When Swirls Return....

D

Danspeed1

New member
Ill try and keep this short and sweet,... I think I know the answer, but I am hoping you guys will come up with something better.



A month and a half ago I FULLY and I mean fully detailed my 96 Impala for a car show I was going to. It went a little something like this.



Zaino Z7 Car Wash

Zaino Clay Bar

Megs 83 on cut pad

Megs 83 on polish pad

ZPC on polish pad

Z5, Z5, Z5,

Z2

Z6

Z8



All the interior, engine and so on,



Now a month and a half later, the car looks as bad as it did pre detail (although it is still shiny!) Swirls everywhere from constant washing, brake dust, micro marring,... you name it,



I have a local show to go to on friday, and I don't 5 days to spend detailing (AGAIN).



What can I do to make those swirls go away and if I do these thing (MORE IMPORTANTLY) will i have to put another 3 coats of Z5 on and another few of Z2? I hate to do all this over again,



DG



I WANT MY FINISH BACK!! :grrr



GMNationals012.jpg
 
If you can live with the swirls on a day to day basis but just want your car to look perfect for the show, how about using a glaze to do some filling?
 
The one thing that I noticed was missing from your shots in your previous thread was direct sun shots. They were all reflection shots which don't tell much about swirls. Are you sure that they were gone after your last polishing session?
 
Danspeed1- Sounds to me like it's a wash-related issue. Once you get it corrrected again, work on the wash technique so it doesn't get marred up again.



[Insert usual foamgun recommendation here...]



If any of the marring is inches-long, you oughta change how you move the wash media across the paint. Interupted, "jiggling" motions won't leave long scratches and very tiny scratches don't show as much.



IMO washing regularly without marring is perhaps the hardest part of detailing...polishing just takes time and a little experience, but to *not have to polish* for long periods of time is a challenge. But a month and a half is way too soon...every year or so would be OK.



I don't see what you can do before the show except to polish it again...but most cars at most shows have a lot of marring and judges seldom seem to deduct for it, so I bet it won't bother anybody but you. And I sure wouldn't QD/dust a black car because IMO it's gonna mar it up (many people do that at shows and you can watch them mess up their paint in real-time right before your eyes) . Unless you want to start over, I'd just apply more Z5 for now and deal with it when you have more time.
 
I don't want to get any of the Zainophiles upset at me but looking at your process you are spending a whole lot of time putting on the typical multiple "layers" of Zaino. Perhaps if you used a different system you could cut your detailing time by 40% or so and spending 2/3 of your time polishing and 1/3 sealing (by not having to use so many "layers" -- and I use that terms loosely...).



As for the real problem here it really does come down to the wash technique, and if you're using a QD frequently you may also have to cut that down. I have a black car and let me tell you it is a ***** to keep the finish flawless (mine isn't). I just polish a couple of panels every month or two and try to keep up on the car and avoid inducing scratches. Better to put effort into polishing the car more regularly, and doing careful washes, than to put on several "layers" of Zaino every few months, IMO. Best of luck at the show!
 
+100000 for Accumulator's wash method.



Only thing I have to add is how much it helps to have an LSP that easily let's go of anything sticking to it when washed. High percentage carnauba LSP's really seem to let go of contaminants easily. The easier the stuff lets go of your paint, the less chance there is of marring. I know I'm being repetitive (I've posted this same thing about Zaino a bunch of times now), but I just gotta say it again: I love Zaino, and I used it for years... however, it just does not like to let go of contaminants very easily. Using a boar's hair brush during a wash on a Zaino LSP'd car did not remove *any* dirt from the vehicle at all. I had to move up to a tradtiional wash mitt to get the stuff off. If you've ever used a BHB to wash with, you'll know what I mean by *gentle*. The only thing more gentle than a high-grade bhb is nothing; a completely touchless wash. Use a bhb a few times, and you'll feel like you're using sandpaper to wash your car the next time you use any traditional wash mitt. I'd be willing to place money on your swirls coming back due to the necessary "roughness" of your washing technique to get the stuff off your Zaino LSP'd finish.



If I'm doing a traditional wash nowdays (I've been dabbling in ONR and ONE lately), I go completely touchless, or, if my vehicle is really dirty, nothing more aggressive than a BHB. Using a high percentage carnauba LSP let's me do this, and get a completely clean car in the process.



I usually always get a few "what are you talking about, man? Zaino cleans easily during the wash" replies when I post this, but these are always from people that use traditional wash methods using a traditional mitt. Sure, Zaino comes completely clean when using a mitt, but that's the part that gives me so much grief; mitts are haaaaaaard on your paint! Try this.... get yourself a bhb. Let your Zaino'd car get dirty. Now wash it using only the bhb as your wash media. Did the car come clean? didn't think so. Now wash the car again using a mitt. Did your car come clean? I'd bet it came completely clean. Did you mar your car in the process? probably.



Zaino is a great LSP: it shines like crazy, has unreal durability, ease of application, etc. But when it comes to releasing surface contaminants during washing, it sucks harder than any LSP I've used. If you really do want to stay with Zaino as your LSP, I would think hard about either trying Accumulator's wash method, or possibly switching to ONR.



The most effective combination for paint correction (in other words, controlled scratching/marring of your paint) is a wool pad with an abrassive compound on it. Sounds very much like a washing mitt, the dirt on your paint, and a traditional car wash to me...
 
As others have said, you will need to really focus on your wash technique were most of your marring probably came from. If you are looking for a quick swirl removal, you can try ZPC followed by Z5pro. That will look nice.



I really haven't noticed a lack of releasing contaminants with Zaino, so I can't really comment on that. It seems to shed contaminants for me. :nixweiss



Greg
 
felthove said:
I don't want to get any of the Zainophiles upset at me but looking at your process you are spending a whole lot of time putting on the typical multiple "layers" of Zaino. Perhaps if you used a different system you could cut your detailing time by 40% or so and spending 2/3 of your time polishing and 1/3 sealing (by not having to use so many "layers" -- and I use that terms loosely...).



As for the real problem here it really does come down to the wash technique, and if you're using a QD frequently you may also have to cut that down. I have a black car and let me tell you it is a ***** to keep the finish flawless (mine isn't). I just polish a couple of panels every month or two and try to keep up on the car and avoid inducing scratches. Better to put effort into polishing the car more regularly, and doing careful washes, than to put on several "layers" of Zaino every few months, IMO. Best of luck at the show!
Click to expand...





Took the words right out of my mouth!!



IMO you didnt remove the swirls to begin with. Since you asked if you have to re-apply zaino tells me you dont fully understand what polishing does which means you probably didnt do it correctly when you did it. If you dont brake down the abbrasives fully then the oils end up masking quite a bit leading you to believe you did it right and what you are doing is working. Then a month or so later you see all the swirls re-appear when in actuality they where never gone. Alot of people make this mistake their first time out.
 
GregCavi said:
As others have said, you will need to really focus on your wash technique were most of your marring probably came from. If you are looking for a quick swirl removal, you can try ZPC followed by Z5pro. That will look nice.



I really haven't noticed a lack of releasing contaminants with Zaino, so I can't really comment on that. It seems to shed contaminants for me. :nixweiss



Greg
Click to expand...

I agree, to a point. I've used Zaino Z2 Pro for over a year now and dirt and dust would almost rinse right off the car. Not until I started using CS did I notice dirt sticking to the paint more, requiring a little more effort to get it off. When I had Z2 Pro on my wheels brake dust would literally rinse right off with the hose but now that there's CS on them zero dust will rinse off with the hose.

Just my .02
 
A few questions.



1. Did you use a pc or rotary to remove the swirls?



2. Did you wash or do a IPA or prepsol wash wipedow before you applied Zaino?



3. Recently when you washed it, what did you use to wash it? Was it a MF spounge or brush?



This will help us to figure what happened.



Thanks

Ryan
 
your error was in the meguair's 83 and the cut pad

always follow the polishing gradients in the meguiar's line or any line up to a hand glaze

then switch to the zaino line after a thourough re-wash

sal's stuff is good, but not that good. not enough oomph for 83 swirl patterns; too deep

do not use a rotary buffer faster than 1000rpm

always use a separate foam pad for each product so you do not get cross contanimation

for a quick show prep use zaino aio with an orbital or zaino dual action followed by z-5,

bear down with an orbital or porter cable, rotary is not you best tool for the show,

tic toc, tic toc

or meguar's retail line nxt paste or liquid followed by the latest quick detailer black bottle

they have filling qualities

then park stratigically @ the show to hide the swirls

good luck
 
SpoiledMan said:
The one thing that I noticed was missing from your shots in your previous thread was direct sun shots. They were all reflection shots which don't tell much about swirls. Are you sure that they were gone after your last polishing session?
Click to expand...



Positive,... see original thread.

DG
 
Accumulator said:
IMO washing regularly without marring is perhaps the hardest part of detailing...polishing just takes time and a little experience, but to *not have to polish* for long periods of time is a challenge. But a month and a half is way too soon...every year or so would be OK.



but most cars at most shows have a lot of marring and judges seldom seem to deduct for it, so I bet it won't bother anybody but you. And I sure wouldn't QD/dust a black car because IMO it's gonna mar it up (many people do that at shows and you can watch them mess up their paint in real-time right before your eyes) . Unless you want to start over, I'd just apply more Z5 for now and deal with it when you have more time.
Click to expand...



The show is not judged and even if it was I wouldn't care. This is something that drives me nuts. I pointed out the swirls to a freind of mine who insisted I was out of my mind, and that there was nothing wrong with the paint. Most people comment on how "clean" the car is, but this is a constant battle for me. I don't mean to sound like a nut,... let me get back on track... I would like to remove or cover up these swirls once more just so I can have the car looking good just a little while longer, in my eyes.





As for the washing techniques, I think I am going to have to read up on them. I agree, I think it is improper washing that is causing this. I have a new designated plastic bucket I use to keep the soap and water in. I have an almost new Meguiars Wool Mit I use to wash it with and no it has never hit the ground. I use a seperate mit to clean the wheels.



Any tips or suggestions on improving my wash technique?



DG
 
Coupe said:
Took the words right out of my mouth!!



IMO you didnt remove the swirls to begin with. Since you asked if you have to re-apply zaino tells me you dont fully understand what polishing does which means you probably didnt do it correctly when you did it. If you dont brake down the abbrasives fully then the oils end up masking quite a bit leading you to believe you did it right and what you are doing is working. Then a month or so later you see all the swirls re-appear when in actuality they where never gone. Alot of people make this mistake their first time out.
Click to expand...



WELL, DON'T HOLD BACK ON ME NOW,... What do I do to correct my methods????



DG
 
mborner said:
I agree, to a point. I've used Zaino Z2 Pro for over a year now and dirt and dust would almost rinse right off the car. Not until I started using CS did I notice dirt sticking to the paint more, requiring a little more effort to get it off. When I had Z2 Pro on my wheels brake dust would literally rinse right off with the hose but now that there's CS on them zero dust will rinse off with the hose.

Just my .02
Click to expand...



Actually you make a very vaild point :idea . I was thinking about what I did, and I noticed most of these imperfections more and more after putting the ZCS on... I wonder if ??
 
Just to add a little side note,...



I didn't glaze the paint the first time. Now I am waiting on the Dasane Wet Glaze to come into stock, but in the meanwhile i bought Four Star LCC and SMR, Collinite 845, and a bottle of RMG for another car I was planning on detailing.



I will first try the ZPC with a polishing pad, but if that doesn't work I will jump down to the SMR and a light cut pad, then wash the car, Z5,Z2, Z8 and I might try the 845 atop all that. I am no expert but from what your telling me a carnuba top coat will allow dust an dirt to escape during washing more freely.



If anyone has any polishing tips or tricks, shoot... I am using a sears Rotary right now, thats all I got to work with.



DG
 
i agree with spoiled, the other thread you have (unless you have more that im not seeing) doesnt display shots where swirls would be visible, full sun shots or halogens is what he was asking for to see what condition it was in when you were done.
 
VaSuperShine said:
i agree with spoiled, the other thread you have (unless you have more that im not seeing) doesnt display shots where swirls would be visible, full sun shots or halogens is what he was asking for to see what condition it was in when you were done.
Click to expand...



I took a few good shots, let me take a look through my camera and see if I have any with the sun directly in the paint. I remember though, I was on the field for two days, you have you random scratch here and there but no swirls. It was clean.



In the meanwhile, how can I be sure i am doing it correctly this time? When using the ZPC I thought it broke down and then I polished it out, what am I missing?



DG
 
Didnt read the whole thread but question, for this show, how much work did you do in the wheel wells (like removing tires and scrubbing like a mad man) and how much did you do under the car?



I look at my car some days and its amazing how it looks compared to some of the sh!tty cars I see at shows but then I dont think that I could enter it because for instance, the bottom of the front spoiler has scratches and curb rash. But I mean its a daily driver in MN winters with 70k miles on it so what do they expect?!?!?
 
WilliamHBonney said:
Didnt read the whole thread but question, for this show, how much work did you do in the wheel wells (like removing tires and scrubbing like a mad man) and how much did you do under the car?



I look at my car some days and its amazing how it looks compared to some of the sh!tty cars I see at shows but then I dont think that I could enter it because for instance, the bottom of the front spoiler has scratches and curb rash. But I mean its a daily driver in MN winters with 70k miles on it so what do they expect?!?!?
Click to expand...



Actually none, thats the one part of the car I missed. This time I will hit it with some trim detailer, thats about it. My bumper is all scuffed up too, the car is far from perfect. Most would reason I am wasting my time because its not like the car is in concours condition anway. But I like to control everything I am able to. If i can remove the swirs and a few scratches i will do it. In any event I intend to have the front and rear bumper resprayed next spring. No matter though, I am sure just after I have it done some guy in an old rusty buick will bump them and scuff the paint AGAIN anyway.



As for the underbody, the cars got 40K and has been garaged up until now. Every couple of months I get under there with a brush and soap and water and scrub the underbody. Its pretty clean.



DG
 
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