When M105 doesn't really cut it

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Danspeed1

New member
I just bought a bottle of M105 to do a VW GTI R32 (hard clear). I won't say I am disappointed in the product because the final outcome was awesome, but I had to wet sand the hood and taking the wet sanding marks out was a PITA. I had to make about 3 passes on a LC Twisted Wool pad at 1500RPM for any progress to be made. A while back I used a 3M product after wet sanding a GTO hood and it pretty much knocked it down in one pass. How does 3M compare to M105?



Dan
 
Yes the 3m's, some of the presta's, etc have more cut than 105, but obviously leave a much rougher finish. I rarely need to use them but when I do I'll normally do something like presta ultra/black wool then 105/orange or pfw.
 
M105 has the ability to be a heavy cut compound but doesn't really compare to the true compounds. Had a competition with a friend on a hood of a car. I used M105 and he use 3M compound. While the m105 left a much better finish that was easier to clean up with a second stepdown polish (SIP) the 3M cut sooooo much deeper. This was a freshly CC hood that had been sanded. I will say that I almost would rather have to make a couple of passes wth the m105 so I can control the amount of CC that is being taken off better. But the 3M sure did wipe away the snading marks in a hurry.



One more thing about the 3M compounds. A mask is needed when working with these products. The odor is very strong and gave me a killer headache just standing next to the guy while he used it. Wouldn't want to breathe in that dust often.
 
fergnation said:
...One more thing about the 3M compounds. A mask is needed when working with these products. The odor is very strong and gave me a killer headache just standing next to the guy while he used it. Wouldn't want to breathe in that dust often.
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Well, you oughta wear a mask with *some* of them. I don't with the PI-III stuff, but the ones with silica (e.g., PI-II FCRC) I sure do.



Eh...one might argue that breathing paint dust is bad period and that a mask is a good idea no matter what....Sure wouldn't argue with that even if I don't do it.
 
Scottwax said:
VW paint is harder than GM paint, you have to factor that in as well.
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That I did not know... :nixweiss





So looks like I may be doing a few other VW's. Now I know I need to move onto either presta or 3m. Anybody want to recommend a product. I know 3m has a couple of "extreme cuts." Not sure which one i would need (cured paint).



DG
 
DAnspeed1- I dunno if I'd *want* to get a whole lot more aggressive than M105 on somebody else's car...just thinking long term, plus, you sure don't want to have an "oops" with some Extra Cut.



I use the old PI-III Extra Cut 05936, haven't tried the newere PI-3000 version :nixweiss



Do these people really want/need, and should they receive, a finish more corrected than a few passes with M105 will deliver?



VWs won't be harder than my Audis, and M105 is plenty on those. When I hammered my M3 (very hard clear) with Extra Cut it was a do-or-die situation and I wouldn't do *that* very often.



BTW, the clear on my GMC is almost as hard as that on my Audis and harder than my other GMs were. Seems like there's a wide range of hardnesses when it comes to GM clear.
 
Sufbuf pads with M105 will get everything out for you with a PC.



For 3M I would go with 06060, I used to use that alot with yellow edge wool on rotary.



IME the next higher level of cut is strada 1000 (rocks in a bottle) with edge black wool. That is getting pretty extreme.
 
My experience with VW's is you do what you can with SIP or M105, then use a glaze like PB black hole or Presta Amigo to fill in the rest.



Not worth the risk/time IMO to grind down the super hard clear to get it 100%.



BD
 
BostonDuce said:
My experience with VW's is you do what you can with SIP or M105, then use a glaze like PB black hole or Presta Amigo to fill in the rest.



Not worth the risk/time IMO to grind down the super hard clear to get it 100%.



BD
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?:nixweiss
 
Danspeed1 said:
That I did not know... :nixweiss





So looks like I may be doing a few other VW's. Now I know I need to move onto either presta or 3m. Anybody want to recommend a product. I know 3m has a couple of "extreme cuts." Not sure which one i would need (cured paint).



DG
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On the rock hard CC's I have done, M85 on 3M wool has taken me to 95%+ correction, of course following up with a light polish. It only left the VERY deep RID's. I have a brand new bottle of M95 that I'm waiting to try out soon. From what I have heard, it has better cut than M85 and finishes nicer.
 
what about a full 4000K wetsanding to smooth everything out...? then come back with pfw and 105 once, SIP, 85rd, etc....?



Think that is a viable option? The more and more I think about it, and after talking to a couple people, I wish I had the mirka system with me on that AUDI from hell I did!



I was using pressure, twisted wool and 105 @ 1500-1700 and hardly getting anywhere....
 
toyotaguy said:
what about a full 4000K wetsanding to smooth everything out...? then come back with pfw and 105 once, SIP, 85rd, etc....?



Think that is a viable option? The more and more I think about it, and after talking to a couple people, I wish I had the mirka system with me on that AUDI from hell I did!



I was using pressure, twisted wool and 105 @ 1500-1700 and hardly getting anywhere....
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Oftentimes less speed works better with M105.



If you are trying to "level" a surface, then speed can help. However- if you are just trying to remove random scratches and swirls, then a slow speed setting combined with a thorough pad priming can make a big difference. Not saying you did not try this at any point... just thought I would chime in for all the other guys! I posted the below listed advice to Billy of Presidential Detail a while back, and it worked out well for him:





http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/112746-2-passes-m105-wool-no-luck-2.html (Post #16)



Go ahead and try this:



1. Prime the pad THOROUGHLY.

Rub it in with your hand. It'll take a bit more than you're used to applying.



2. Apply a bead of M105 to the surface, pull it in, and polish at low speed (1000 rpm).

Try 2-3 passes, or until the M105 is just starting to dry.



3. Using a fine mist, spray the surface with water.

Do not add additional product- Just re-polish with what's already in the pad.



I think you'll see a 50% improvement in the cut, but you'll probably see an increase in swirling (it can be easily removed).



After trying this method (count it as one cycle), spur the wool pad (blow it clean with compressed air if you have it).



I won't PROMISE a better result, but I am pretty sure you're going to GET a better result.





Also- if you were having a lot of trouble removing the deep stuff, the Abralon 4000 may not have made a lot of difference.

Perhaps the 2000 would suffice, or an even better option would be the Abranet Soft (2500 grit), which uses a mesh backing and cuts more aggressively than the Abralon.
 
toyotaguy- Yeah, I oftgen advocate a *VERY* careful wetsand instead of a very aggressive compounding. Takes the right mindset though and that can be a wildcard.



But as Kevin Brown pointed out, the 4K can be too gentle. Good to do the final pass(es) with, though. My painter thought I shoulda wetsanded my M3 starting with *1500* :eek: But I did OK with 2K (and yeah, the scratches came out just fine even when I tried PC/3.5" PFW/M105 instead of the rotary.



Kevin Brown- Heh heh, better be careful publicly advocating that water spriz... You know, "don't try this at home, kids!" once again ;)
 
I know this thread is dead but I am bumping it for a reason. I am getting ready to do another C4 Corvette, I am going to revisit the method Kevin Brown Suggested and report back with my results. I think M105 will suffice on the C4 but I am hoping to level it quicker using this method.



Thanks,



DG
 
SoCalB6 said:
On the rock hard CC's I have done, M85 on 3M wool has taken me to 95%+ correction, of course following up with a light polish. It only left the VERY deep RID's. I have a brand new bottle of M95 that I'm waiting to try out soon. From what I have heard, it has better cut than M85 and finishes nicer.
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I use M95 quite often as it's easier to work with than M105. It's right around M85 cut, maybe a bit more, and definitely finishes down better.
 
Used to use 95 quite a bit because it arrived here first and then the first time I tried 105 I had some problems with it clumping.

95 cuts more than 85 but has a similar finish to 84.

I hardly ever use anything other than 105 now and I fully concur that slower speeds are more effective when it comes to cutting out deeper scratches. I'd advise caution too. I've had good results with 105 and the standard W7000 pad on black Porsche Cayenne's and I reckon they've got the hardest CC I've ever worked on.



Interestingly enough I had a 3M rep recently try to put me onto their range, knowing full well that I've had a fairly close relationship to Meguiars products for ages. we had an old BMW M3 to test on. The paint was pretty ****ed, badly oxidised and plenty of RID's beneath

05032010546.jpg


He ran through the complete 3 step sand then 3 step compound/polish and I have to admit that the results were pretty impressive. The 4000 wetsand makes for a great surface to compound.

However, possibly to his dismay I suggested that it wouldn't be a fair comparason unless I did the other 1/2 of the panel with out usual products etc.. we used a Meguiars W4000 with 105 followed by a quick W7000 etc... finishing in 205.

We didn't wax or seal it with the Rep.

There was really no discernible difference in the end results although a couple of the guys in my team thought the Meguiars finish was better (just a matter of opinion really). The end result was the 3M rep after costing out his system at the best deal that he thought they could give me, suggested we'd be better of running with the products we were already using.

I had to agree with him :) :)

We finished the car with Meguiars 105 as the compound and didn't really need to wetsand many areas at all.

08032010554.jpg
 
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