I don't really understand what makes petroleum based products different from carnaubas or polymers. I obviously know the differences between carnaubas and polymers, but where do petroleum based products fit in? I'm especially confused about Clearkote's carnauba moose wax. While this is a carnauba product, I'm told this is also petroleum-based. So, what does this mean exactly?
understanding petroleum based products
- Thread starter III
- Start date
imported_Burlyq
New member
Pondscum said:
And to go farther the good sealants also use petroleum solvents but are water based. I bought a petroleum based product once and I will not by another. It was called Powershine, and it puts a nice shine, but it's like wiping oil on your car.
Meguiars had a good decent write up on their FAQ's
27. I have been told that products that contain petroleum distillates are bad for my car's finish. What does Meguiar's have to say about this considering some of your products list petroleum distillates in the "Caution Statement", on the back labels?
Petroleum distillates are a huge category that includes thousands of products. In fact, the term refers to anything that comes from the distillation, or cracking process, of petroleum crude oil.
This includes gasoline, propane, paint thinners, mineral oils, paraffin wax, baby oil, Vaseline® and even Chap-Stick® just to name a few.
As you can see by the ingredients listed in Chap Stick® brand lip balm, broad generalizations stating "all Petroleum Distillates are bad" is just as disingenuous as stating "Silicones are Harmful".
All of the above-mentioned products fall under the category of Petroleum Distillates. While some petroleum distillates can be very dangerous, others are very safe. To group all petroleum distillates into one category and label them harmful or dangerous is unfair. Like the dishonest claim that silicones are harmful, claiming that all petroleum distillates are harmful is also dishonest and disingenuous.
While it's likely there are car care products on the market that do use inexpensive solvents derived from petroleum crude oil in their formula's, Meguiar's only uses ingredients, including petroleum distillates, that are combined in a way to create a product that is beneficial to the paint.
27. I have been told that products that contain petroleum distillates are bad for my car's finish. What does Meguiar's have to say about this considering some of your products list petroleum distillates in the "Caution Statement", on the back labels?
Petroleum distillates are a huge category that includes thousands of products. In fact, the term refers to anything that comes from the distillation, or cracking process, of petroleum crude oil.
This includes gasoline, propane, paint thinners, mineral oils, paraffin wax, baby oil, Vaseline® and even Chap-Stick® just to name a few.
As you can see by the ingredients listed in Chap Stick® brand lip balm, broad generalizations stating "all Petroleum Distillates are bad" is just as disingenuous as stating "Silicones are Harmful".
All of the above-mentioned products fall under the category of Petroleum Distillates. While some petroleum distillates can be very dangerous, others are very safe. To group all petroleum distillates into one category and label them harmful or dangerous is unfair. Like the dishonest claim that silicones are harmful, claiming that all petroleum distillates are harmful is also dishonest and disingenuous.
While it's likely there are car care products on the market that do use inexpensive solvents derived from petroleum crude oil in their formula's, Meguiar's only uses ingredients, including petroleum distillates, that are combined in a way to create a product that is beneficial to the paint.
imported_Burlyq
New member
HotRodGuy said:
I agree with the first part, and that's the problem. Basic chemistry is like attracts like. Think about degreaser's, they are oil based because they attract oil. My favorite degreaser is a banana oil product, it attracts grease and as a bonus smells good. Anyhow, you are right I would not put a petroleum based product on a petroleum based product.
As for second part, Most of the good care car products are water based with petroleum solvents that leave the product after application. If you use a petroleum based product the oil does not leave and and the surface stays oily. Funny you mention megs because I do have an oily issue with one of their products but I will leave that nameless, those who use it know it.
Now is this exact? No. Everyone blurrs the line because there's a million different solvents and many different levels of petroleum in any given product, and some solvents may not completley dissapate, or leave a residue, etc. I have used probably twenty or more different surface products and there have been a few that leave the surface oily and I don't prefer them. Open a bottle of powershine and it smells like crude oil, equals petroleum based, I have a bottle if you promise to put it on your car I'll send it to you cause I aint using it. Would any of you let a dab of motor oil dry on your car for a month in summer? I wouldn't put vasiline on my car either. How about filtered water? Sure no prob, let it dry baby.
I'm not dishonest and disingenuous, my favorite sealant, cleaner, and topper have petroleum distalates, but it's not petroleum based, and I think that was the first dudes question.
6cyl's_of_fury
its naturally curly......
I will try and make it as simple as I can. Petroleum based products can be waxes, sealants, polishes. Its an ingredient like carnauba, not a seperate class of product all together.
Petroleum based are those that have the majority of the carrier as a PD ( petroleum distillate ) - this is the component that evaporates and causes the product like wax or sealants to "haze" and extend the workability time of polishes. Dont be overly concerned with PD based products, there are literally millions of PD derivatives in so many products, the likelyhood of a noted or Autopian respected car care manufacturer using a PD that is harmful to your paint/clearcoat finish is neglible.
Add to this that PD's are often added to water based products to aid or speed up the evaporation of the carrier ( water ) so the product hazes.
There wont be many car care products that dont contain a PD in some form or another. Its not anything to be overly concerned about. With the impending VOC tightening, most manufacturers have said that it will slow the cure rate of their respective products, as the easiest way to lower VOC is to lower PD's - less PD's, the slower the evaporation.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Petroleum Distillates:
Crude oil, which before refining is a complex mixture of hydrocarbons that contain impurities such as sulphur, nitrogen and trace amounts of metals that varies from almost clear to a very thick, heavy black asphalt like compound that most people associate with crude oil. The word petroleum comes from the Latin â€ËœPetraâ€â„¢ (rock) and â€ËœOleumâ€Â� (oil) Petroleum consists of various hydrocarbons, these hydrocarbons are extracted by a fractional distillation process (distillation is a basic process used to separate and purify by heating a liquid and condensing it)
Crude oil is heated in a pressurized vessel called a fractional distillation column, this process changes the liquids to a vapor, the lighter more volatile rise to a higher level in the column where they condense and are collected. The heavier vapors (diesel and fuel oils) are collected on trays at mid level. The heaviest vapors like waxes, asphalt and tars are collected at a lower level of the column for further processing, typically catalytic and thermal cracking
Petroleum distillates contain both aromatic hydrocarbons (carbon rings) and aliphatic hydrocarbons (straight carbon chains). The chemical structure of the hydrocarbon largely defines the nature and behaviour of these compounds. Aromatic hydrocarbons are the most toxic compounds found in petroleum products.
a) Aromatic hydrocarbons have a pleasant odour and include such substances as naphthalene, xylene, toluene, and benzene. Most aromatic hydrocarbons are long-term toxins and known cancer causing agents, they are strong solvents and are used as a base for many useful compounds (i.e. engine degreaser, tar removers, etc) anywhere a strong solvent is required
b) Aliphatic hydrocarbons include methane, propane, and kerosene. Aliphatic hydrocarbons are flammable and may be explosively flammable.
c) After further distillation aliphatic produce naphthenic hydrocarbonâ€â„¢s, these are used to produce light oils and as a base for light solvents adhesives and paint additives. Further purification produces Cyclo Paraffin and it is used in many pharmaceutical and skin beauty products. Cyclo Paraffin compounds are also used in car care waxes and polishes, used as a carrier system as they easily dissolve wax and provide spread ability and a lubricant for waxes, machine polishes and glazes.
a) Cyclo Paraffin hydrocarbonâ€â„¢s are used in many car care products and perform many different and important functions. They are also used in many cleaning products as solvents to quickly emulsify oils, grease road tar and grime. They will not harm plastics, vinyl or rubber nor will they remove any important components like flex agents, plasticizers and etc, while it helps to clean and replace necessary oils to their surface.
b) UVR protection is not water-soluble and the use of petroleum distillates (Cyclo Paraffin) enables them to be included as an oil-in-water emulsion in wax, sealant, various plastics and rubber and vinyl dressings
Any product that contains a petroleum distillate in its formula must be labelled with the phrase "Contains petroleum distillates" regardless of the actual properties of the distillate used, the reason for this is labelling requirements is mandated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, a government agency.
Information source: EPA /Purdue University Study, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency website
JonM
~Hope this helps~
Crude oil, which before refining is a complex mixture of hydrocarbons that contain impurities such as sulphur, nitrogen and trace amounts of metals that varies from almost clear to a very thick, heavy black asphalt like compound that most people associate with crude oil. The word petroleum comes from the Latin â€ËœPetraâ€â„¢ (rock) and â€ËœOleumâ€Â� (oil) Petroleum consists of various hydrocarbons, these hydrocarbons are extracted by a fractional distillation process (distillation is a basic process used to separate and purify by heating a liquid and condensing it)
Crude oil is heated in a pressurized vessel called a fractional distillation column, this process changes the liquids to a vapor, the lighter more volatile rise to a higher level in the column where they condense and are collected. The heavier vapors (diesel and fuel oils) are collected on trays at mid level. The heaviest vapors like waxes, asphalt and tars are collected at a lower level of the column for further processing, typically catalytic and thermal cracking
Petroleum distillates contain both aromatic hydrocarbons (carbon rings) and aliphatic hydrocarbons (straight carbon chains). The chemical structure of the hydrocarbon largely defines the nature and behaviour of these compounds. Aromatic hydrocarbons are the most toxic compounds found in petroleum products.
a) Aromatic hydrocarbons have a pleasant odour and include such substances as naphthalene, xylene, toluene, and benzene. Most aromatic hydrocarbons are long-term toxins and known cancer causing agents, they are strong solvents and are used as a base for many useful compounds (i.e. engine degreaser, tar removers, etc) anywhere a strong solvent is required
b) Aliphatic hydrocarbons include methane, propane, and kerosene. Aliphatic hydrocarbons are flammable and may be explosively flammable.
c) After further distillation aliphatic produce naphthenic hydrocarbonâ€â„¢s, these are used to produce light oils and as a base for light solvents adhesives and paint additives. Further purification produces Cyclo Paraffin and it is used in many pharmaceutical and skin beauty products. Cyclo Paraffin compounds are also used in car care waxes and polishes, used as a carrier system as they easily dissolve wax and provide spread ability and a lubricant for waxes, machine polishes and glazes.
a) Cyclo Paraffin hydrocarbonâ€â„¢s are used in many car care products and perform many different and important functions. They are also used in many cleaning products as solvents to quickly emulsify oils, grease road tar and grime. They will not harm plastics, vinyl or rubber nor will they remove any important components like flex agents, plasticizers and etc, while it helps to clean and replace necessary oils to their surface.
b) UVR protection is not water-soluble and the use of petroleum distillates (Cyclo Paraffin) enables them to be included as an oil-in-water emulsion in wax, sealant, various plastics and rubber and vinyl dressings
Any product that contains a petroleum distillate in its formula must be labelled with the phrase "Contains petroleum distillates" regardless of the actual properties of the distillate used, the reason for this is labelling requirements is mandated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, a government agency.
Information source: EPA /Purdue University Study, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency website
JonM
~Hope this helps~
Bill D
Hooked For Life
Hmm..Cyclo Paraffin 
DETAILKING
New member
Most products are in fact petroleum based. They may or may not also contain water but the petroleum solvent is the mechanism of its functionality.
Petroleum additives are mostly VOC with low vapor pressures. This means they evaporate quickly. The oily film you are experiencing is most likely the addition of an oil (mineral, silicone) for shine. This has nothing to do with the petroleum distillates that are added to the formula and used as the carrier.
If a product was water based (water is the solvent used as the carrier), those slimy oils would still be present as they are probably added to increase gloss, waterbeading, and slickness.
Petroleum additives are mostly VOC with low vapor pressures. This means they evaporate quickly. The oily film you are experiencing is most likely the addition of an oil (mineral, silicone) for shine. This has nothing to do with the petroleum distillates that are added to the formula and used as the carrier.
If a product was water based (water is the solvent used as the carrier), those slimy oils would still be present as they are probably added to increase gloss, waterbeading, and slickness.
Burlyq said:
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Burlyq said:
"...my favorite sealant, cleaner, and topper have petroleum distalates, but it's not petroleum based, ..."
I'm confused, a petroleum distillate that's not petroleum based?
JonM
forrest@mothers
Serious no BS kinda guy
Personally, I don't see what the big issue is here.
Petroleum Distallates are merely a delivery method for the protective components of your product. They help it spread, and then flash away so it can be buffed off. They're more efficient (faster) than water based products at flashing away (evaporating), so (particularly at lower temperatures) they make your product easy to use.
Petroleum Distallates are merely a delivery method for the protective components of your product. They help it spread, and then flash away so it can be buffed off. They're more efficient (faster) than water based products at flashing away (evaporating), so (particularly at lower temperatures) they make your product easy to use.
So if I understand this correctly, if something has petroleum distillates, it's also petroleum based?
Forrest, I hope your not referring to my original question on this topic. I agree that petroleum distillates are not an issue. I'm just trying to understand what petroleum based means.
Forrest, I hope your not referring to my original question on this topic. I agree that petroleum distillates are not an issue. I'm just trying to understand what petroleum based means.
DETAILKING
New member
One other point is the type of solvent used and does it strip the previous coat or not.
imported_Burlyq
New member
III said:
Definelty not.
forrest said:
I agree with your petroleum analogy but I don't think there is a big issue though just a difference in opinion or misunderstanding. The last time this conversation came up I called the manufactorer of a product and he set me straight. Every car care product contains petroleum but they are not considered petroleum based. The petroleum solvents are immulsified in the protective ingedients in a water base. Now carnuba's are a diiferent beast but this apply's to many of the high grade sealants. There are some petroleum based products that do not flash away and use oil to enhance shine (surface stays oily) and all I can say is that I don't prefer those in my sealant choice. I have two bottles of such a product that I'm trying to give away, but when I think about it I cannot even in good conscience give it to a friend.
The bigger question is how can you prove if it is or isn't going to harm your paint. There's a very real possibilty that even the petroleum based products use something to counteract any possible negative drying effects. But if the product leaves the surface oily, other consideration like dust attraction apply. I'm not sure if we can prove this w/o long term studies so lets just say put whatever product on your car floats your boat. For those of you that are worried about the possibilities of a petroleum based product drying you paint (long term) like me, I'd seal with a water based sealant, do some research there are many. Once I have a water based sealant as my skin (first coat touching my paint) I don't mind using a petroleum based product on top, oh no I'm taking heat for that one.
forrest@mothers
Serious no BS kinda guy
III said:
III - I'm not referring to your question at all. I just don't understand why it's a big deal whether or not a product has petroleum in it. Technically, any non-carnauba based product is "petroleum based", and any carnauba based product has petroleum in it, so in a literal sense basically all products are petroleum based.
I read some of the above as implying petroleum is a bad thing. Maybe I'm just reading too much into some of the comments.
forrest said:
Because as burlq has pointed out some or all petroleum based products leave the surface oily and might dry out your paint in the long haul. Burlq is not the first person that I have heard this from.
This also confuses me becasue I have used vanilla moose, which is supposed to be petroleum based and I haven't noticed my paint being oily.