1966 Pontiac Lemans Show Car, Full Sanding and Polishing

[imported_JoshVette]

Final Pics of the Lemans completed and put back together with lights, bumpers and trims and waxed two times are on the last page. It look killer. 9-19-08





The complete write up is now finished, the majority of the process is at the bottom of this page and on the rest on page 2. The final pics are on page 3. If you have questions please read through the whole right up first since I wrote it in order for everyone to understand what it takes to do a process like this.



Also I put text that I felt more important in Bold so it would be easier for you to find....



Thanks





Okay, here's the teaser pics. I will get an early start tomorrow with the lengthy write up.:bigups



I spent about 30 hours just polishing the paint.

I will do a very indepth write up covering my exact movements on this entire process so please stay tuned.:bigups



Josh

 

[imported_rydawg1]

NICE!!!!!!!! Can't wait to see the afters.



By the way those white MF's from Target are the best I have ever used. They are for one use only, but for the price they are a bargain. I get no marring at all, no die transfer, and no lint.

 

[imported_d00t]

Stunning teasers! I noticed the stack of pads you've accumulated. At what point do you decide you need to start with a new pad? When the entire pad is soiled, does it lose cutting power so it's a good idea to switch?

 

[iDetail]

amazing. love the half and half shots.

 

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

Subscribed!



I love those towels as well (my favorite by far is Meg's supreme shine mf though) and I have the same tripod for what it's worth haha



Half/half looks amazing, I'm really looking forward to hearing about the process, mostly about what products were used with the pads since you went from PFW to white. Good job man!

 

[somebody]

Wow, very impressive I look forward to the full writeup.



-Brandon

 

[imported_JoshVette]

NICE!!!!!!!! Can't wait to see the afters.



By the way those white MF's from Target are the best I have ever used. They are for one use only, but for the price they are a bargain. I get no marring at all, no die transfer, and no lint.

Yea, I can typically get 2-3 used out of them at the most, but the ones that start getting dirty or whatever get used on engine bay, rims and interior.:bigups

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Stunning teasers! I noticed the stack of pads you've accumulated. At what point do you decide you need to start with a new pad? When the entire pad is soiled, does it lose cutting power so it's a good idea to switch?

It's kind of a learnt knowledge about when the pads are needing to be switches, but basically I'll use one till it starts caking up to the point of spitting out alot of dried compound build up and or it starts to skip a lot and I can't really hold it steady anymore. Alot of times it just starts to cake up and leave a nasty mess as you're buffing.



Most times I'll try to get the entire side of the car with one pad and all top surfaces with another whole pad and the other side with another new pad, but sometimes I need more pads then that. Also quite a few of those pads were used for testing and finding the right pad/polish combo which took me about 3 hours and 6 pads total since I did not want to mix polishes on the same pad.



Josh

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Okay guys, I'm going to take a quick minute to basically describe the process before I go into detail with pics and writing.



The owner called me to "rub out" his home painted 66 Lemans, I thought no way am I going to put my name on a car that was painted in a garage. (his friend has a paint booth set up in his garage where the car was painted, not the garage I did all the work in)



The owner is 70 years old and this sort of thing is just getting a little harder to do on his own.



The car is just over 17 feet long front to back not including the bumpers that are off the car at this point.



So I went to evaluate it and after seeing the condition of the paint before sanding it was to my surprise very clean with little orange peel except for just a few panels were it was worse so I decided to take on this project and gave him a conservative quote of $2500++ as a ballpark which was way on the low side as I was to find out as the total process from sanding to polish took about 49 hours so the bill would have been closer to $3800. Considering that quote was based on sanding the bad areas with 1500 and refining with 2000 and 2500 and on the good areas going with 2000 and then 2500 so the whole car would be without OP and finished with 2500 grit.



Needless to say the owner opted to sand it himself. It took him and a few others a total of about 24 hours to fully color wet sand it with the process I explained.



Meg's Unigrit sandpaper was used at my request for this wet sanding process.



After it was fully sanded and ready to be polished, I started with the trunk as the tester panel and spent about 3 hours with about 8 different combinations before I came up with what I felt to be the deepest cut with the cleanest finish the fastest. It was difficult to find this combo as the sanding marks needed at least two passes with a heavy compund to really get underneath them and remove them 100%. Then I would need to finish it down and remove the holograms.



I'll explain more in the pics about the testing.



The combo that won the trophy was surprisingly Menzerna Power Gloss on a Purple LC foamed wool pad at 1700 rpms which cut deep and removed a most of the sanding marks and then another heavy hitter to cut deep again to clean up any marks the PG missed and with a beautiful finish using Meg's M105 on a LC white pad at 1500 rpms with much jeweling.



Believe it or not I knocked out all the sanding marks and swirls with a two step heavy compound/polish combo knowing how well M105 finishes down required very little perfecting with Menz Final Polish II.



By the end of it all I would judge this paint to be about a 5 on a hardness scale of 1-10 with 10 being the hardest.



I am not finished with the car, once the owner gets all the trim, lights, bumpers, covertable top all put on and a few panels realigned I will go back to touch up any areas and then seal the heck out of it so there's still just a little more to do but for now the finish is nearly ready for show.





Okay, enough talking, onto the pics which I will also provide write ups with as I post so please be patient.



Josh

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Okay, so here's what I'm dealing with.



A 1966 Pontiac Lemans Convertable that the owner has spent nearly 3 years restoring and perfecting to show quality standards to give to his daughter as a birthday gift two years ago.....:faint::rofl



The entire car has been sanding between 2-3 times depending on how bad the OP was per panel and all is finished down with 2500 grit using Meg's Unigrit paper which took nearly 24 hours total just to sand.

The cover was still on the front of the car so I didn't take pics of the front sanding marks till I got around to polishing it them out.



Now for the intial test to find out which pad/polish combo I was going to start off with.



From left to right are 1 Gloss It Extreme Cut (left) 2 Menz SIP (middle) 3 Meg's M105 (right).



I am trying out a new line called Gloss It to see how I like it so please understand this is the first time I've used the polishes and there is a slight learning curve involved with any new product, but to be fair I did use it with the same pad and rpms as all the others were tested with.

 

[imported_JoshVette]

So onto the test.



First off Meg's M105 on a purple foamed wool pad at 1700rpms for one pass properly worked. I dob it all around then spritz it with a shot of water then quickly spread it at 600rpms and then up to 1700 and once worked in and broken down I turn it back down to 1100 then 700 and am finished. All were wiped down with IPA 90% which can leave a slight hazing behind itself. fyi.



All the polishes were done with this exact same process so that I could really see who has the better cut and finish for this custom black paint job. Also to note all the polishes are supposed to be able to take out 2500 grit sanding marks.



M105 sure it looks good under floresense as they all do for now....

Not bad for one pass but still has significant marks and swirls left behind. (to note holograms/buffer trails and swirls are two different things)

Menz SIP

Notice it did not cut as deep as the M105 or finish down as well either, now I did not expect it to cut as deep, but I did expect it to finish down better then M105 so I was a little surprised.

Now for the new kid on the block, Gloss It Extreme Cut, this is Gloss It's heaviest cut polish and after lengthy talks with the owner and other detailers that use the product I wanted to give it the true test.

Please understand this is my first time to use it so there's always a learning curve involved and I don't believe I got it's full potential out of it as others have and as I did with the other two polishes I was using.



Gloss It Extreme Cut

It looks good as far as cutting power but doesn't finish down near as well as M105.

 

[imported_JoshVette]

After that first step in the testing process I basically narrowed it down to Meg's M105 as the heavy cutter to remove the sanding marks with, it seemed to cut the deepest as well as had the best looking finish. But I still wanted to see what the Gloss It line had in it so more testing with Gloss It.



Now what I'm wanting to do is remove the holograms and see what's truely left underneath the heavy cutting compounds and for this I'm going to use a medium cut polish and see what is left over as far as sanding marks and swirls are concerned. Also to note this is PPG paint and clear coat but cut with what thinners and hardeners I don't know, so at this point I have no idea how hard or soft the clear is at all.



To do this I used the LC white pad and dobbed the polishes all around then spritz with water, then quickly spread them at 600 then up to 1500 to work it in and break it down then back down to 900 to jewel. All the medium polishes were used with this exact same process to see where they all stood when it comes to finishing down.



I basically excluded the SIP panel since I did not plan on using it on the rest of the car for the intial heavy cutting so it's down to the M105 and Gloss It line....



So to start off with I went back to the Gloss It line and used there own medium cut polish called Gloss It Evolution Cut.

I used the Evolution cut to refine the Extreme Cut and see what it would show me.



Gloss It Evolution Cut over the Extreme Cut panel.

I was impressed with the fact that most of the sanding marks looked like they were gone but the final finish still had much holograms in it.

To top the M105 I first tried Menz SIP then I also tried Gloss It Evolution Cut.



First SIP over M105

The finished looked nice but I'm still not happy with the cutting ability of both together to get 100% of the sanding marks removed as you can see so this is still not enough.

Gloss It Evolution Cut over M105

I thought the M105 and Gloss It Evolution Cut had a slightly better cut and nearly the same finish as the M105/SIP combo so I think the M105 and Gloss It Evo Cut is the winner between these two.

But even though I've narrowed it down again, as you can clearly see in the pics the swirls are still very very evident and so I am thinking at this point it's not a two step at all, but obviously needs two heavy compound passes to remove the sanding mark and swirls before I can go to a medium cut polish to refine, so back to square one.



Now I need to rethink my game plan. So for this I decide to throw Menz Power Gloss into the mix and see what happens.



Now the next test is between Menz PG/SIP and Meg's M105/Gloss It Evo Cut.



We'll see who wins this one.....

 

[Rickrack]

Can't wait to see the afters!

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Can't wait to see the afters!

Thanks, but it's going to be a long write up so grab some popcorn.:chuckle:

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Okay, now we're ALMOST getting somewhere.



Here's the next battle and I don't even know who to put my money on yet.



I'm throwing in a new factor into the equation so here goes.



My next test will be with Menz PG and SIP against Meg's M105 and Gloss It Evo Cut.



Here's the new test panel.

The unbias judge called 500W halogens.

The victom, custom painted 66 Lemans passenger rear panel

Let's see what happens....



First off M105 on a LC purple foamed wool pad. I put it on extra heavy cause I know it doesn't have a very long working life so I like to put it on real thick as you can see in this pic. fyi

Dobbing it around and then a spritz with water.

Working it in as before, spread quickly at 600rpms, then up to 1700 to break it down with slow passes working it in slowly then once broke down, turn speed down to 1100 then 700-900 to jewel a little.

Spreading it around.

Working it in and breaking it down, then jeweling.

Final results. I consider that entire step as One Pass.

Not bad, if you look closely you can still see some holograms near the bottle just over the lip of the fender.

Now with the Gloss It Evo. Cut over top M105 to finish down a bit more. Same process as before, white LC pad, dob it, spritz it, spread it at 600, then up to 1500 then jewel at 1100 and 900rpms.

Still some swirls left behind but very very nice finish. This will be hard to beat.

Onto the other combo of Menz PG and SIP with exact same technique and process as above.



Menz Power Gloss put on moderately thick, but not quite as thick as the M105

Working it in. The Menz PG seems to have a longer work in life so I could play with it a bit more which I find more effective when removing defects.

As expected the PG does not finish down as well as the M105 but does seem to have a bit more bite and I can work it in longer so it's a tough decision between the two heavy hitters.

Now for the SIP and white pad with the same process as the above test with the Evo Cut.

Wow, nice results between both combo's.

As you can see in both tests the finish down was great, but there was still some fine deeper scratches that neither combo was seeming to really get under to correct 100% so I will try one more combo.



Also it should be noted that some panels had worse and deeper sanding marks then others as there was 3 different people sanding the car and the car only had a few runs to remove so please know that I can see much better with my eyes then what the camera is showing you so even if one picture looks better then another and I tell you otherwise it's cause I visually inspect the whole section where the camera only shows you a small portion of that section.



Now for the final test which ended up being the winner I chose to do something different and combine my two heavy hitters and see what happens....



Now for Menz PG and Meg's M105.....

Results were better, deeper cut and great finish so I went with this combo. I didn't document it like the others but I used the same process.



Even though there's a couple deeper swirls in this pic the over all section had little to no sanding marks or swirls in it. Plus I knew I would have to finish the whole car down with Menz Final Polish II anyways.

I think we have a winner after 3 hours of testing.....



Menz PG with a LC purple foamed wool pad at 1700 and Megs' M105 with a LC white pad at 1500, jeweled and then finish down with Menz FPII with a LC black pad at 1100-1200 and jeweled at 700-900rpms.



Now to start on the car.....:waxing::grinno::2thumbs:

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Okay, now that I've got the testing done I can start to polish the whole car.



I would have to repolish all the tester panels as well, so the trunk got it again as well as the side panel.



It should also be noted that my final choice of pad/polish combo's worked great as the Menz left behind plenty of lubricant so that when I went back over it all with the Meg's M105 I could really work the M105 in for a long time due to the left over lubes from the Menz, I was very very happy with this.



With that in mind I would suggest when using M105 to slightly cut it with another polish that has a lot of lubes in it so you can get a waaaaay longer working life out of the M105.



Also some of the pics are staged pics of me as you'll see cause the pad with not be moving at all.



But in some of the pics you may notice the wool pads not perfectly flat on the panel as that is one of the tricks to using a thin wool pad like that is to every so slightly tilt it so that it is not perfectly flat, this seems to keep it from jumping and skipping alot.



With foam pads this is not the case and you want to keep them very flat as all the heat builds up in the outter areas of the pad so tilting it can cause you to burn the paint very easily.



Here's a pic of the rest of the panel completed with PG/wool and M105/white.

If you look at the pad I'm using in each picture you'll know what step I'm on in the process.

Please note that in delicate areas such as this a whole different process is required as you can not spin the rotary at high rpms in tight angled areas such as this or you will cut threw the paint.



For this area I will use M105 only with a white pad at like 1100rpms, then jewel it a whole lot at 900--700 rpms and it will typically take about 2-3 passes with this process to get perfect.

Here are the results from day one.

 

[Isabelle Tibbitts]

for a novice like me.. your post is absolutely top notch and SO interesting !

thanks you thank you !!

most impressive !



can we see the whole car once it's done please ?

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Day two starts bright and early at 8:30 picking up right where I left off....



I am using the exact same process for the whole car only spending a little extra time on the area that need it.



To note the side panels were in way better shape then the trunk and did not require as much as they seemed to clean up much better and faster then the top surfaces for some reason.



Passenger side door almost done with the first pass of PG with foamed wool pad at 1700rpms.

Front fender about to get transformed.

Spreading the PG

Working and about to break down the PG

Broke down and now jeweling the PG

You can see the black paint starting to show through.

Panel after PG with holograms that the M105 will easily take out.

Time to work in the next step with M105 on a LC white pad at around 1500 and jeweled in for a long time (thanks to the lubes in the PG) with a near perfect finish.

This is what a polish (M105) is supposed to look like after properly broke down and jeweled.

The results are near perfection.

I love this stuff, it is so versital. I can use it as a heavy cut compound with a wool pad or to finish down like a polish with a white pad requiring little clean up.:chuckle:

These areas are very delicate and so I must polish them with very slow speeds and really be careful so I do not burn any part of the paint. Using around 1200rpms to keep things safe and then jeweling with 900rpms.

Some areas such as around the antenna where the pads cannot reach it will require me to polish out the marks by hand, for this I chose Zaino ZPC which is a water based polish that has mild cut with a fast break down time so I knew I could use it by hand for a few passes and get the results I wanted.

I will basically just squirt a little on a pad of MF towel and rub it as fast as I can for a few seconds till it looks good and the owner is happy.

Results

 

[imported_JoshVette]

for a novice like me.. your post is absolutely top notch and SO interesting !

thanks you thank you !!

most impressive !



can we see the whole car once it's done please ?

Thanks, I'm writing the whole thing so people will have an idea of what it takes as well as learn if they ever need to polish there own car.



I'm nearly done with the write up part so it should move alot faster from here on out.



Patience young grass hopper.....

 

[imported_JoshVette]

Okay so moving right along....



Polishing the hood for the second time....

Now almost half the car has been polished and I know the exact combos it should be smooth saling from here on out.

Now that the majority of the polish for day 2 is complete I go back to the trunk and other areas to reinspect the paint after the lubes from the Menz PG and the lubes from Meg's M105 have evaporated I can see whatever was being hidden.



Sure enough wouldn't you know there is still some significant holograms in the trunk lid that I could not find the day before.

So I will now use the Menz Final Polish II with a LC black pad at 1200rpms then jewel it in at 900rpms to put the final touches on it.

before FPII

after FPII

I would again inspect this at the end of the 3rd day to see if any holograms are left over.



This is the end of day two.