C/D Preview of 2007 Lexus ES350

SilverLexus said:
Seth, I based my comments on the Lexus vehicle comparator on their website so the comparison was apples to apples.
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It's apples to apples when they are at least based on the same *current* platform and not generations apart.





What trouble has she had? I doubt her experience is normal judging by mine and the rest of the JD Power participants...
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Number one on her list is that the other owners are "snobs." Second was the cost of repairs/parts. Surveys are not *hard* facts. What's a problem for customer A isn't for customer B and vice versa.



[Service is about a lot more than a buffet and free soda. It's about professionalism.[/QUOTE]



My sister went with me to take my Integra in for a minor service(yeah, the little $20k car) and didn't see/feel all that different than she did at the Lexus dealer while her car is/was considerably more expensive. Oil changes don't need to be expensive for *me* to feel like I have a better car. I'll take a very good and reliable car with the $20 oil changes and donuts. I'll buy my own food.
 
SilverLexus said:
I think this is true except for the ES. The Camry and ES share a powertrain and engine but the body panels and assembly quality have been very different for some time. The IS, GS, GX, and LS are unique. I think most of the line will be as they continue to roll out the L-finesse models. The LX was built off a Toyota model but that is changing I believe.



As I said before it may be an issue of price but at $8K apart on the Camry and ES, I think the ES is a tremendous bargain especially with the new engine and exhaust. I think exhaust systems on the ES350 for 2007 are distinct from the Camry.
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The GX is a 4 Runner. That's also a VERY expensive exhaust and I'd think that you could at least get a turbo to go with that for $8K.:D Add side curtains to the Camry(if it doesn't have them already) and the two cars are equal in safety. An extended warranty can be had with some of that leftover money too.



Lee, be okay with what you bought and don't feel that you have justify it to us here. You feel you got value and that's what matters. Take this from me who wouldn't buy either one of them with the TL being less expensive, more fun and easier on the eyes. But that's just me.
 
MrLEXUS2u said:
phew it's tiring dumbing things down.
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Gee thanks Mr. Lexus. I no too smart . . . my head hurt now from thinkee. Thanks for insulting my intelligence. I really appreciate it.



The reason why I didn't understand your comments was because I don't agree with your assumption that everyone feels that platform sharing is a bad thing. As we were not operating under the same assumptions it made your comments difficult to interpret.



By the way I not only graduated from college, I also have a masters degree. Me no dumb after all . . . :grinno:
 
It's apples to apples when they are at least based on the same *current* platform and not generations apart.
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I think you misunderstand. The warranty info was based on the comparator, my earlier comments refer to my experience with the Camry. I compared it to both my 97 ES and the 2004 ES.



Number one on her list is that the other owners are "snobs."
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There's no reason for personal attacks here. I have not seen many Lexus owners that are snobs. In fact, most are pretty happy when I meet them at the dealership since there is no BS to contend with since the service consultants are very honest and hardworking.



Lee, be okay with what you bought and don't feel that you have justify it to us here.
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I have been very nice and diplomatic here pointing out very real differences, that's all. I'm not justifying anything. I'm very happy with my car and I know the Camry well and its no ES. ;)
 
My sister went with me to take my Integra in for a minor service(yeah, the little $20k car) and didn't see/feel all that different than she did at the Lexus dealer
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Apples and oranges. We are not comparing Lexus and Acura, we are comparing Lexus and Toyota.
 
SilverLexus said:
There's no reason for personal attacks here. I have not seen many Lexus owners that are snobs. In fact, most are pretty happy when I meet them at the dealership since there is no BS to contend with since the service consultants are very honest and hardworking.
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Not a personal attack at all. You asked me why she felt the way she did and I told you.



I have been very nice and diplomatic here pointing out very real differences, that's all. I'm not justifying anything. I'm very happy with my car and I know the Camry well and its no ES. ;)
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That's cool. Being a Honda guy I catch some flack for "specific output" on occasion and know the feeling.



As far as comparing the Lexus to the Acura, that was again in response to how my sister felt the treatment was for her hard earned dollar. It's a service to service comparison and relevant to your previous question.
 
Ok everyone...you are walking the line again. We have had several complaints.



Please pull back the sarcasm. Lighten up. Bite your tongues and wear thick skin if you don't like other peoples on-topic opinions. And comments aimed at other participants must stop now.



There was often good information in this thread. Don't make us pull it and take action.



Last call.
 
I can say something like BMW & VW are the same car (personally I think they are but....). :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: .







Non constructive content removed by Moderators. 3-9-06
 
I think you're think VW and Audi....... The Audi dealer out here has poor service and zero amenities in the dealership. heck, they'll make you wait 20 mintues to talk to a sales person.



i went in to look at the 06 IS250 yuesterday. I found it odd that a dealership has leather couches, a fireplace and a capuchino (sp?) bar in the "reception area", someones paying for that. Also, they have a stock of 10 IS's (didnt ask about the others) but a fleet of 100 loaner cars???? The sales people were all in suits and ties and were so nice that it seemed fake. They were helpful and all but it wasnt a "how's it going?" friendliness but more stuffy. This also may be atypical but the other customers "seemed" a bit "high end" or "blingy", strange mix. Overall I didnt feel very comfortable there.



The customer service is much better at the Acura or BMW dealers, more down to earth and real feeling. Almost more helpful because it didnt seem like they were trying so hard to make you feel like you were "somebody" and concentrated on helping with your needs. And overall the 3 series is much sportier and peppier felling, has more rear seat room and you can get fold down rear seats. Some of the standards in the IS are extra in the 3 (like metallic paint, heated seats, moonroof), but really it comes down to personal preference and thats why there are so many choices.
 
Also, they have a stock of 10 IS's (didnt ask about the others) but a fleet of 100 loaner cars????
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Chuck, most Lexus loaners are ES and RX models. The reason you only saw a few ISs is that they are selling like hotcakes even at MSRP. Both models of the IS are extremely popular right now. The IS350 can be very hard to find.



Lexus stocks lots of loaners because they like to give them out easily since much of the clientele are busy professionals some of whom can't sit and wait on an oil change.



In my experience Lexus dealers are much more friendly than BMW or Acura dealers, perhaps your local dealer is not up to par. Our local BMW dealers are improving greatly but still don't offer the same level of service as Lexus...same for Acura but our BMW dealers in Georgia edge Acura. JD Power tracks dealership quality and usually Lexus is the leader sometimes Infiniti is. Needless to say Toyota is down the list.



I like the new 3 Series a lot. We have been thinking for some time about getting one for my wife. The IS though has equally good performance...it just depends on your preferences. The IS350 is faster in acceleration than the 330i but the handling on the 330i slightly edges out the IS in my opinion. The IS is probably slightly better in terms of fit and finish.
 
MrLEXUS2u said:
I can say something like BMW & VW are the same car (personally I think they are but....). :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: .[/COLOR]
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:LOLOL NOT! Apples and oranges!



I'd love to hear in (an adult fashion) your reasoning behind this.



I owned a Jetta VR6 with the sport suspension package (225/45/17's) and my folks own two BMW 3 series. The handling is awesome on the BMW's.



The BMW blew the doors off the Jetta in every aspect except acceleration. The same applies to the Passat that my friend owns.



If anything the Jetta mirrors a Toyota more.



Speaking of BMW's, I was at the dealer with my father droping off the car for new brakes (free of charge - awesome BMW lease service) and I sat in the new M5. Holy Christmas what a machine!
 
[quote name='MrLEXUS2u']I can say something like BMW & VW are the same car (personally I think they are but....). :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: .



Actually, the BMW & VW aren't the same, but the VW Passat and Audi are.



I've been listening to this conversation going on for awhile now and I don't understand why many are quick to jump on the "Lexus is just a over hyped Toyota" but no one is calling the Audi A4 an "over priced Passat" Or for that matter, discussing that just maybe, the Porsche Cayenne is nothing but an expensive Toureg, at least in the base model.



Anyone who's ever owned an Audi knows that you can go to the VW dealer and get interchangeable parts quite ofter at a much lower price. I've owned 4 Audis and never had an issue with that discussion. Heck, I was buying A8 parts and accessories at the VW parts stand.



I think the valid question is why do some people have an inherent issue with Lexus/Toyota, Acura/Honda, and to a smaller extent, Infiniti/Nissan? I'll ask the question: Do people apply a different standard to Japanese car companies than they do to the Europeans?



Disclaimer: I own an Audi A8 and Lexus GS300AWD, as well as a Honda Odyssey. I have owned 2 Mazdas, 4 Audis, 2 Saabs, 1 Datsun, 2 Acuras, 3 Chryslers and 2 MGs.
 
SamIam said:
[quote name='MrLEXUS2u']I've been listening to this conversation going on for awhile now and I don't understand why many are quick to jump on the "Lexus is just a over hyped Toyota" but no one is calling the Audi A4 an "over priced Passat" Or for that matter, discussing that just maybe, the Porsche Cayenne is nothing but an expensive Toureg, at least in the base model.
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I think the problem is the Lexus is holier than thou crowd.
 
Boy, this thread has really gotten off track. I only started it because of a previous Lexus/Toyota discussion which ended basically with "they may share some engineering/parts now, but not in the future", and then I open my Car & Driver to see a different story. I was posing an honest question, which was answered some time ago that the ES is/will be a Camry derivative, while some (all?) of the rest of the line will be models discrete to Lexus.



The whole platform engineering/sharing angle has been beaten to death in other threads, and I don't think there is an argument that it happens at GM, Ford, D-C, VW-Audi, and on and on. Since we're now down to he-said, she-said remarks, I'm wondering if I should just delete this thread (since I am the OP). Opinions?
 
I am new to this forum and welcome input from one and all. I am considering a new ride and am interested in the upcoming Lexus ES350. I understand the previous concerns regarding a Toyota related product and the unusual dashboard but I can accept both areas of mention.



My sister owns an ES300 and I have driven the unit extensively and it is the reason I am looking at the Lexus product. I am interested in the "handling aspect" of the ES350. I use Consumer Reports online and have reviewed the ES330 and and CS lists some negatives regarding agile handling. My sisters ES300 handles nicely IMO. I also find that CS finds a negative aspect with every car including they cars they recommend. There is no review on the ES350 as of yet.



Any input is appreciated or contact me at: [email protected]



"Steel guitar is where it are"
 
I use Consumer Reports online and have reviewed the ES330 and and CS lists some negatives regarding agile handling.
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They had issues with the 2004 I have and it is quite good for a luxury sedan. I would suggest an IS if you want sports car type handling but if not you will be pleased with an ES.
 
SilverLexus said:
They had issues with the 2004 I have and it is quite good for a luxury sedan. I would suggest an IS if you want sports car type handling but if not you will be pleased with an ES.
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Thanks for the feedback. I already have a BMW Z4 so I can have fun with the sport aspect of driving. I tried the IS and it handles nice but it has run flat tires with no spare. The sticker on the window from Lexus states that the tires may only last 14,000 miles. There are people complaining about poor milage from run flat tires on other cars also.



I will wait for some owner reviews to come out on the ES 350 before I make a decision.



Thanks again,



Steel guitar is where it are!
 
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