When would you (Uncle Sam points at you) use a pre-wax cleaner?

What???? If you use a pre-paint cleaner you wipe it off along with the "stuff" it has removed. What I have done before since my car is so clean, put a coat of Meg. #7 let it dry. Don't wipe it off. Follow with my Vintage and buff both off at the same time.
 
MDRX8 said:
What I have done before since my car is so clean, put a coat of Meg. #7 let it dry. Don't wipe it off. Follow with my Vintage and buff both off at the same time.
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Hmm...never thought to try that :think:
 
DJBAILEY said:
I use paint cleansers (chemical non-abrasive) as a pre-polish step. I use them on the rocker panels, bottom 1/3 of door panels, areas behind the wheel wells and the front/back bumpers. Also in places that I know I won't be able to reach with the abrasive polishes.



I've never used them on an entire car, just those extra dirty areas or if I'm going to redo just a panel and want to remove all the LSP. My claybars last longer because their just removing the embedded stuff and I'm not using them as a surface cleaner. I use the DG paint cleanser and just recently tried the Danase Pure Polish.



I've been wondering about the need for a post-polishing paint cleansing lately myself. The Swisswax Cleaner Fluid is what got me thinking about it, but that looks more like a liquid solvent than a creamy polish.



Sticking with the IPA wipedown for now.
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Using the cleaners on the extra dirty places, before polishing, makes sense to me.



I'm a newbie and still trying to figure out how the various steps best fit together, but it always sounded odd to me to use a cleaner after rather than before polishing. I understand now the point about removing oils and such before applying an LSP, but stepping back, it seems to me that you'd want the surface as clean as possible before polishing and potentially introducing marring from whatever contaminates may be present on the paint.



In my one & only PC polishing venture, I used a claybar first. For my (second) spring polish, I have wondered about adding another cleaning step, as I anticipate my car will need more help after the perils of winter. But then I read descriptions, like for some of the 1Z polishes, which say they "remove[] road grime, tree sap, bird droppings, stains, and light oxidation" and I get confused about what my polish is going to do for me. I hadn't been thinking of polish as a cleaner, but rather a shiner, if that makes any sense.



I haven't captured the quote formally, but on the first page of the thread, PC stated



"In one sense, all paint cleaning products do the same thing; remove embedded contaminants and surface defects. The only difference between products labeled as “pre-wax cleaners� and those labeled as “heavy cut compound cleaners� is the level of aggressiveness, not the basic function."



Maybe that's my answer. Actually, I still don't know what to say to Uncle Sam. But thanks for having a place where I can ruminate about this.
 
That is the clay bar's only function, to remove surface contaminants, so that you have a fresh surface. This will not only remove solid particles but also the LSP to some extent, depending on the level of aggressiveness of the clay.



So, at the very most, you're left with a small amount of LSP, if you have properly clay bar'ed. So, a paint cleaner here wouldn't really benefit you much as your next step is going to be much more aggressive. Personally, I would equate this to sanding, where the paint cleaner is fine sandpaper and the polish is harsh sandpaper. Assuming you started with the fine sandpaper first, as soon as you started using the tough paper your fine sandpaper results would be completely encompassed and essentially worthless.



This similarity may or may not be exactly appropriate, but the point is that when you're just going to follow up with something that is going to be much more abrasive to the finish (such as a polish) there is little to no reason for paint cleaner. The only situation I can see where it would actually be beneficial enough to use would be in the cases that Accumulator described in which you aren't going to use a polish and just want a clean surface for the LSP, or to possibly mitigate some problems that might occur if somehow the oils leftover from the polish don't mingle well with your LSP of choice.



Just my take on things ATM...
 
Thanks for that explanation. The sandpaper analogy is very helpful. I'll just keep on good terms with my clay bar and plan to use that and some polish come spring.
 
You lost me there...how can you use a nonabrasive product in a place you can't reach with an abrasive one :confused:



Well, I can reach them by hand, not with a machine. If its going to be a pain to try to breakdown an abrasive polish by hand because its a hard to reach area then I use the paint cleanser to at least get that surface deep down sqeaky clean. No real correction except maybe the very finest marring.



That caught my eye as I spend forever reaching up inside doorjambs/etc. to abrasively polish places that most people never see..smoothing the paint makes it less likely to retain dirt and moisture. (E.g., reaching in front of the front door hinges to polish the rear, inner panel surfaces of the front fenders.) Seems that if I can reach in there with one product I could reach in ther with another one..but I could be missing something :think:



And yeah, some of the various SwissWax Cleaner Fluids look intriguing! IIRC they have some that sound like they do minor correction (or am I thinking of something else?).[/quote]



The price is too much for me though. I would only experiment with my own cars. It says you only can get 3-4 cars out of one of those bottles. But I'd like to see what it does when used post polishing.
 
DJBAILEY- OK, now I understand. Yeah, breaking down the polish in those out-of-the-way areas is a real PIA even with stuff that's by-hand friendly. Once I get such areas the way I wan't 'em I just use polishes that don't take much breaking down (e.g., 1Z WPS), which are sorta like the paint cleaners you're using.
 
I had a friend who moved from up north to where I live in the south. Each year he would clean his car with KEROSENE. Afterwards he would wash it off then apply Meg. #26. And I have to say his car looked awesome!
 
Yeah, I guess the paint cleansers are probably overkill when used as a pre-polishing step. I just hate spending money on claybars. My wife thinks I'm crazy spending $15-20 on a little chunk of PlayDoh. I've had many rocker panels and bumpers that really messed up the claybar to the point that I was afraid to use it again. Now after cleaning up those dirt prone areas with a cleanser first and then clay barring has made a noticeable improvement in the useful life of the claybars. A couple of nickel sized blobs of cleanser is way more cost effective than using up the claybars too fast.



So kerosene as a post-polishing step! I'm not brave enough.
 
I acually tried it about 8 years ago. And I was suprised at the outcome. I might just try it again someday. Maybe a test spot on my Tahoe.



DJBAILEY said:
So kerosene as a post-polishing step! I'm not brave enough Yeah, I guess the paint cleansers are probably overkill when used as a pre-polishing step. I just hate spending money on claybars. My wife thinks I'm crazy spending $15-20 on a little chunk of PlayDoh. I've had many rocker panels and bumpers that really messed up the claybar to the point that I was afraid to use it again. Now after cleaning up those dirt prone areas with a cleanser first and then clay barring has made a noticeable improvement in the useful life of the claybars. A couple of nickel sized blobs of cleanser is way more cost effective than using up the claybars too fast.



So kerosene as a post-polishing step! I'm not brave enough.
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MDRX8 said:
I had a friend who moved from up north to where I live in the south. Each year he would clean his car with KEROSENE. Afterwards he would wash it off then apply Meg. #26. And I have to say his car looked awesome!
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Sounds like an Alaskan (or northern) approach. Did he use duct tape instead of a clay bar, I wonder, that would be a true Alaskan?



I have to say the Kerosene is tempting. It might come in handy when I try to get the tar or whatever road material off my car come spring.
 
Pretty funny. Let me add a line:



Happy spouse = Priceless



*Should cut both ways to support each other's purchases.
 
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