Why is this happening..

solekeeper said:
Do [Menzerna products] have the same amount of fillers as the Meguiars?
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The 106FF can do some incredible, and LOOONG-term concealing (first-hand observation under controlled conditions, no question about it). So much so that I'll only use that stuff after having done all the correction with something else.
 
Sweet job Rasky! Them some loooooooooong hours.



solekeeper,



Here's a very good and important read. If it might help, make a printout of this

and any other writeup that you feel is good. And keep it with you as practice.

Also, leave enough room to jot down your own observations.



http://www.autopia.org/forum/autoge...anted-know-about-meguiar-s-smat-products.html



Practicing is only half the battle. Actually, it's rather pointless without detailed

knowledge of the products themselves. So, read, read and read til yours eyes

bleed. Then, practice, practice, practice til your arms fall off. This is the way.
 
Thanks flash!



Well, I did mercedes hood today. Red, we wetsanded (2000)



I did 3M Perfect it

M105. (Wiped residue off in between both steps)

I then took it in the sun, saw correction was to about 95 percent. Brought it back in and decided to hit it again with the m105.



Did so, wiped again with mf.

Applied UF.



I now hosed off the entire car, and no scratches came back.



Could it be that the m105 needs to be used 2x?



Would m105 be enough to cut 2000 marks? I know it says 1200, but I don't want to waste a whole bottle of compound on one hood.. I was thikning about cutting out the 3M from my line up and going from m105 to m205 then UF.



Thanks guys!
 
all 3M stuff in my opinion is not what it used to be. i know a lot of body shops still use it, but for me its not worth the price. i have seem some people use a 1/4 bottle on one panel with multiple passes
 
solekeeper said:
Thanks flash!



Well, I did mercedes hood today. Red, we wetsanded (2000)



I did 3M Perfect it

M105. (Wiped residue off in between both steps)

I then took it in the sun, saw correction was to about 95 percent. Brought it back in and decided to hit it again with the m105.



Did so, wiped again with mf.

Applied UF.



I now hosed off the entire car, and no scratches came back.



Could it be that the m105 needs to be used 2x?



Would m105 be enough to cut 2000 marks? I know it says 1200, but I don't want to waste a whole bottle of compound on one hood.. I was thikning about cutting out the 3M from my line up and going from m105 to m205 then UF.



Thanks guys!
Click to expand...



M105 is definitely aggressive enough to cut through 2000 grit marks, but pad choice will be a huge factor as well as the paint itself. On most paints M105 and a wool cutting pad will cut right through 2000 grit sanding marks...though finishing with 3000 is still the better way to go. M105 is not as aggressive as the 3M extra cut compound, but it's pretty close to their regular compound yet finishes down a LOT better IMO.



Also, going from M105 to UF with a rotary is just too big of a jump and you must use a middle polish in between if you want to ensure a 100% hologram free finish. UF is pretty much and mild as it get as far as finishing polishes go and it does not have enough cut to remove the micro scratches left behind by M105.



If you look at the 3M Perfect-it line they have it set up as a system and it is reinforced several times in their "how-to" video the importance of using all 3 steps.






M205 is similar to the 3M Swirl Mark Remover in that it removes the micro scratches from the first step, but it has the ability to finish down a lot better.



The Meguiar's System allows you to do the same thing using just M105 and M205 but it will still requires 3 steps with the use of different pads. Again, some paints may benefit from a 4th step using UF.





I think switching to M105, M205, and UF is the way to go if you want perfection. :2thumbs:





Hope this helps,

Rasky
 
solekeeper said:
Could it be that the m105 needs to be used 2x?
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Sure, or even more times than that. Just depends what you're correcting. I've had to follow 3M PI-III ECRC with multiple passes of M105 before.



Would m105 be enough to cut 2000 marks? I know it says 1200, but I don't want to waste a whole bottle of compound on one hood.. I was thikning about cutting out the 3M from my line up and going from m105 to m205 then UF.
Click to expand...



The 3M Extra Cut has a lot more cut than M105 IME. When you need that kind of rocks-in-a-bottle compound, the M105 is probably not a viable alternative. But that's just IMO and I don't reach for the Extra Cut very often.



BUT...M105 can do *uniform* 2k scratches, even on very hard clear. It'll even do it via PC/Flex 3401 if you spend some time. IF you're using a good paper, that doesn't leave random/deep "tracers" then M105 might be just fine.



And..what RaskyR1 said :xyxthumbs
 
RaskyR1 said:
M105 is definitely aggressive enough to cut through 2000 grit marks, but pad choice will be a huge factor as well as the paint itself. On most paints M105 and a wool cutting pad will cut right through 2000 grit sanding marks...though finishing with 3000 is still the better way to go. M105 is not as aggressive as the 3M extra cut compound, but it's pretty close to their regular compound yet finishes down a LOT better IMO.



Also, going from M105 to UF with a rotary is just too big of a jump and you must use a middle polish in between if you want to ensure a 100% hologram free finish. UF is pretty much and mild as it get as far as finishing polishes go and it does not have enough cut to remove the micro scratches left behind by M105.



If you look at the 3M Perfect-it line they have it set up as a system and it is reinforced several times in their "how-to" video the importance of using all 3 steps.






M205 is similar to the 3M Swirl Mark Remover in that it removes the micro scratches from the first step, but it has the ability to finish down a lot better.



The Meguiar's System allows you to do the same thing using just M105 and M205 but it will still requires 3 steps with the use of different pads. Again, some paints may benefit from a 4th step using UF.





I think switching to M105, M205, and UF is the way to go if you want perfection. :2thumbs:





Hope this helps,

Rasky
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Would love to use 3000, but I don't think this does enough for a newly refinished hood. I like 2k, not to harsh, not too soft. It can rid of dust, that's exactly what I need it for. While reducing OP (Just a bit)





I agree jumping from M105 to UF is too much of a jump, never even considered this. lol



I do also agree that the m105 finishes down way better than the 3MP3k.



The whole idea behind this, was that I was trying to rid of the 3m, and stick the M105. I just needed to figure out a 2nd step. I love the way m105 finishes down, rather then the 3m. 3M is very harsh.. and using m105 as a second step def makes me and m105 work extra hard.



So, with all this being said. I think I taking a new approach to things.



M105, M205 AND UF. For a swirl free finish.



Now, can someone recommend me a wool pad to use with the M105?

And a foam for M205? I already have the baby blue pad for UF.



Thanks so much rasky, and Accumulator!
 
solekeeper said:
Now, can someone recommend me..a foam for M205?
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M205 is one of those products that can do different work depending on the pad. I don't go more aggressive than a Griot's orange/LC tangerine, and that might be too aggressive for soft paint.



But if you're gonna finish with the Ultrafine/blue combo, I'd probably pick something medium-aggressive for use with the M205 rather than a true finishing pad. Sometimes M105 can leave issues that you *need* a bit of cut to resolve.
 
Since this is a body shop environment where time is money I'd suggest the following.



M105 via rotary and Meguiars Solo Wool Pad

M205 via rotary and Meguiars W8207 foam pad (maybe orange LC).

UF via rotary and blue 3M foam pad





IMO an ideal process on fresh paint where time is of no constraint, I would do the following and tweak as needed depending on how the paint reacts.



Wet sanding

  • 1500 grit depending on how rough the paint is (initial leveling)
  • 2000 grit (refining)
  • 3000 grit (refining)



Polishing

  • M105 via rotary and Megs Solo wool or W5000 wool
  • M105 via rotary and orange LC pad
  • M205 via PCXP/G110v2 and black LC (ensures 100% hologram free finish)
  • UF or PO85RD via rotary and blue/red LC pad to jewel the paint to a high gloss.
 
RaskyR1 said:
[*]M105 via rotary and Megs Solo wool or W5000 wool

[*]M105 via rotary and orange LC pad

[*]M205 via PCXP/G110v2 and black LC (ensures 100% hologram free finish)

[*]UF or PO85RD via rotary and blue/red LC pad to jewel the paint to a high gloss.

[/LIST]
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Noting that I have neither the experience or the skill of many pros here...I find the jump from M105/LC orange to M205/LC black via PC to be too much. I need more cut from the initial M205 step.
 
Accumulator said:
Noting that I have neither the experience or the skill of many pros here...I find the jump from M105/LC orange to M205/LC black via PC to be too much. I need more cut from the initial M205 step.
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Yeah on some paints I would agree. If the paint is fresh and still softer the black should be sufficient. It would also depend on how well the M105/orange finished down too.



I was real hesitant posting any combo's as you really don't know until you start polishing. ;)
 
In refinishing, as in detailing, not all jobs require extra effort...



Three steps:



1. M105 via rotary w/wool (several section passes 1500 rpm max)

2. M205 via PC w/LC orange or white foam

3. UF via PC w/LC black



Two steps:



1. M105 via rotary w/wool (several section passes 1500 rpm max)

2. M205 via PC w/LC orange or white foam



I know, Meguiars reccomends a 1500 - 2000 rpm range for M105. But 1200 - 1500 rpm

seems to be more efficient. For me.
 
Flash, could you re-edit your 2 and 3 steps to better suit a rotary?



I only use this right now, and am quite comfortable.



Ok guys, so for the m105= SOLO WOOL PAD

M205=Orange?



I saw that flash gave me white, whats the cutting difference between the white and orange? Thanks!
 
I agree with the others, you definitely need a step between #105 and Ultrafina. Even on harder paints where #105 looks nearly LSP ready, I still use #205 and then (when possible) let the car sit in the sun for 30-40 minutes. Usually that is my lunch break time anyway. The heat from the sun will flash off any oils and give you a true picture of the finish pretty quickly-really noticeable when using Meguiars #83 for example. After I get back, I inspect the finish, touch up any areas necessary and then proceed with Ultrafina.
 
Solo....



I really think you should reconsider following up the 2000 grit with some 3000 grit. This would allow you to get less aggressive with your first polishing step leaving the finish with only very light holograms, and it would really save on the amount of buffing time. If you follow up the 2000 grit with the DA using something like the 3M Trizact disks, it really doesn't take long at all.





Here is a '64 Impala I'm working on right now that had an amateur garage paint job.



IMG_2649.jpg






I've wet sanded this side of the hood using 2000 grit by hand and taped off a section to show how much of a difference it will leave the paint when you finish with 3000 grit or higher.



2000 grit

IMG_2659.jpg




Notice how flat it looks with zero gloss...

IMG_2660.jpg




No here is that same section after a quick pass with some 3000 grit. You can now see a slight gloss again and the florescent light now shows in the reflection.

IMG_2662.jpg




With the tape removed you can see a pretty clear line....and this is on a white panel!



IMG_2663.jpg




I was able to fully remove the sanding marks with one quick pass using M105 and a PFW LC pad. I could easily have used a orange LC foam but the initial leveling is always best done with wool. A PFW pad will finish down MUCH better than a maroon Solo pad.

IMG_2668.jpg




IMG_2670.jpg








Trust me....they are worth it! :2thumbs:



IMG_2664.jpg




IMG_2665.jpg






Rasky
 
Hey rasky can that PFW LC pad still work well with the 2000 grit?



I will def. try and switch to the 3k, but just in case. Is that wool good enough for the 2000 w/m105?
 
solekeeper said:
Hey rasky can that PFW LC pad still work well with the 2000 grit?



I will def. try and switch to the 3k, but just in case. Is that wool good enough for the 2000 w/m105?
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I wasn't saying you should switch....do the initial sanding with 2000 grit, but then follow it back up with 3000 grit.



The PFW should still remove the 2000 grit scratches but you may have trouble with any tracers that may be in the paint. I'll have to try a spot on the Impala and see how it works. The paint itself will still play a big role in how well they work though. ;)
 
RaskyR1 said:
I think switching to M105, M205, and UF is the way to go if you want perfection. :2thumbs:





Hope this helps,

Rasky
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Absolutely. Zero issues with holograms using those three products. ZERO.
 
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