Water Spots ETCHED - Experts please help (Orlando, FL)

[04MC]

Hi guys I finally registered here. Bought a beautiful 04 mystic chrome cobra 3 months ago with 5500 miles. I guess the last owner didn't really detail the car.



I currently have a Griots Garage Orbital like the PC and have been using meguiars swirl remover, glaze and recently bought the NXT ... stuff doesn't last long true, but goes on and off very easy.



So I did the usual clay, swirl remover with orange pad (from griots) followed with the glaze and NXT ... On the hood roof trunk i used nxt waited till the next day and put a coat of griots carnauba paste (which from what I read here is the same as natty's blue?)

Well UNFORTUNATELY I still have water spots on the paint :furious:



Today I tried 3M Compound (part #03900) with orange pad from griots (talk about DUST :wall: I started with some quick detailer on the pad and then applied the compound on the pad, put machine on 2 to spread the product then to 5 ... went over the trunk a lot of times slowly, and I can tell they're wanting to go away, but the marks are still there.



What am I doing wrong here? Is the machine just not strong enough and not cutting ? Wrong pad? Maybe I am not working the product all the way???? I noticed a lot of dust and its starting to get dry, so removed it and did it again 3 times ... Still can see the SPOTS under light :furious: :furious:



This is really bothering me because I everytime I :buffing: my car I can see them :wall







I could not get the camera to capture the marks I see with my eyes, but I guess these two pics of the trunk area give an idea - the only way i see these marks are at an angle

I am trying to avoid taking the car somewhere to be done with a rotary ....





Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Envious Eric]

one time with the rotary is not going to harm it...unless the water etching is through the clearcoat and the paint and you want them out that bad to risk a new paint job rather than just live with it....



you can essentially get it detailed for the next 10 years two times a year with a PC and light compound compared to heavy compounding 4 times a year with a rotary for 2 years...numbers might be off, but you get the point

 

[Envious Eric]

oh and whats wrong with speed 6? bump it up and see if that helps any, as it should....



also, on heavily water spotted cars working with a PC, I use a heavy compound and a cutting pad and have at it, or use diluted CLR and see if that gets most of it off, then wash the car again



process:



wash

clay

polish

polish not working out so

mix CLR and water in a bucket

use a sponge and wipe in sections

rinse the section extremely well

move on to the next section and repeat wipe/rinse process

then wash the whole car again

dry

polish again

wax



that is what I did on some jetski's and it turned out much much better than trying to polish it all out...after the CLR, I was just left with the swirls from drying after river trips

 

[04MC]

I really want them out ... I have tried white vinegar on the roof ... got frustrated and that's when I stopped and just kept the normal detailing glaze/wax until the other night I just could not stand looking at those water spots :sadpace:



I read the other day about this CLR and I posted in an old thread where someone said they were going to try it and never posted results again :wall:



So Home Depot sells CLR hmm? Give me a percentage to mix this CLR/water



I am going to give it a try. Thanks a lot for the reply! :2thumbs:



More replies welcome

 

[04MC]

just found your reply to the post I made inside the old thread ...

CLR is relatively cheap - i used it on a jetski when water spots were all over and not polishing out....CLR took them out right away! i havent used it on paint, but i'd imagine the effects would be the same...



process:



mix a bucket with about 1/2 cup of CLR and three gallons of water/soap

wet the car

dunk in your mitt

wipe the car in sections, and rinse immediately after with the hose - OVER RINSE

then move on to the next section and repeat...the key is to rinse a lot and fast....dont let it sit on the paint!

what about a smaller mix something I could do with a small sponge and spray quick detailer/distilled water right after?

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Goodluck. If there is residue causing the watermarks, then you can chemically clean it...



however if the watermarks are etched into the clear, then its like having scratches and you need to machine buff them off.



I detailed this Corvette (with much harder clear then a Mustang)... Orginally it had severe water etching from the dealer, but I deleted a lot of the pics...

and severe swirls...

but it turned out great!!1

 

[Dan]

I think the CLR may work on water deposit type spots, but not acid rain spots.

 

[paul34]

Yea... CLR can be found at basically any store. I picked up a bottle from Wal-Mart the other day to use on my shower doors and wow that stuff really works, a lot better than lime a way without being a harsh acid...



However, like yakky said, it'll probably only help you if the spots are deposit-based. If the spots simply reflect clear coat damage (like acid etching), then the CLR probably won't help much.



Regardless, its worth a try, and won't hurt anything if used correctly. Plus, even if it doesn't work on the car, its extremely useful around the house, so its not like you'll waste your money. Just pick up a bottle, you've really got nothing to lose

 

[imported_Detailing Technology]

You can also try white vinegar and water to wash or an FK1 decontaminiation kit.



I always have luck with the vinegar and "water like" spots, much cheaper than a decontamination kit (yes I know the kit removes more kinds of contaminants)

 

[04MC]

Nice pics of the black vette :2thumbs: See my spots can only be seen under fluorescent light not daylight. I'll take some pics shortly and post them





I just looked at the trunk where I polished yesterday and I can tell they're starting to go away its like I can only see the edges ( ) of the marks now ... weird. Well I am a little afraid using this CLR stuff ....

 

[Accumulator]

04MC- Call me chicken, but I wouldn't try CLR on *my* vehicles and I'm not really paranoid about using strong products on auto paint



CLR is acidic, so that's not gonna help with acid rain, but would help with alkaline deposits.



As mentioned, it's a matter of the spots being deposits on the paint or etching *into* the paint. At this point I'd *guess* that they're etched in, making little craters in the clear.



Some etching is just too deep to be safely removed, remember that you only have so much clear to work with over the life of the paintjob. I have etching on the roof of my wife's A8, maybe I could get more aggressive with the rotary but I'd rather have thick but imperfect paint so I live with it.



There are a bunch of compounds from 3M. If you're using the PI-II FineCutRubbingCompound (pn 39002 in the 16 oz. bottle) then wear a mask and don't breath the dust (silica-based, bad for lungs). The Griot's orange pad is, IMO a bit mild for that kind of correction, I'd step up to the "other orange pad", the light-cut one. I'd also consider usig 4" pads for correction like this. But I'd *also* consider just living with the etching.



OTOH, there are people who'd wetsand it with 3-4K paper, then compound it aggressively, then do a final polish. Those people would probably say it's no big deal but man would that take off a lot of clear...

 

[imported_Totoland Mach]

Hi guys I finally registered here. Bought a beautiful 04 mystic chrome cobra 3 months ago with 5500 miles. I guess the last owner didn't really detail the car.



I currently have a Griots Garage Orbital like the PC and have been using meguiars swirl remover, glaze and recently bought the NXT ... stuff doesn't last long true, but goes on and off very easy.



So I did the usual clay, swirl remover with orange pad (from griots) followed with the glaze and NXT ... On the hood roof trunk i used nxt waited till the next day and put a coat of griots carnauba paste (which from what I read here is the same as natty's blue?)



Well UNFORTUNATELY I have water spots still on the paint :furious:



Today I tried 3M Compound with orange pad (talk about DUST :wall: I started with some quick detailer on the pad and then applied the compound on the pad, put machine on 2 to spread the product then to 5 ... went over the trunka lot of times slowly, and I can tell they're wanting to go away, but the marks are still there.



What am I doing wrong here? Is the machine just not strong enough and not cutting ? Wrong pad? Maybe I am not working the product all the way???? I noticed a lot of dust and its starting to get dry, so removed it and did it again 3 times ... Still can see the SPOTS under light :furious: :furious:



This is really bothering me because I everytime I :buffing: my car I can see them :wall:



I am trying to avoid taking the car somewhere to be done with a rotary ....





Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

04MC: unfortunately, your tool of choice (Griot's) is not strong enough to work the 3M compound. The compound typically works by the heat generated from the rotary pad and the Griot's won't do that. I've done lots of work with a pc-type tool (Porter-Cable and Festool) and with a DeWalt Rotary in a BMW shop. In the shop, I first use a paint guage to determine if the car has been sanded and compounded before. If there is enough material, I sand with 3M 3000 grit pad on a Snap-On air powered orbital and body shine for lube. Then, I compound with 3M light cut compound on a foam cutting pad on the rotary. Followed by glaze on a finish pad with the rotary.



Here's a pic of a sanded BMW hood that had water spots, bird etchings, scratches, and lots of small stone chips:

Wiping down after sanding to prep for compounding

Partial Compounding

Compounded and Glazed

Finished with Meg's 26 and ready for power wash to remove product splatter

In the end, you should decided if you want the etching gone for good. I'd recommend seeking a pro detailer via phone or in person and ask them for recommendations. If they want to sand and compound, ask them if they use a paint guage beforehand. Ask for references and examples of their work.



Totoland Mach

 

[04MC]

ADDED PICS TO MY 1ST POST - CHECK THEM OUT PLEASE!







ACC - Thanks for the advice. A8 hmmm? Nice Which other orange pad? The Lakeland ones? I have no idea of what kind of deposits they are, so ya using CLR might not do anything and end up damaging the paint, so I don't want that to happen.



Totoland Mach,



I need to call around and find someone like you that actually has a paint gauge and some experience with rotary machines. Nice job on the BMW :2thumbs:

 

[imported_Totoland Mach]

ADDED PICS TO MY 1ST POST - CHECK THEM OUT PLEASE!



Totoland Mach,



I need to call around and find someone like you that actually has a paint gauge and some experience with rotary machines. Nice job on the BMW :2thumbs:

Thanks for the compliment. Sanding and compounding isn't for everybody to use, but I've had an excellent teacher with the BMW shop owner. It's a little intimidating to "practice" on $30/k + used vehicles...but I got over it by the time I did 6 or 7 jobs!



Here's an X5 I partially sanded, then compounded

All Done!

Toto

 

[04MC]

hey if you plan on coming to Orlando anytime soon let me know :laugh:

 

[imported_themightytimmah]

You can probably get out of that without sanding - if Griot's via dual action is knocking the edges down, a rotary and HTEC should knock them out. It's a pretty common problem in Florida, the water here contains a lot of lime and sprinklers/etc tend to etch real bad.



I'm out of state until early January, but if you haven't been able to fix the problem by then, shoot me a PM.

 

[04MC]

Much appreciated. :xyxthumbs



Accumulator mentioned that the griots orange pad is not as "cutting" as the other orange pads ... maybe trying another orange lakeland pad with different compound (without all this dust :furious would work or just waste of time & product?

 

[AngieD]

I highly recommend the Lake Country pads. Maybe try an orange light cutting or a yellow cutting pad. Optimum and Menzerna polishes are very popular on here . Have you clayed the car yet? Maybe try that. I would go with the Optimum Polish and Compound. Maybe the HyperCompound. I know some people mix the hyper and polish to make a compound. You won't see any dusting with Optimum. Menzerna works great too, it does dust a little but produces awesome results as well. I really like how both finish off. You can't go wrong with either.



By the way, what kind of paint is that? Is it stock color?

 

[imported_Totoland Mach]

Much appreciated. :xyxthumbs



Accumulator mentioned that the griots orange pad is not as "cutting" as the other orange pads ... maybe trying another orange lakeland pad with different compound (without all this dust :furious) would work or just waste of time & product?

You might try a cutting pad like Lake County or Propel and Optimum Compound (it is relatively dust free and I use it all the time in the shop). It's getting so different companies use similar colors for not-so-similar applications, so check with the vendor and tell them you want a medium cutting foam pad.



The problem with Griot's is the machine is "very" smooth....so smooth that it doesn't generate the heat needed for the compound to work. I tested one out earlier this year and it's a great product if your finish is in good shape prior to using it.



One method to test that won't cost a ton: get some Meguiar's Scratch X and apply it with a corner of a microfiber towel. Keep working one spot until you feel the heat on your finger from the friction of rubbing in the product. Wipe off the residue and see if that works. That should tell you if you need rotary work done or not.



Toto

 

[04MC]

Mystic Chrome Cobra total of around 1100 (coupes/convertibles) produced by Ford in 04



Tell you this ... before using the PC with the 3M compound at the trunk area I used a small micro fiber applicator with the 3M compound (part #03900) on one area on the hood and the marks started to come out (like I could see the edge of the spots get shiny. I did notice the pad was getting hot when I touched it. I got a little worried and stopped.