When would you (Uncle Sam points at you) use a pre-wax cleaner?

B

BuffMe

New member
What I'm talking about here is anything marketed as something to clean the paint and prep it before applying a wax or sealant. This could be something marketed as a pre-wax cleaner, or something not necessarily marketed as such but has the same intentions.



Personally, I don't think it has any use in applications other than those which don't involve polishing and thus obviously require some sort of paint prep/cleaning mechanism before the LSP.... but I could be wrong. I'm just curious to know when people would use something like this and what exactly the would/do use.
 
In one sense, all paint cleaning products do the same thing; remove embedded contaminants and surface defects. The only difference between products labeled as “pre-wax cleaners� and those labeled as “heavy cut compound cleaners� is the level of aggressiveness, not the basic function.



So a “pre-wax cleaner� is just another weapon in your finish care arsenal. You’d use it when the finish you’re working on has only very light issues to deal with.



How light? That depends on the finish and the particular cleaner. Every cleaner works a little differently. Every finish’s workability is a little different.





PC.
 
*I* will probably use paint cleaners more on the Jag and the RX-7 than on anything else. The (mostly) original paint can't take any more abrasive polishing and I won't subject 'em to AutoInt's "A" either, so a paint cleaner is the ticket for those particular (fragile, original) cars.
 
Understandable on fragile paint surfaces.



I guess my question is more based toward hearing about people using it after several steps of polishing. It just seems to me like some people throw in the "paint cleanse" step (in particular reference to post-intense polishing) just to augment the sound/look, or "elite" nature, of their routine rather than *truly* believing it adds something to the final product.



I dunno... JMO... that's why I'm looking for input from you all.
 
BuffMe said:
Understandable on fragile paint surfaces.



I guess my question is more based toward hearing about people using it after several steps of polishing. It just seems to me like some people throw in the "paint cleanse" step (in particular reference to post-intense polishing) just to augment the sound/look, or "elite" nature, of their routine rather than *truly* believing it adds something to the final product.



I dunno... JMO... that's why I'm looking for input from you all.
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Buff your car, and use any of the more popular aios. YOU WILL SEE A DIFFERENCE.

For a while now, I always finish with a paint cleaner before protecting the paint. I want to have the cars I do look as good as possible.

Equally as important: to remove all the oils residue from the polish.
 
AIO's are not what I'm talking about though, and there definitely is a difference. An AIO is meant to clean and seal all in one (at least all the ones I've seen). I'm talking about things meant just as paint cleaners, nothing more or less.



My point, which still stands in my mind, is that I'm 99% sure not even the best of detailers' eyes could see a difference between a car that had paint cleanser used on it and one that didn't if it was properly prepped.
 
Wether it leaves a protection or not they all clean up the paint.



Swisswaxes "liquid fluid" has no protection, but my goodness - what a finish it leaves. I couldn't believe the difference.
 
Why would there be a difference if it's just cleaning the paint? You've already polished to a mirror shine. If there is just oils left, those are going to be, at the very least, engulfed within whatever LSP you apply, so they'll be pretty much mixed in well enough to not be noticeable as well.
 
BuffMe said:
Why would there be a difference if it's just cleaning the paint? You've already polished to a mirror shine. If there is just oils left, those are going to be, at the very least, engulfed within whatever LSP you apply, so they'll be pretty much mixed in well enough to not be noticeable as well.
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I am sorry that I tried helping you. I though you really wanted t learn. I now see that you just needed someone to agree with you.



HERE IT IS:



You are right. Just polish and add your lsp. No pre wax cleaned needed.
 
tdekany said:
I am sorry that I tried helping you. I though you really wanted t learn. I now see that you just needed someone to agree with you.



HERE IT IS:



You are right. Just polish and add your lsp. No pre wax cleaned needed.
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Not really sure of the basis behind any of that... but alright.



It's called a healthy discussion. If you feel it's easier to resort to personal attacks rather than educatedly arguing the topic at hand, so be it. I'd just prefer you keep that sort of childish tantrum stuff out of my thread, if possible.



You provided a personal opinion. I disagreed with it. Now, either you are able to continue to argue your opinion to the point of me understanding, or you quit. If you quit, please move on and let this thread remain for others who wish to provide mature arguments and discussion.
 
Personally, I don't think it has any use in applications..... but I could be wrong.
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I told you what I think as a professional detailer.



The difference is that I have enough experience to KNOW to use. You are obviously not speaking from experience.



You can call me childish, (btw, where did I attack you personally?) but the way I responded to your doubting was the best way in my mind to respond. If you think that strongly about this issue, why ask?



If you are not willing to learn from more experienced detailers I can only assume that you just want people to agree with you. That is what I did. And you call me childish.



I am out of your thread. Thanks for another beneficial learning experience. :p :p :p
 
BuffMe said:
Why would there be a difference if it's just cleaning the paint? You've already polished to a mirror shine. If there is just oils left, those are going to be, at the very least, engulfed within whatever LSP you apply, so they'll be pretty much mixed in well enough to not be noticeable as well.
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I don't think you can *necessarily* make the assumption that any oils will just get mixed in with the LSP :think: and even if they do, they might contribute something a person doesn't want.



..An AIO is meant to clean and seal all in one (at least all the ones I've seen)...
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When I use AIO before KSG, I use it *strictly* as a cleaner, to clean any residual polishing oils/etc. off the paint. I know AIO is *supposedly* gonna "seal" too, but IME/IMO it doesn't leave behind anything significant, at least not enough to matter if you're putting KSG on too. I don't use my other paint cleaners for fear they'll leave behind something that might interfere with the KSG's bonding.



Other thoughts:



When using polishes that leave something behind (e.g 1Z Metallic Polish with Wax), the wax/etc. that's deposited can interfere with the bonding of subsequently applied LSPs (e.g., UPP). I had to clean off the stuff the 1Z left behind before I could get my UPP to properly bond to it. No, that wouldn't have been an issue had I applied wax for my LSP instead, but I'm mentioning it as an example.



And/or, you might have some reason for not *wanting* the polish's oils left behind. Perhaps you used Meg's #9/#82 as your final polish and don't want those "trade secret oils" altering the appearance you'd get with a Zymol Estate Glaze.



And/or, perhaps you're a fanatic about marring being truly removed as opposed to being hidden, and thus want to clean off any oils/etc. that could be doing some concealing.



While I hardly ever use my paint cleaners (other than AIO if I'm using KSG) after polishing, I *do* understand why some people might choose to use them. If somebody believes they derive a benefit from doing an extra step I'm not gonna argue with 'em. Similarly, if somebody thinks a paint cleaner would be a wast of time/effort in their situation, OK, I'll take their word for it.
 
Waxes enjoy oils. I determine if it is time for a polishing phase. Then on my fairly new car 05 RX8, bring out the Men. PO85RD and a Finishing pad if I have no scrathes. This removes all old product and leaves behind a finish ready for my LSP. A glaze or pure polish (Meg. 3, 5, 7, 9, 81) before your wax will not affect the bonding of the wax.
 
MDRX8- Just for the sake of discussion, if you used a Meg's polish that was rich in Trade Secret Oils, would you precede your Zymol Vintage with something like HD Cleanse to remove those oils or do you find the TSOs are OK before the Vintage?



I know some Vintage users are pretty adamant about not using other-manufacturer products before waxing.
 
I have no problem with Meg's pure polishes before Vintage. In fact my last application of Vintage I used Men PO85RD, Danese Wet Glaze, then Vintage... But I see your point. Vintage in itself contains oils in it. Most high quality waxes contain oils in them. One time I took some Vintage put it in a container and added a little coconut oil mixed it up and wax my car. Looks were great. Wonder what would happen if you took some good smellin suntan oil and added it to wax. (just kiddin)



Accumulator said:
MDRX8- Just for the sake of discussion, if you used a Meg's polish that was rich in Trade Secret Oils, would you precede your Zymol Vintage with something like HD Cleanse to remove those oils or do you find the TSOs are OK before the Vintage?



I know some Vintage users are pretty adamant about not using other-manufacturer products before waxing.
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I like using it after the cutting and finishing polish process. It helps to clean up any lingering haze from the polish process. You can use it b4 the polishing if you want to take off the lsp w/o any paint correcting.
 
OK, so the bottom line here is that without using a paint cleanser after polishing, it might leave oils behind that could possibly muck up the appearance of some LSP that doesn't blend/adhere too well with it, correct?
 
I use paint cleansers (chemical non-abrasive) as a pre-polish step. I use them on the rocker panels, bottom 1/3 of door panels, areas behind the wheel wells and the front/back bumpers. Also in places that I know I won't be able to reach with the abrasive polishes.



I've never used them on an entire car, just those extra dirty areas or if I'm going to redo just a panel and want to remove all the LSP. My claybars last longer because their just removing the embedded stuff and I'm not using them as a surface cleaner. I use the DG paint cleanser and just recently tried the Danase Pure Polish.



I've been wondering about the need for a post-polishing paint cleansing lately myself. The Swisswax Cleaner Fluid is what got me thinking about it, but that looks more like a liquid solvent than a creamy polish.



Sticking with the IPA wipedown for now.
 
MDRX8- OK, thanks for explaining about the Meg's Pure Polishes and Vintage. I find the varying approaches to using Zymols EGs interesting.



DJBAILEY said:
I use paint cleansers (chemical non-abrasive) .. in places that I know I won't be able to reach with the abrasive polishes..
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You lost me there...how can you use a nonabrasive product in a place you can't reach with an abrasive one :confused:



That caught my eye as I spend forever reaching up inside doorjambs/etc. to abrasively polish places that most people never see..smoothing the paint makes it less likely to retain dirt and moisture. (E.g., reaching in front of the front door hinges to polish the rear, inner panel surfaces of the front fenders.) Seems that if I can reach in there with one product I could reach in ther with another one..but I could be missing something :think:



And yeah, some of the various SwissWax Cleaner Fluids look intriguing! IIRC they have some that sound like they do minor correction (or am I thinking of something else?).
 
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