Z2pro vs. UPGP: Heavy Weight battle (comparison with results)

Gemini13 said:
So you think the lack of pictures to complement his write up and findings is OK?



Absolutely.....



Have you seen some of Todd's work and product threads here with attached pictures and video's Gemini.....?



This tongue and cheek write-up was funny and on the lighter side I suspect.....



If your aware of what he is capable of, you probaby won't sweat this take that much....



Feel free to post your own tests btw.......:xyxthumbs
 
RobD said:
I say, the best comparison would be UPPP/UPGP vs. Z-AIO/Z2Pro (or CS).



This way, the paint is equally prepped/primed before each LSP is applied.



While Zaino-AIO is a decent product, I personally think it hurts the durablity of Zaino. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time making the foundation of my process with a less durabile product.



As far as AIO's go, I prefer Werkstatt or Polyseal because they can be applied with a rotary.



I think the Z2pro vs. Ultima PGP is a fair comparision because of they, IMO, are the flag ship sealants produced by each company. If I where to use Z-CS (which I feel lasts no where as long, nor does it look as nice as Z2pro) then I would be in effect penalizing Zaino because Ultima doesn't make a better product.



Its only fair to test the best of each line against each other.



However, I do concede that using UPPP may have altereted the results. Of course having to apply another product completely removes the ease advantage of Ultima, but as stated, the durabilty may increase.



If anybody has a sample of UPPP they wouldn't mind sending, please shoot me a PM.



As far as the pictures and critism of the lack of pictures, I agree as well. Not because I feel that I need to prove my creditablity (In all fairness, I have been outspoken about products I use. I use Menzerna on 90 percent of my details, but am quick to warn others about problems I encounter. It is weird being considered a product basher of products I use. Also I am outspoken about Zaino as well). But I do feel that pictures would have added more to the thread, as wel as made it more intresting. Next time I will take more pictures.
 
Alfisti said:
Interesting.



So beading equals _ ?



Unusual that 'yellowing'. Seen it before with UPGP?



Did you prep the UPGP with UPPP? It will make a difference to the result...just like not using accelerator with Zaino.



If not, it's not apples with apples comparison.



Wouldn't it stand to reason that if product X exhibited a specific water beading characteristic after curing and it remains constant for an extended period of time that none of it has washed or evaporated from the paint surface? Would one assume that product X continues to protect at the same level as after initial curing? If a product shows a change in water beading characterisitics has protection been compromised?
 
Just to add to the *debate*---



We have Ultima on 4 of our 5 cars, and have seen fantastic results on all of them. I just washed my 3-Series today, and even though the paint is not as slick as it was when first applied 10 weeks ago, it is still very slick and is protecting from bugs and bird bombs very well. (Not showing any sign of durability lacking) Besides some marring that *I* have induced in the butter soft paint, it still looks very good with remakable depth. A couple weeks ago when washing our Lexus IS250, I decided to get a video of the sheeting at 9 weeks. The car was prepped with Ultima PPP and the topped with 3 coats of PGP. I have been more careful with this paint, and it still looks perfect with *no* marring or wash induced swirls. The paint on the Lexus is still very, very slick too and looks as good as the day applied, after a wash. (Beading is still nice and tight too) It should be noted that after the three coats of PGP on the Lexus, that it was washed with Chemical Guys Maxi Suds once a week. Anyway, here is the video---







And here are a few pictures---







 
Cool review, always nice to read your results & opinion Todd. Here's the main question, what do you LIKE to use? That's what it always comes down to, considering everyone has a different eye, application style, budget, etc.
 
Very creative and enjoyable read. Thank you for your time.!!!



I have done some comparison tests in my time and they were done to my parameters. I appreciate your opinion on what you did. I know that when I post the outcome of my results I give my honest opinion so I in turn can only assume that you are doing the same thing. Results vary, opinions differ, along with a whole host of other variables that will change each test bed.



I am soon to do my own test using these same products. The comments from this thread will give me criteria to employ for my test.
 
Doesn't UPGP come with Polycharger pre mixed? Isn't that one of the advantages of the product?



Again, somebody shoot me a PM if you are willing to send UPPP and we will see if the results are any different.
 
Interesting write-up, but totally contrary to my experience (at least in the salty Omaha winter). I've not done a side-by-side comparison, but the last winter I used Zaino on the car, it failed pretty quickly between the constant salty muck that was on the car and the touchless washes.



This winter I used Ultima, and it has held up much, much better to the salt and touchless washes. It's still beading like a champ on all of the horizontal surfaces and above the beltline. Below the beltline (where the salt and road grime do their worst), it's starting to show some wear. The last application of UPGP was around Thanksgiving, IIRC.



Another data point,

Tort
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Interesting write-up, but totally contrary to my experience (at least in the salty Omaha winter). I've not done a side-by-side comparison, but the last winter I used Zaino on the car, it failed pretty quickly between the constant salty muck that was on the car and the touchless washes.



This winter I used Ultima, and it has held up much, much better to the salt and touchless washes. It's still beading like a champ on all of the horizontal surfaces and above the beltline. Below the beltline (where the salt and road grime do their worst), it's starting to show some wear. The last application of UPGP was around Thanksgiving, IIRC.



Another data point,

Tort



In Florida, the only bad weather we deal with is rain and sunshine... We have already heard from people in this post that have gotten less than four weeks from Zaino and nothing from Ultima. The fact is that when we use any products in a dynamic enviroment, there are so many factors that affect the longevity of each product, the results will always vary.



One test does not dicate a rule, but rather documents an experience.
 
SilvaBimma said:
Cool review, always nice to read your results & opinion Todd. Here's the main question, what do you LIKE to use? That's what it always comes down to, considering everyone has a different eye, application style, budget, etc.



I like using Werkstatt. It just doesn't look as nice as Zaino (with out a carnauba topper). So for my clients that I use a sealant on, I use what I feel (from my experience) is the best sealant out there, and for now that is Zaino.



On clients with a 'nuba, I may use Werkstatt underneath it for added protection and gloss, but for a pure sealant, I prefer Zaino.
 
Terrific and very creative writeup Todd . You made me laught while I was reading it . Very hard to argue with your findings .





Cheers , Jean Paul



PS : Our 4th child was born on the 5 th of April . His name is Cedric .
 
jpochile said:
Terrific and very creative writeup Todd . You made me laught while I was reading it . Very hard to argue with your findings .





Cheers , Jean Paul



PS : Our 4th child was born on the 5 th of April . His name is Cedric .



Congrats Jean Paul!!!!!! Cedric is a great name. My wife and I are going to start planning our trip soon and are probably looking to August. :D



When is number five comming? ;)
 
wannafbody said:
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if product X exhibited a specific water beading characteristic after curing and it remains constant for an extended period of time that none of it has washed or evaporated from the paint surface? Would one assume that product X continues to protect at the same level as after initial curing?

Yes it would.



If a product shows a change in water beading characterisitics has protection been compromised?

That's a definite "maybe". ;) Not trying to be cute...I'll explain why I say "maybe".



*I* feel that most people (both novices and Autopians alike) are overly obsessed with beading. That's not a criticism; just an observation. I too love beading - it's almost like soft porn watching paint bead on a wet day! :chuckle:



It's a useful guide but not an accurate measure of durability when it comes to synthetics. With 100% natural waxes (carnauba, beeswax, montan), sure, beading IS an accurate measure of durability. Natural waxes, by their nature will bead when present. As they break down they bead less. When they are completely gone, no beading is present. So, if we're talking Souveran, P21S, etc, which contain NO polymers, then beading indicates quite accurately the presence or absence of the wax. This won't apply to hybrid waxes (which take in most waxes we call 'carnaubas' - such as #16, #26, Collinites, PS II, 5050, Pete's '53, Nattys, etc. It's not always easy to know as some don't disclose the synthetic content. Eg, the recent rumour about Zymol).



Polymers are different animals. Depending on the synthetic/polymer/resin, some will intrinsically bead, some bead poorly requiring additives to create beading. Example, NXT1 vs NXT2. As a result, a sealent may lose it's beading properties due to the 'beading additive' degrading, but still maintaining it's appearance/protective qualities. It's basically an unknown quantity, so to look at beading on sealants as a measure of when it's stopped protecting is not really possible.



We then have to turn to other qualities to determine its presence. Appearance, slickness, cleaning ability, etc.



At best, with sealants we can say that, if it is beading strongly then, it's present and protecting. If it beads poorly, the only thing we can say with certainty is that it has lost its beading properties. It may still be protecting as strongly as the day it was applied. Conversely, it may be totally dead. We just don't know.



To put it very simply, with sealants (and hybrid waxes), beading demonstrates its maximum, but not its minimum.



Thus, my comments in my earlier post, and frequently on other posts. Sorry to be a nuisance. :o
 
TH0001 said:
Doesn't UPGP come with Polycharger pre mixed? Isn't that one of the advantages of the product?

That's what I thought...and yet it benefits from UPPP. :nixweiss



BTW, please don't take my earlier comments as a criticism of your trial. It is much appreciated. I just thought it would be a more level playing field with the UPPP.
 
Todd :



You are a very cruel person . 4 children is way more than what I had visioned at the beginning . Actually I just wanted 2 dogs .... jajajjjajaja



Actually it is your time to work on munchkin N° 2 ....



un Abrazo , Jean Paul
 
TH0001 said:
Doesn't UPGP come with Polycharger pre mixed? Isn't that one of the advantages of the product?



Again, somebody shoot me a PM if you are willing to send UPPP and we will see if the results are any different.





PM sent. (more characters)
 
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