What happened to the old Autopia?

WhyteWizard said:
There are differences of opinion about what methods and products work. Typically, those differences get examined and tested, people make their cases, present their arguments, others critique and present their own ideas and everyone benefits from the discussion.



Of course, this isn't a free speech zone. The owners and moderators are free to censor anything they like. I agree with keeping things civil and respectful so we can work together to get to the best result.



Then there's this : "Spamming or business advertisements by businesses who do not Sponsor AUTOPIA.ORG is not allowed. Threads or PMs determined to be "spam" will be deleted or forwarded to the Administrators. This type of posting may result with privileges to our forum being restricted or denied without notice.



To offer added support to our Sponsors, we would ask that you refrain from overly recommending non-Sponsor businesses, products, or services that are in direct competition to our Sponsors in your thread replies. If you wish to offer another source to our Members, please use the PM option to give the information to a members in a private manner.



Soliciting for Members of this site to go and join another site is also considered a form of Spam. Mentioning another site for reference or as an information source is acceptable but direct solicitation aimed at our Members to bolster some other site's Membership is inappropriate and subject to Moderator disciplinary action.



If you represent a car care product vendor, please identify your business in your signature line (phone numbers, email addresses and website URLs are not allowed).



If you are interested in Sponsoring AUTOPIA.ORG, please contact us."



So, as long as we know that the information here is limited in that way, we can live with those limitations or move on.



It seems to me, an alternative to strictly removing mention of non-sponsored products might be to contact the makers of products that start getting noticed here and asking them if they'd like to get involved. That way the commercial interests could be addressed while still allowing for a more free exchange of ideas.





All the best,

Robert
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Robert, somehow I wonder if you actually read most of the posts you reply to. You joined in 2009, what do you know? I do consider this place a free speech zone. More so than any other forum online. The forum administration staff is very well respected, and they moderate the forum as little as possible. You can even trash David B's products and as long as you do it in a factual, constructive manner, there is no problem. So, I'm left wondering, what exactly was your point anyway?
 
yakky said:
Robert, somehow I wonder if you actually read most of the posts you reply to. You joined in 2009, what do you know? I do consider this place a free speech zone. More so than any other forum online. The forum administration staff is very well respected, and they moderate the forum as little as possible. You can even trash David B's products and as long as you do it in a factual, constructive manner, there is no problem. So, I'm left wondering, what exactly was your point anyway?
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I quoted the spam rule. There are limitations and I absolutely agree with having them. If there weren't the place would be filled with nothing but links to stuff having nothing to do with detailing. It's not a "free speech zone" and it shouldn't be.



I've posted links to other sites, Petco for example and have suggested using Mr. Clean Magic erasers and Scrubbing Bubbles and no one took the posts down or contacted me telling me to knock it off.



What I was looking at was another post that got taken down, as it turns out, by the person who posted it.



As for what I know... I know enough not to be rude. I'd like to contribute here and since I've been in the business 30 years, detailing everything from brand new cars to hot rods, classic cars and cars headed for Pebble Beach I think I have something to add. At the same time, I know I don't have as much experience as does the whole group combined so there's always something to learn.



I'd like to get into a full blown discussion of the various methods of defect removal along with the products and and techniques used but I think the spam rule might be a problem. I'm going to try and work that out.



BTW, I've bought and tried just about every polish there is but I try not to talk about what I don't use. There are lots of things that work. Some require more user input to get a good result, some take more time but are certain and almost user irrelevant. They all have their place.



Robert
 
WhyteWizard said:
I quoted the spam rule. There are limitations and I absolutely agree with having them. If there weren't the place would be filled with nothing but links to stuff having nothing to do with detailing. It's not a "free speech zone" and it shouldn't be.



I've posted links to other sites, Petco for example and have suggested using Mr. Clean Magic erasers and Scrubbing Bubbles and no one took the posts down or contacted me telling me to knock it off.



What I was looking at was another post that got taken down, as it turns out, by the person who posted it.



As for what I know... I know enough not to be rude. I'd like to contribute here and since I've been in the business 30 years, detailing everything from brand new cars to hot rods, classic cars and cars headed for Pebble Beach I think I have something to add. At the same time, I know I don't have as much experience as does the whole group combined so there's always something to learn.



I'd like to get into a full blown discussion of the various methods of defect removal along with the products and and techniques used but I think the spam rule might be a problem. I'm going to try and work that out.



BTW, I've bought and tried just about every polish there is but I try not to talk about what I don't use. There are lots of things that work. Some require more user input to get a good result, some take more time but are certain and almost user irrelevant. They all have their place.



Robert
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Well, one might question why you can't talk about products without posting links? I'm pretty sure if anyone is interested in a product, they know how to find it. I think the fact that you don't want to talk about products you've tried but have not used, might be a big turnoff for some people, myself included. I totally discredit posts that just talk about a specific product and don't compare it to others. To me, that is advertising.



Like I said before, I feel completely free to say anything I want about a product here as long as it is constructive feedback, even the site owners pride and joy. I can't say the same about some other forums that also sell products.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I don't know why you got thrown under, it didn't make a whole lot of sense at the time. I think part of the difference you perceive now may be due to the season, the lack of the chatroom as it was back then, the economy and the national mood, and perhaps some products and some realizations about where products come from that radically altered processes and perceptions "back in the old days".



For instance, a lot of interest in detailing comes when people get a new car...that's not happening so much right now. A lot of people are concerned about other things than detailing, don't have as much disposable income, etc. It may also be that there aren't quite as many new product lines being discovered as there were back then...Poorboy's was fairly new, Optimum, Jeff's Werkstatt, people were just discovering Menzerna and their Ceramiclear polishes, etc.
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I think you are totally right... I know I've been way too busy the last 2 years to even think about detailing... After leaving autopia I also started to realize how pointless a lot of the stuff I had bought really was and how similar a lot of products are. I've pretty much only used 10% of my detailin arsenal in the last 3 years, the rest has just sat and is probably bad by now. haha Only stuff I've bought since then were all the same brand.
 
Scottwax said:
Agreed. Not nearly as much product hype as there used to be and now the focus is more on prep than LSP.
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That is one thing I have definitely noticed about the current autopia... not so much LSP hype... or product hype in general...
 
yakky said:
Well, one might question why you can't talk about products without posting links? I'm pretty sure if anyone is interested in a product, they know how to find it. I think the fact that you don't want to talk about products you've tried but have not used, might be a big turnoff for some people, myself included. I totally discredit posts that just talk about a specific product and don't compare it to others. To me, that is advertising.



Like I said before, I feel completely free to say anything I want about a product here as long as it is constructive feedback, even the site owners pride and joy. I can't say the same about some other forums that also sell products.
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I'll answer the second question, but for the first part, in red, you'll have to ask someone in charge.



I don't talk about the products I've tried and don't use, because the products I use are the ones that work for me. I do side by side comparisons across different kinds of paint in different situations to come to what I'll use the majority of the time. When it comes to those products, I'm certain I can tell you how to get a good result because I use them every day and there's no point in me saying anything negative about other products or methods. It's not that I can't critique them, it's that I don't think it's a valuable use of my time.



Of course, people can infer a negative from my rejection of other products and methods but here's the important point - I could be using those products badly. Every product has people here who use it and like it, so I leave it to them to support those products and techniques. I'm happy to compare and contrast and the movement between the pad and paint of the Makita BO6040 and the PC or other random orbital or the Flex is something I'll point out, but then, you'll have to decide for yourself if more movement equals more work or not, or if the motion of the random orbital v. the forced rotation of the dual action gives one or the other an advantage. This btw is highly contentious.



Come to think of it. I use a high speed for basic paint correction - and I look forward to explaining the advantages and disadvantages as I see it compared to other methods, but then again, I expect others to point out what they think might be flaws in my technique, I just hope they'll hang around long enough to see what I'm doing before deciding.
 
ThatGuySkye said:
That is one thing I have definitely noticed about the current autopia... not so much LSP hype... or product hype in general...
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People started to get wiser and realized Turtle Wax will even look great on corrected paint. That's the reason I never understood people wasting money on tons of LSP. You need a few and call it a day. Polishes are the work horses so spend money wisely.
 
Got_Leather said:
People started to get wiser and realized Turtle Wax will even look great on corrected paint. That's the reason I never understood people wasting money on tons of LSP. You need a few and call it a day. Polishes are the work horses so spend money wisely.
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I'd rather put $220-230 into a gallon of #105, gallon of #205 and a quart of Ultrafina than the same amount into a wax.
 
I think everyone is kidding themselves if they don't think Autopia has changed since the "whole Todd Helme thing". He took with him many of the usually posters on here. Todd was a center point on most of the new products on the market. Why wouldn't you want to see how the new LSP looked on a vintage Ferarri or what his thoughts were on the new polishes that had recently been released. Don't get me wrong, and don't think for a second that I am taking sides on the situation but most of the talk centered around his C&B's.



I also agree that the season is making a big difference at this moment in time. It always does during the winter.



I started coming on here to learn about new products and tools to use. There is not much talk about these becasue it has been a slow time for new products. No Zaino, no Meg's 105, Blackfire or other products that swept through the Autopia threads. Oh wait, can't forget the whole "Flex" storm. So I think you have to factor in that it has been kind of slow on the new product releases. Sorry David, the HQ will get it's due in the spring when everyone has to have the new greatest thing to clean their car.



Even with all that said, there is nothing even close to Autopia when it come to detailing. But I do miss the old days even if those old days have a date in the 98's. I just used to really enjoy the posts of those that have left to go elsewhere.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I think you're proving my point...



After a while, all this chest puffing starts to sound like Gordo Cooper in The Right Stuff; "who's the best pilot you've ever seen?" Boring.
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I think we all know the answer to that question. ;)
 
Scottwax said:
I'd rather put $220-230 into a gallon of #105, gallon of #205 and a quart of Ultrafina than the same amount into a wax.
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There just isn't much you *can't* get done with those three things right there.



For me at least, those are the "core" products. Everything else (even my beloved FPII and PO85RD) are optional luxuries.



Great post, and great advice, Scott (as always).
 
fergnation said:
I think everyone is kidding themselves if they don't think Autopia has changed since the "whole Todd Helme thing". He took with him many of the usually posters on here. Todd was a center point on most of the new products on the market. Why wouldn't you want to see how the new LSP looked on a vintage Ferarri or what his thoughts were on the new polishes that had recently been released. Don't get me wrong, and don't think for a second that I am taking sides on the situation but most of the talk centered around his C&B's.
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I think the thread starter is talking about pre-Todd autopia. A lot of us were here long before Todd showed up. As far as the latest LSP on a vintage Ferrari, Todd even admitted he tweaks color levels in his pictures and even without him saying so, it was obvious he was doing so. No way to tell what an LSP "looks like" in forum pictures. IMO, what Todd excelled at was his attention to prep, which is the key to a good detail.



When I first joined Autopia, the product wars were between Klasse and Zaino and picture threads were not very common, which to me seemed very odd for a visual craft like detailing. So I started posting a lot of pictures. For some reason, the Zaino guys took offense. I was accused of changing settings on my camera (odd, considering I was using a 35mm Nikon SLR) and over-exposing pictures on purpose to make my work look better. Not much you can do with black cars on concrete on sunny days using a 35mm camera with very little leeway in exposure settings. What was really funny was how if I could manipulate my pictures to make dark cars look good, I sure as heck couldn't make light colored cars look good. If you go back in some of my early threads (assuming the pictures are still hosted) you can see the lighter colored cars look washed out with not much shine or gloss. Regardless, a lot of the old guard on Autopia hated all the click and brag threads that started popping up and a lot of the anger was directed (and not subtly) at me and I guess at DavidB as well for allowing a click and brag forum. Things kind of deteriorated from there and bans got handed out. The banned members formed their own forum, which I'm not sure still exists.
 
fergnation said:
I think everyone is kidding themselves if they don't think Autopia has changed since the "whole Todd Helme thing".
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I couldn't agree more. I also believe that Todd pioneered a new style of "Click and Brag" for the Pro's and Joe's alike and, THANKFULLY, that style caught on and has created some wonderful stories and examples of how detailing for us autopians has evolved and matured into restoration. He brought to autopia an analytical mind, scientific approach, and an artistically methodical process that has become the norm.



IN fact, one of the reasons I don't post more details is that I don't have the time, the patience for artistic process shots, or the post detail 3-4 hours it takes to select photos and upload the story. Mind you that I love that others out there do it for us, but I like to get it done and move on to the next job.



There was a time was products were fewer, technologies were less, and true experts were concentrated. But we are not in those times anymore. Thanks to the richness of the talent on here, the willingness of a few masters to begin their own product lines, and the willingness of companies to meet our demands...we are part of a new age of detailing and Autopia.:2thumbs:



There's my ramble. I'm sure there's something in there you can find interesting, :heelclick
 
D Tailor said:
I couldn't agree more. I also believe that Todd pioneered a new style of "Click and Brag" for the Pro's and Joe's alike
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Wish he'd been posting them back in '01 and '02, maybe he would have got all the hate from the old guard instead of me. ;)
 
I heard Todd is writing a tell-all book, called "Going Rotary", where he tells the real story....rumor is he's running for Top Detailer in 2012...
 
I don't think there is any question that Autopia has changed. Some for better, some for worse.



I can tell you that I clearly remember some of the zealots (not just Zaino either) on here and the crap that they posted and got away with was amazing. Plenty of them were idiots that clearly had no idea what they were talking about.



Autopia was clearly better after putting an end to that crap.



But there have been some (what I consider to be) very valuable members here who have been banned, which is disappointing. I was glad to see some have been allowed to come back.
 
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