What is your goof proof pad/machine/polish combo for soft paint?

S

Scottwax

New member
:hairpull



What should have been a reasonably easy 3 step ended up being a nightmare today. Black 2007 Lexus LS460. Typically, I have found that black Lexus paint is harder than most other black paints. Not this one.



I was somewhat constrained on this job due to the customer's concerns about too much clear coat levelling and his request that I use Zaino Z5 as the LSP. I quickly found that Meguiars DACP and a yellow polishing pad was doing the most swirl removal and leaving the best finish, ie minimal holograms. I then went with Z-PC and a yellow polishing pad via UDM (I've heard on more than one occasion that it does not work well via rotary) and it was leaving a lot of hazing. I've used Z-PC before and it usually leaves a pretty good finish. I then tried using Z-AIO but it didn't have enough cut to remove the hazing, plus it was leaving a weird cloudy residue. :think:



I then switch to a 50/50 mix of Optimum Polish and Poli-Seal via UDM using a yellow Meguiars polishing pad and buffed off with Z-6. That cleaned up most of the hazing and all of the cloudy residue. I then switched to a blue Soft Edge polishing pad (light polishing pad), again buffing off with Z-6. That left a pretty clear finish from what I could tell under the halogens (the sun was behind the trees and no use to me). 1 layer of ZFX'ed Z5 (customer supplied ZFX) went on and came off with no apparent cloudiness, streaking or hazing. I followed up about an hour later (cleaned the interior during that time) with Z-8. The car definitely looked a lot better than when I started (I'll have befores up probably tomorrow) and I am hopeful the car looks as good in the full sun as it did under the halogens.
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Anyway, this is a long and torturous way of asking what is your choice of pad, polish and machine when you run across paint that just doesn't respond well to your typical products. 9 times out of 10, I can get the finish I want with Poli-Seal using a blue light polishing pad and either the rotary or UDM but I need something for that 1 out of 10 cars that drives me nuts. 106FF? Ultrafina? #82?
 
Based on my experience I think your issue was the ZPC and yellow megs pad. The yellow megs pad is open celled and ZPC is water based. The megs pad seems to allow ZPC to dry out really fast especially at speed 6. The LC CCS white pad seems to allow ZPC to be worked for a longer period of time and break down better. If ZPC isn't working then try Menzerna FP2 since it is a bit less abrasive.
 
106ff, LC orange, DA



85RD, Blue CCS, rotary



Either of above LC green, Cyclo



On *most* cars with clear ranging from hard to soft I can finish superbly with LC German foam, FPII, 106ff, RE5 or 85RD using the rotary.
 
wannafbody said:
Based on my experience I think your issue was the ZPC and yellow megs pad. The yellow megs pad is open celled and ZPC is water based. The megs pad seems to allow ZPC to dry out really fast especially at speed 6. The LC CCS white pad seems to allow ZPC to be worked for a longer period of time and break down better. If ZPC isn't working then try Menzerna FP2 since it is a bit less abrasive.
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I usually use Z-PC with an orange light cutting pad on harder paints, usually leaves a really good finish. BTW, my customer has tried Z-PC using the PC and a Griot's red finishing pad and it was the same deal, lots of buffer haze. First time I've had a problem with Z-PC. Guess I will stick with using it on harder paints.
 
Scott, funny thing is that the paint on WRX's (black) is pretty soft. It also finished will with products using the orange pads.
 
I HIGHLY recommend Ultrafina and the ultrafina blue pad via rotary for the soft blacks. It's in a league of it's own and will be your best friend.



I have a 2000 Escalade in black and it is VERY soft and aged. I did a full test to see what has lubricants that act as fillers on soft paints from the forced rotation of the rotary and the pad abrasions. I had tested some of the best polishes that I have and they all failed on this particular paint. After polishing they all looked perfect until I had done 3 straight out of the bottle IPA wipedowns. After the wipedowns, the finish was horrible and you could see everything from the minor defects to the forced abraion left from the pad. For some reason, all the lubricants would react with this particular paint and leave the same dull and dry finish. Even Menzerna was doing the same thing and I was very shocked.:hairpull



I then used some Ultrafina on a blue LC pad and made the finish perfect. I did 3 IPA wipedowns, 3 Prep-sol wipedowns, and a couple other chemical wipedowns just to make sure. The finish was still perfect and after all the wipedowns, the finish diminished about 3% to be technical.



Ultrafina on a blue LC or 3M blue pad has different lubrication and is oily for protection, but is easily removed. It also contains the dust into suspension so there is no dust to wipe around to induce ultrafine marring.



Second, the blue pads have no cut, so there is no pad abrasions left behind. So the dual combo works hand in hand trying to produce and LEAVE the best finish.



When it comes to pads, LC makes some superb pads. Megs pads are nice for hard paints, but soft paints can have issues.



Hope this helps.

Ryan
 
Scott, I just used Ultrafina for the first time over the weekend and I must say that it is an AMAZING product! I detailed my Corvette, which has rock hard clear and did some testing with it. It removed compounding haze left from 3M Extra Cut compound and left a perfect swirl free finish. I used the blue Ultra Fina pad with it which worked great. You can work it forever and it doesn't dust at all. I still need to to some testing with it, but I think I may have found my new favorite finishing polish!



Thanks to Rydawg for turning me on to this stuff and to GMBlack3a for helping me track some down!!
 
rydawg said:
I HIGHLY recommend Ultrafina and the ultrafina blue pad via rotary for the soft blacks. It's in a league of it's own and will be your best friend.



I have a 2000 Escalade in black and it is VERY soft and aged. I did a full test to see what has lubricants that act as fillers on soft paints from the forced rotation of the rotary and the pad abrasions. I had tested some of the best polishes that I have and they all failed on this particular paint. After polishing they all looked perfect until I had done 3 straight out of the bottle IPA wipedowns. After the wipedowns, the finish was horrible and you could see everything from the minor defects to the forced abraion left from the pad. For some reason, all the lubricants would react with this particular paint and leave the same dull and dry finish. Even Menzerna was doing the same thing and I was very shocked.:hairpull



I then used some Ultrafina on a blue LC pad and made the finish perfect. I did 3 IPA wipedowns, 3 Prep-sol wipedowns, and a couple other chemical wipedowns just to make sure. The finish was still perfect and after all the wipedowns, the finish diminished about 3% to be technical.



Ultrafina on a blue LC or 3M blue pad has different lubrication and is oily for protection, but is easily removed. It also contains the dust into suspension so there is no dust to wipe around to induce ultrafine marring.



Second, the blue pads have no cut, so there is no pad abrasions left behind. So the dual combo works hand in hand trying to produce and LEAVE the best finish.



When it comes to pads, LC makes some superb pads. Megs pads are nice for hard paints, but soft paints can have issues.



Hope this helps.

Ryan
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Ryan, thanks for all of the info on the Ultra Fina! I used it this weekend and LOVED it. :up
 
Looks like I need to get some Ultrafina then.



Honestly, I would have preferred to follow DACP with #80 and then Pink Moose but that wouldn't have worked well with Z5.



Edit-just ordered a quart of Ultrafina. :)
 
RickRack said:
Scott, I just used Ultrafina for the first time over the weekend and I must say that it is an AMAZING product! I detailed my Corvette, which has rock hard clear and did some testing with it. It removed compounding haze left from 3M Extra Cut compound and left a perfect swirl free finish. I used the blue Ultra Fina pad with it which worked great. You can work it forever and it doesn't dust at all. I still need to to some testing with it, but I think I may have found my new favorite finishing polish!



Thanks to Rydawg for turning me on to this stuff and to GMBlack3a for helping me track some down!!
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Glad you liked it. I know Bryan is loving it too.



Everyone that I have told to try it has said it is their favorite finishing polish. I have LOTS of happy emails.
 
PO85RD and Ultrafina are very similar and both have great (but diferent) finish, the one from Menzerna, clearer.
 
Scottwax said:
I usually use Z-PC with an orange light cutting pad on harder paints, usually leaves a really good finish. BTW, my customer has tried Z-PC using the PC and a Griot's red finishing pad and it was the same deal, lots of buffer haze. First time I've had a problem with Z-PC. Guess I will stick with using it on harder paints.
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ZPC with a red finishing pad is a mismatch. I've read other posts and my experience is that ZPC, swirl removers and finishing pads don't work together well on a PC. A rotary is a different story. The UF sounds as if it's a great choice for finicky paints.
 
wannafbody said:
ZPC with a red finishing pad is a mismatch. I've read other posts and my experience is that ZPC, swirl removers and finishing pads don't work together well on a PC. A rotary is a different story. The UF sounds as if it's a great choice for finicky paints.
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The Meguiars pad wasn't working and I used the pad he had used with ZPC on his car. I guess that is why he gave up?
 
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