cheating the public by using similar parts on various cars then it would only stand to reason that if that detailer uses the Meg line (for example) for all his/her details then that would by hypocritical right?

Same as above. I don't see what you are trying to prove here. Many professional detailers DO have a preference towards a single brand (e.g., Mike Phillips on MOL), but that is only personal preference or various other reasons not relating to be hypocritical about ideals on platform sharing.

4. so then you should (as a prof detailer with this mind set) be carrying at least 5-7 different product lines in each category (glazes, sealants, waxes, polishes, QDs ect) since you can't treat a honda accord the way you would a porsche.

First, many professional detailers here carry many, many brands of products, but it is very unlikely that they will treat one car better than the other in terms of treatment or products used. I've seen detailers here use Pinnacle Souveran (approx $60-$70 per 8oz) on average joe cars like Civics, while some detailers have used Optimum Car Wax($12.99 for 17 fl oz) on Porsches.



To make such generalizations about the members here and how they may be "hypocritical" in their methods because of their views on platform sharing is something I find to be offensive. And who are you to "[challenge me] to think and use [my] brain"? The last time I checked this was a discussion forum, not "Detailing Lessons by Professor MrLEXUS2u".



But hey I am a "Southpark fan", so what do I know?

 

[Rolla]

The point is, why buy an ES when you can have a Camry for less with same features? I like Lexus, but the ES is one I would never buy.



And yes I use the same wax on my Corolla as on more $$$ cars... I am sure you buy the $5000 Zymol since it reacts well with the special paint on cars that cost over $90k?

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

Everybody just noticed he made us all "wrong" regardless of if we agree or disagree?



If you agree you lose your sense of freedom. If you disagree you have no intellect (or are simply lazy).



I love these types of arguments!

 

[Corey Bit Spank]

The point is, why buy an ES when you can have a Camry for less with same features? I like Lexus, but the ES is one I would never buy.



And yes I use the same wax on my Corolla as on more $$$ cars... I am sure you buy the $5000 Zymol since it reacts well with the special paint on cars that cost over $90k?

blah blah blah toyota isn't a charity and it can make more money by sharing platforms blah blah blah I have been in business for the past 20 some years to figure this out blah blah blah that's why you should believe me (because I say I am credible, as though that's convincing).



I don't have a problem with them sharing platforms. I just have a problem with Lexus owners being convinced that the world is flat.

 

[SilverLexus]

I think I'm in an interesting position to comment since I own a 2004 ES 330 (had an 1997 ES300 before) and a 2001 Camry. Here's what has happened with our modest fleet:



1. The ES has been more solid and reliable overall than the Camry. Both are great cars overall.

2. The fit and finish on the ES is leagues ahead of the Camry. You get more solid joints. Our Camry has door handles that are separating.

3. The paint, while good on both, is much better on the ES. With my OCD detailing it looks almost mint minus some unavoidable chips.

4. There are more luxury items on the ES with wood trim, Nav, Levinson audio, nicer seats, power everything including pedals, rear sunshade, etc.

5. The ES has much higher resale value as do most Lexus cars. Even though its a popular car, it is no where near as common as a Camry.

6. The dealership experience with Lexus is a full planet in distance from the Toyota dealers in town.

7. The price difference with the comparable Camry is about $8K. Warranty differences are dramatic:

Basic ES-4 year 50K, Camry 3 Year, 36K

Roadtrain ES-6year 70K, Camry 5 year, 60K

Roadside Assistance? ES-Yes, Camry-No

8. The ES has higher side impact ratings wrt safety

9. There is a slight improvement in engine power over the V-6 Camry.



Is that worth $8K? I think so. Others may differ.

 

[MrLEXUS2u]

after reading your first paragraph I can see the circular logic you're using and still using your inflamitory comments to get others to rally on your side. After reading your first paragraph I made the decision to stop there as I can plainly see you're more concerned with twisting my words most likely to get others to rally on your behalf. What I wrote is pretty plain yet the point doesn't sink in with you.



let me point out the immediate mistake in your response....my "phew duming things down" comment was clearly, in no uncertain terms, aimed at ONE person and ONE person only. I would invite you to go back and re-read my post only this time start at the beginning. Somehow, someway you get the idea that i aimed that comment at 'other members" "other posters" "those of us on this board" a perfect example of your own little agenda. Would you like me to cut & paste the part where my post shows who the comment was aimed at? I think it would cause you much embarrassement which is why I am asking before I just go forward and do it.



You can see why I didn't waste my time with the remainder of your post. I told you that you were going to have to use your brain on this one and not just ramble on point-lessly.



Try it again. This time, only deal with what I wrote and don't speak as if you've been designated the official spokesperson for all autopia members. If you don't like something then say YOU don't like it, don't use terms like "those of us" "us" "we" ect.



Ok try again timmy

 

[MrLEXUS2u]

SILVER - have you had a chance to drive the new GS? Damn what a difference. I've owned all 3 generations of the GS and this one has to be by far the best. I was driving an '02 GS3, while having it serviced @ the dealer my service writer worked it so I would get an '06 GS as a loaner 2 weeks later I traded in the '02 for the '06. The ES is a nice ride also but I highly recommend a test drive in the GS.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

let me point out the immediate mistake in your response....my "phew duming things down" comment was clearly, in no uncertain terms, aimed at ONE person and ONE person only.

Um...that's a problem! I think truzoom was merely defending that member, and the honor of the rest of the members here...we're pretty democratic in that picking on people, even if it is "only" one member, doesn't go over too well, as I have a suspicion you are going to find out shortly.

 

[Sherman8r44]

I don't have a problem with them sharing platforms. I just have a problem with Lexus owners being convinced that the world is flat.

Well said, I couldn't agree more! :clap:

 

[SilverLexus]

have you had a chance to drive the new GS? Damn what a difference.

I have not yet but a neighbor may buy one soon. I have sat in one and I really like it. I had heard they beefed up the performance.



There seems to be a communication breakdown in this thread but I do think that there is another problem. Unless you have experienced Lexus service, it is hard to realize what being an owner is like. It really is a different car ownership experience. I've been treated as though I was the Sultan of Brunei since I bought my first ES. My third car will probably be another Lexus (maybe an LS or GS or IS) unless I buy a Porsche.

 

[SpoiledMan]

I'm just soooo glad that my sister, a Lexus owner, hasn't changed her thinking on the shape of the world. She only buys a car once every XXteen years but she says she will NOT buy another Lexus.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Unless you have experienced Lexus service, it is hard to realize what being an owner is like. It really is a different car ownership experience. I've been treated as though I was the Sultan of Brunei since I bought my first ES.

Been there and done that and when it comes down to it, I just want my oil changed. I'll eat before I get there. :chuckle:

 

[Spilchy]

I think I'm in an interesting position to comment since I own a 2004 ES 330 (had an 1997 ES300 before) and a 2001 Camry.

A 2007 Camry XLE V6 fully loaded with the Option Combination #B package is a bit different than a 2001 Camry.



I sat in the Lexus at the NY Auto Show and wasn't impressed. I just found it boring as an overall assessment.



After driving a BMW 3 series extensively and experiencing their service, for the same amount of money, I couldn't see myself choosing that Lexus (just my opinion).



Until Lexus stops making Toyotas in drag they'll never be considered in the same league as Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc... They have to separate themselves from Toyota or the car enthusiasts won't call it an elite automobile.



Nobody is saying that Lexus doesn't make a nice, highyl reliable, enjoyable automobile.



If you drove an IS 350, there wouldn't be this discussion

 

[SpoiledMan]

Until Lexus stops making Toyotas in drag they'll never be considered in the same league as Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc... They have to separate themselves from Toyota or the car enthusiasts won't call it an elite automobile.

Do they share more platforms than the Camry/ES/RX? They're all best sellers.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

If you drove an IS 350, there wouldn't be this discussion

Oh, was that the car that was supposed to be the distinct Lexus with no comparable Toyota model? If someone had sad that a long time ago, I would have stood corrected and we could have skipped a bunch of animosity. Maybe I misunderstood that ALL Lexus' were supposed to be distinct going into the future, not just certain models.

 

[imported_truzoom]

after reading your first paragraph I can see the circular logic you're using and still using your inflamitory comments to get others to rally on your side. After reading your first paragraph I made the decision to stop there as I can plainly see you're more concerned with twisting my words most likely to get others to rally on your behalf. What I wrote is pretty plain yet the point doesn't sink in with you.



let me point out the immediate mistake in your response....my "phew duming things down" comment was clearly, in no uncertain terms, aimed at ONE person and ONE person only. I would invite you to go back and re-read my post only this time start at the beginning. Somehow, someway you get the idea that i aimed that comment at 'other members" "other posters" "those of us on this board" a perfect example of your own little agenda. Would you like me to cut & paste the part where my post shows who the comment was aimed at? I think it would cause you much embarrassement which is why I am asking before I just go forward and do it.



You can see why I didn't waste my time with the remainder of your post. I told you that you were going to have to use your brain on this one and not just ramble on point-lessly.



Try it again. This time, only deal with what I wrote and don't speak as if you've been designated the official spokesperson for all autopia members. If you don't like something then say YOU don't like it, don't use terms like "those of us" "us" "we" ect.



Ok try again timmy

Again with the condescending tone.



As Setec pointed out, we're a pretty close group here, and I mean Autopia in general, not just those who I want to -- "rally on [my] behalf" -- .



The majority of the time we maintain civility and a supportive stance when discussing with each other (we'll always have quarrles and debates), and I find it difficult to participate on a forum where that isn't the case. But issues on the internet, just as those in person, do not get anywhere if the only thing being poked at is who is right/better/smarter.



That in hand, I personally have an issue with the fact that you felt the need to "dumb things down" for another member. Mikeyc is a good guy and really doesn't deserve to be treated the way you treated him; the same for any other member on this forum.



I'm not claiming to be perfect in any way and I've had my share of trouble on this forum, but when your posts constantly seem to demean others, I can't help but step in to try to maintain some sense of politeness.



But why I am even expending my energy arguing with you? You didn't even take the time to read the rest of my previous post. I guess I'll just leave it up to the moderators to handle this situation.



Sincerely, timmy.

 

[Brad B]

Well Mr Southpark fan, I didn't know there was a certain level of seniority I had to attain before I was able to state or make a point on this BB. Apparently I missed something in the rules so if you would kindly let me know at what level of seniority can I begin to openly and freely state my opinion be it good, bad or indifferent that would be most helpful. Is there an apprentice program I have to complete first? Please advise.

MrLEXUS2u,

You are right, you have every right to make a point and we welcome that. But posting on this forum must remain constructive, tactful and without any veiled attacks or disdainful comments.



It's the view of the Moderators that you are going astray here. Reel in the attitude and stay on topic. Life here will be much more enjoyable for you and the rest of the community.



If you have any misunderstanding feel free to PM me.



Thanks.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Do they share more platforms than the Camry/ES/RX? They're all best sellers.

DOH!! I forgot about the GX and LX.

 

[SilverLexus]

A 2007 Camry XLE V6 fully loaded with the Option Combination #B package is a bit different than a 2001 Camry.

Seth, I based my comments on the Lexus vehicle comparator on their website so the comparison was apples to apples.

She only buys a car once every XXteen years but she says she will NOT buy another Lexus.

What trouble has she had? I doubt her experience is normal judging by mine and the rest of the JD Power participants...

Been there and done that and when it comes down to it, I just want my oil changed. I'll eat before I get there.

Service is about a lot more than a buffet and free soda. It's about professionalism.

 

[SilverLexus]

Maybe I misunderstood that ALL Lexus' were supposed to be distinct going into the future, not just certain models.

I think this is true except for the ES. The Camry and ES share a powertrain and engine but the body panels and assembly quality have been very different for some time. The IS, GS, GX, and LS are unique. I think most of the line will be as they continue to roll out the L-finesse models. The LX was built off a Toyota model but that is changing I believe.



As I said before it may be an issue of price but at $8K apart on the Camry and ES, I think the ES is a tremendous bargain especially with the new engine and exhaust. I think exhaust systems on the ES350 for 2007 are distinct from the Camry.