Blackfire still going.....

J

JonB

New member
I spent $150 on Zaino stuff last night getting all ready to strip the Mustang and do the Z treatment. This morning, I pulled the car out of the garage, rinsed it down and noticed the water was still beading/sheeting extremely well. Now this is several months that the Blackfire has been on the Mustang. It has been through quite a few washes, with Z7 only. The surface was not slick at all, but there was plenty of shine and evidence that there was still plenty of BF on the surface. OK....I was going to do a dawn wash, but ended up doing another Z7 wash. The car looked great still! Hmmmm.....now what. I was about to throw a layer of ZFX on, but the feeling just came over me and I just layed on a layer of BF cuz I was all psyched up to do some detailing. I still love that BF shine! It didn't really need another coat, but what the heck...it took about 1/2 hour. I think that the doubts about the durability of BF have been based mostly after using the BF wash. When using Z7, the shine and beading/sheeting has held up better than I had originally thought. I guess I will Z the car next time I really have to re-prep the surface.....



H
 
How many coats of Blackfire were applied to the car?



To me, a non-slick surface is evidence of degradation of the protectant layers, indicating there is little if any product left on the car.
 
'puter - slickness of paint is not always an indication of protection. Some resins and synthetics are softer than carnauba, so the finish may not feel as slick (because it's softer), but is still protected.
 
Perhaps I should have specified that BF starts out slick and tends to lose slickness after washes.



If it starts out slick and gets rough, you either have a lot of contaminants or some of the protectant and / or paint has been abraded / worn / ??? away. In a short term case like this I'd be pointing my finger at the Blackfire.



Thoughts welcome :)
 
As has been well documented, BF does not offer the "slick" feel of Zaino or even carnauba. If the surface is well prepped and treated with product correctly, it will feel "smooth" to the touch but not slick like many of us are used to. I've topped BF with Souveran to add the slick feel I like but I fear that the BF shampoo is so strong that it eroded the carnauba before it wore off.



Anyway, I'm not sure the traditional method of product durability evaluation can be used completely with BF. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure how to quickly determine if and how much BF has worn off, which in turn would tell me when I needed to reapply and establish a durability timeframe. Perhaps CMA needs to be involved in this.
 
I agree that it is somewhat more difficult to determine the durability of BF than say Zaino. I have noticed that even Zaino tends to lose some slickness after a few washes also....just not as much as BF. With both products, the QD seems to bring back some of the slickness. I was fairly surprised to see the surface bead today. It had 6 coats of BF on it, but the car was really dirty....I parked it on a dirt parking lot and it was a mess! :scared

It was looking pretty good after just the rinse, and even better after the Z7 wash. I did use the BF QD prior to layering the protectant and it did give the surface some slickness again....



From what I saw today, I am certain that there was a healthy layer of BF on the surface, despite the lack of slickness. So we have to look at other properties to determine whether it needs replenishing. I guess shine and beading would work, similar to carnauba.



Just an added note, the new layer of BF did a great job at filling in the minor swirls that were present....



I think that I may end up topping it with IHG and Souveran next time before stripping just to see how that looks.



H
 
Has anyone tried to call CMA about the slickness of BF. Or how come it loses it's slickness after a few washings... I find it hard to believe that a regular car shampoo would remove BF after 2 - 3 washings.

But then again I have never used Blackfire before. It would be interesting to find out. If nobody finds out in the next couple of hours I'll try and call. I'm pretty curious myself??? jj
 
OK, still learning here, and after these comments will be banned from the site, but.......



Is beading the only indication of wax still being on the car? or is it a mixture of slickness and beading? I used GC liquid wax back in Nov (this is where I get banned) and went all MN winter using the gas station touchless car wash. Have hand wash once so far this year and noticed that my car, though not slick anymore, it still beads just fine. Now I read my wax does not last more then 2 weeks on a daily driver, yet its been 5 months??



PS yes I plan to clay and prep and detail here very soon, dont worry, but will probably keep going with GC
 
I did the 3 stage wax process from Meguiar's a minimum of 3 times a year and topped it with Gold Class. I found that it would last at least 3 months and often 4 months. Depending on the conditions your finish has gone through between treatments, your wax can last quite awhile. Different waxes are designed for different things. Souveran looks amazing and applies in a breeze, but it wears off after 6 weeks. Gold Class doesn't apply as easily and has fillers that can stain trim, but lasts much longer and looks great. With every product there is a trade off somewhere.



With most waxes the beading is a great indicator of the wax still being on your car. Usually when the car stops beading, the wax is gone. That rule doesn't always hold true with polymers and different sealats though. Blackfire doesn't bead, it sheets. It doesn't mean that its not on the car though. I think you should probably reapply the wax after 5 months for sure. I don't know many waxes that will last longer than that.
 
Beading is not always a true indicator of protection either. "Fresh" clear will bead, even if nothing is on it. This is why it can be very hard to determine when to rewax or reseal on a vehicle less than a year old. You can take a car that is a couple years old and not beading and then if you cut down the clear to expose "fresh" clear it will bead again with no protection.



While it may not be an absolute indicator of protection, it's sure fun to look at all the purdy beads.:D
 
ShowroomLincoln said:
Beading is not always a true indicator of protection either. "Fresh" clear will bead, even if nothing is on it. This is why it can be very hard to determine when to rewax or reseal on a vehicle less than a year old. You can take a car that is a couple years old and not beading and then if you cut down the clear to expose "fresh" clear it will bead again with no protection.



While it may not be an absolute indicator of protection, it's sure fun to look at all the purdy beads.:D
Click to expand...



Fresh paint / clear beads like crazy, but after it ages or is permeated with abrasives it sheets.........
 
I have seen a car where the water sheeted off of bead again after .1 mill of clear was removed. It was a VW to be exact.
 
Do you guys think that that BF polish could be used to remove a sealant like Z or Meg #20??



I have also noticed BF losing slickness after a very short time..The shine is still pretty good but I like that slick feel...If BF will last 3-4 months and then you top it with a good wax like Blitz...I would think since Blitz will last at least 2 months by itself you can add that to BF's durability and get a good 5-6 months of protection..That is if you dont put any more wax on..
 
I have my own suspicions about BF durability and loss of slickness, and it has nothing to do with car soaps... but that's another story.



I got to thinking about BF, Liquid Souveran, and Platinum (as all three seem to be VERY closely related) and the contents/ingredients aspect of each. I've read from each manufacturer that each product contains mineral spirits. So, my theory (question) is this: How can any product that contains these types of solvents have the capability to truly layer? Wouldn't the solvents basically be removing the last coat, sort of like applying a coat of carnauba on top of another coat? Sure, it can increase gloss just like appyling multiple carnauba coats, but it's my train of thought that it can't actually build on top of each coat to increase protection, like the other sealants. This is also one reason I think durability is suspect...



:nixweiss
 
Dont want to sound like a zealot, but just stating the facts...one of BFs main advertizing pooints has been low solvent count, about 14-15% by volume. I talked to Terry about this and said that he wanted this one for layering and two to be safe for paint. RonK mentioned that solvents used in detailing products (wax, sealants) really isnt that bad for paint though. Terry also mentioned that other sealants out there do contain more. Klasse is around 60%, I forget Zaino, but it was higher than 15%. Not bad or anything but just the facts. So go BF or Zaino away.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top