Zymol Registration

lbls1 said:
Almost every time. To be fair, we have had some healthy discussions that have disclosed the excellent attributes of some of Zymol's waxes.



Zymol has its fans and critics (I was one of their critics years and many wax trials ago). The best way to see how well an EG produces is to sample and evaluate its finish by comparing it to its rivals. The results will tell the story better than any pro/con debate.



Comparison shopping does have its benefits; Aside from the Zymols, you would be very surprised in how well other products perform given similar prep methods. As good as the Zymols are, there are times that even *I* would be hard pressed in calling it the best. If its so good, then how come it is so expensive......meandering towards another debate perhaps.



I just like observing and admiring some of the Zymol's abilities without the need of declaring it the "best." Different is a more fitting term.....
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I guess that I will have to try it to see. I took a tiny flake of wax today and rubbed it between my fingers, it seems like a little really can cover a lot of area, so 8ozs should cover a fair amount of applications. :dance
 
howareb said:
I guess that I will have to try it to see. I took a tiny flake of wax today and rubbed it between my fingers, it seems like a little really can cover a lot of area, so 8ozs should cover a fair amount of applications. :dance
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I get from 20-25 applicatons per 8oz jar. i do however apply it thicker then i prob. need to.. i could easily see 30 coats if used spariingly
 
I would still put money on the table and say if you have an amazingly prepared surface and divide a large hood into 5 or 6 sections and use a combo of $30-$100+ waxes, there would NOT be much of a difference at all. I just think when some spend HUGE amounts on wax thinking they're buying some faaaar superior products, their eyes will see what they want it so see. Many can say I'm wrong but I have tested that theory with a handful of waxes and my hypothesis held true. Just sayin. In the end, buy whatever makes you happy.
 
if that is your experience then by all means hold it as your truth.. if its what works for you then sweet, you save tons of the expensive waxes.



One comment i noticed however is you said yhe eyes will see what they want... do you think this held true on your test?



just playing devils advocate
 
Hood shots don't tell the whole story either. With carnaubas, the real story is the reflective range and color rendition differences. Standing point blank over the surface may not in fact reveal "War and Peace" novels between lsps.



Quarter panel vs. quarter panel, and natural light shots, however, can show more than you'd think otherwise...........



compare...........if you dare lol!!!!!
 
Thank you gentlemen. I've really enjoyed this debate, I like looking at new MB's and BMW's too, and like fine expensive auto's, looking is all I'll ever be able to do.
 
never gone said:
I would still put money on the table and say if you have an amazingly prepared surface and divide a large hood into 5 or 6 sections and use a combo of $30-$100+ waxes, there would NOT be much of a difference at all.
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I have done such comparision very often on the hood of a car and just like what you said, you will not see much difference between the different wax or sealant used. BUT when you use these different wax or sealant on the whole car, I am pretty sure you will see some difference between them. I have a number of very good repeat customers who allow me to use whatever lsp I suggest, so I have seen the different effects on the same cars with different lsp used. So whenever I do a lsp comparision on the hood, I am testing more for the difference in durability rather trying to see difference in appearence.



Even if we do half the car with product A and the other half with product B, you might not see the real difference too, the reason being the lighting the car is exposed to. Unless you can have a controlled lighting that produces the same kind of lighting on both side of the car only than you can make a fair judgement on product A and product B. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion ;)
 
It seems like this thread is missing one very important variable...



The quality of the painted surface. A few of my higher end hot rod customers demand the highest quality paint jobs for their projects, and they will pay a premium for a known paint shop to get the job done right. These painters use premium products and spent countless hours in prep work and final finish work to produce a near perfect finish. One of my customers paid over $15k having a custom 53 Chevy PU painted, and shipped the car halfway across the US to have it done to his standards.



These cars will will look absolutely incredible no matter what type of lsp you put on it and providing the finish is maintained in this condition.



The same could be said of a finish that has factory flaws such as dirt and heavy orange peel. No matter what wax, glaze, or sealant place on a finish that does not have excellent optical clarity to begin with would be a waste



I would rather spend the big $$$ having the most minute imperfections removed and have an absolutely perfect finish before I would go out and try carnubu waxes that cost more than $100.



Just MHO.
 
Clean Dean said:
These cars will will look absolutely incredible no matter what type of lsp you put on it and providing the finish is maintained in this condition.



I would rather spend the big $$$ having the most minute imperfections removed and have an absolutely perfect finish before I would go out and try carnubu waxes that cost more than $100.



Just MHO.
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Spot on. :bigups



Once the finish is perfect, you will see a difference between LSP, but, even the lowliest wax will look great - as we well know. :)
 
Clean Dean said:
It seems like this thread is missing one very important variable...



The quality of the painted surface. A few of my higher end hot rod customers demand the highest quality paint jobs for their projects, and they will pay a premium for a known paint shop to get the job done right. These painters use premium products and spent countless hours in prep work and final finish work to produce a near perfect finish. One of my customers paid over $15k having a custom 53 Chevy PU painted, and shipped the car halfway across the US to have it done to his standards.



These cars will will look absolutely incredible no matter what type of lsp you put on it and providing the finish is maintained in this condition.



The same could be said of a finish that has factory flaws such as dirt and heavy orange peel. No matter what wax, glaze, or sealant place on a finish that does not have excellent optical clarity to begin with would be a waste



I would rather spend the big $$$ having the most minute imperfections removed and have an absolutely perfect finish before I would go out and try carnubu waxes that cost more than $100.



Just MHO.
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Agreed. That can be the fly in the ointment so to speak. A lot of people say that prep is the main ingredient. Then you have the lsp pundits (such as myself). But......the most important aspect of the finish is ....get ready.....The Paint. No amount of prep or lsp will fully recover poor quality or defective paint. If you have defective or poor paint, your best bet is to correct as much as possible and either live with it or (in the case of a classic.....never a DD) seek a quality repaint. The EG's will unfortunately exploit most of your inherent paint flaws (if the paint cannot be prepped properly) in addition to giving you its special glow.



So before the prep and the lsp debate, make sure that you have a base to work with. Otherwise we're just blowing hot air in the wind....:Paypal: :soscared:
 
You're right about the paint thing.



My black RAV4 has badly pitted paint on the hood, for some reason. I inherited the car, so I don't know its history.



No matter how much I polish it the hood never looks good, regardless of LSP. The sides look great and I can see obvious variability of LSP. The hood - very little. Always looks bad. :(
 
calgarydetail said:
if that is your experience then by all means hold it as your truth.. if its what works for you then sweet, you save tons of the expensive waxes.



One comment i noticed however is you said yhe eyes will see what they want... do you think this held true on your test?



just playing devils advocate
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Very fair question. The fact is with some of the more expensive waxes I used I wanted to see a noticeable difference but in all reality there just wasn't one. At least not one that made me say HOLY CRAP over another. I firmly believe that if the cars surface is prepped extreamley well, it's going to look amazing whether it's a $30 wax or $1000 wax with VERY little if any really differences. Also, either one is still going to wash off fairly quickly. This isn't knocking anyone so go crazy and buy whatever makes you or your clients happy. Just my 2 cents on an age old debate.
 
I can agree that preparation of the surface(s) is paramount. Absolutely. No argument.



However, in my experience (finish and color being equal) the visual differences between various waxes and sealants can range from impossible to distinguish to radical.



Also there are the durablity and mechanical factors to consider. Last of depth, gloss, feel, slip, sheeting, beading, basic protection, etc.



Finally sometimes a customer (or one of us) just plain wants to enjoy an extravegance. You know. Woo hoo! Look! Fancy toy/goop/etc! Fun fun!



I think the fun and enjoy factors are a real part of enjoying the hobby and or profession of detailing (at any level!).



I just don't see an issue using any product that makes the job what you and or your customer wants it to be. If it is $9 swell. If it is $5K swell.



Final wisdom...



There are no cheap hobbies.



:2thumbs:
 
Clean Dean said:
calgarydetail,



Please do not take this the wrong way, but what exactly is in their product that makes it so much more expensive than other waxes? Are the ingredients rare? Is the carnubu they use that much better than the carnubu used in P21, Meguiars, or Poorboys ? Does Zymol products enhance the shine, depth and hide imperfections significantly more than other premium carnubu waxes?



I have tried at least 50+ Carnubu waxes over the past 10 years from Souveran, P21, Meguiars, Mothers, Poorboys, AM, Chemical Guys, Collinite, Blitz etc... And I have come to the conclusion that a clear coated surface that is free of defects (minor scratches, swirls, contaminants) will only show just so much improvement in shine and depth with the use of a carnubu wax. If anything a pure glaze (non wax) product will improve the wet look of a finish more than a carnubu wax.



I am not looking to flame on a product line but I am yet to be convinced that any wax that I have tried is worth this type of dollar amount.



I could be wrong, and most things in life are subjective .I'll never be able to tell the difference between a $15 and a $250 bottle of red wine. :confused:
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the oils and carnauba in the zymol products are not rare, and can be replicated very cheap. It's all in the process of how it is made.



How zymol differs from poorboys etc, is they use a lot of cheaper silicones, and synthetics.



Is Zymol worth $1000s? Hell no, but is it worth about $200 or so, yes. If you know how those waxes are made, you would understand. I have a friend who makes waxes, and has taught me a couple things... the zymol waxes and their process can be replicated, or come close to it for pennies on the dollar.



It almost makes me want to buy some ingredients and experiment
 
the oils and carnauba in the zymol products are not rare, and can be replicated very cheap. It's all in the process of how it is made.



How zymol differs from poorboys etc, is they use a lot of cheaper silicones, and synthetics.



Is Zymol worth $1000s? Hell no, but is it worth about $200 or so, yes. If you know how those waxes are made, you would understand.
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You are right, a pretty good detailer I believe I am, a chemist I am not.



Please explain your what cheap silicones and synthetics Poorboys is guilty of using.



And what are Zymols superior silicones and synthetics.



Thanks.
 
Clean Dean said:
You are right, a pretty good detailer I believe I am, a chemist I am not.



Please explain your what cheap silicones and synthetics Poorboys is guilty of using.



And what are Zymols superior silicones and synthetics.



Thanks.
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Well, I'm no chemist either, but I do know a couple things about the manufacturing of these types of products.



Not saying poorboys, meguiars, etc etc use "cheap, as in lesser quality" ingredients, but cheaper as in, cost less per unit. It's pretty obvious that most mainstream products use synthetic additives to enhance gloss, carry the wax over the surface (solvents) etc.



Most natural oils cost more (read: a few dollars more per unit), which when multiplied in bulk adds up, and with large companies that sell to the wal-marts and autozones, and the online mega retailers, it's all about the bottom line.



I mean theres no doubt in my mind the zymols are better waxes than the lesser expensive products out there, but I also do not feel they are worth their 4 digit price tags, when I know for very certain they can be made (or waxes similar) for pennies on the dollar, and yield a much lower price tag.



Do some detective work and look at the pricing of their ingredients, and do the pricing math, youll be shocked.



Their claims of 70% Carnauba is pure bogus. unless they are comparing it to the content of just other waxes, but having a compound of 70% Carnauba as total weight, would be completely unworkable.



Theres only about 50g-60g of Carnauba in most carnauba waxes, which contain 220g of total product or so (8oz). Anything more than that would be completely unworkable.



I have a friend who has made paste waxes in the past, this conversation is really making me want to give him a call, and give it a go myself haha:laugh:
 
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