understanding petroleum based products

I don't think "-based" is a definitive term. In one sense, acrylic (Klasse!) is derived from petroleum, so it could be called petroleum-based. But in another sense, the vehicle or solvent that carries your active ingredient (eg, acrylic or carnauba) may be water; or a volatile organic compound derived from petroleum; or usually, a mixture of both. So in virtually every case, the products contain petroleum distillates, and thus are "petroleum-based".



The big issue is, does the solvent/vehicle for one product dissolve the previous layer of product on your car? Unfortunately, "petroleum-based-ness" has nothing to contribute on that question.
 
Axle grease is a petroleum based product, any of the various brands of Bug and Tar removers is also a petroleum based product. I certainly wouldn't smear axle grease on my paint because it would leave it greasy. I do use Bug and Tar Removers because the petroleum based solvents in these products completely evaporate.



As for drying the paint, there is nothing there to dry. Someone is confounding car care products with face care products.
 
When you have your suit dry cleaned they use a petroleum based product to clean your suit . How many clothes that you pick up from the dry cleaner come back oily?
 
I'm not aware of any product formulated for use on automotive paint that will dry the paint out. I think that's an urban myth.



But, using a product not designed/formulated for use on automotive paint may damage the paint.



But, that's not the product's fault - it's the user's fault.



Edit - anyone have the name of an automotive appearance product that, when used according to directions, dries the paint out or damages it in any way?
 
TOGWT said:
"...my favorite sealant, cleaner, and topper have petroleum distalates, but it's not petroleum based, ..."



I'm confused, a petroleum distillate that's not petroleum based?



JonM
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A petroleum distallate product called solvents can be added to any base, for an example lets say an acrylic base like klasse, when you put the acrylic/solvent on the car, the solvent does it's job and evaporates leaving the acrylic protection. Now the surface feels slick but not oily. Now someone says acrylic is a petroleum derivative, and maybe that's right I'm not sure. But it also maybe a derrivitive that good chemists have figured out how to make beneficial to paint protection. So I use klasse and like it, so it's possible I'm using a petroleum based product and didn't know it until today, but I still like it anyway, because it doesn't leave my car oily.

To be honest I got my information from different people and not all of them agreed on what was what. I did speak to one manufactorer who had a water based product who gave me some information, but I aint no expert. All I know is I have tried two products that leave the surface of my car oily and I was very dissappointed.
 
Trying to analyze a product solely based on the label disclaimer that it contains petroleum distillates is fruitless. The ingredient which requires the label could be one of dozens of things which have radically different behaviors.



If you want to make those types of analyses, you really need the MSDS, but even that can be evasive or inconclusive due to exceptions which allow manufacturers to not disclose proprietary formulations.
 
I think the â€ËœPetroleum distillates are harmfulâ€â„¢ myth stems from the use of products that contain silicones (which has a misplaced reputation of being 'bad') and as some of them contain PD they must be harmful too



Silicone:

Silicones are primarily used to modify or improve certain characteristics; they are sometimes added as a lubricant to provide spread ability thereby making a product easier to apply.



The automotive industry uses silicones as component parts in its plastic, vinyl, rubber, paints, fibreglass as well as in polishes and waxes. Silicone oils provide an excellent lubricant that when used as a carrier system in polishes that makes them easier to apply and remove. When used in paints and other coatings it ensures an even flow through a spray nozzle ensuring an even product distribution.



The low surface tension of some silicones improves automotive cleaning products by increasing the â€Ëœwettingâ€â„¢ ability by providing a much better surface contact for abrasive or solvent type cleaners and polishes.



The newer amino functional silicones when added to products create a physical bond with the surface; this boding provides better product durability than products that rely only on surface tension for bonding.



Silicone oils are inherently water repellent so the wonâ€â„¢t allow water to compromise the paint surface providing better durability and protection. Because of silicones ability to refract light it also provides a â€Ëœbrighterâ€â„¢ shine. The myth that silicone is bad is just that, a myth, and like most myths there is a little truth in it. Silicone are basically inert, it's what's added to them that makes them bad.



JonM
 
Pondscum said:
Trying to analyze a product solely based on the label disclaimer that it contains petroleum distillates is fruitless. The ingredient which requires the label could be one of dozens of things which have radically different behaviors.



If you want to make those types of analyses, you really need the MSDS, but even that can be evasive or inconclusive due to exceptions which allow manufacturers to not disclose proprietary formulations.
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Totally agree..



Any product that contains a petroleum distillate in its formula must be labelled with the phrase "Contains petroleum distillates" regardless of the actual properties of the distillate used, the reason for this is labelling requirements is mandated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, a government agency.



JonM
 
TOGWT said:
I think the â€ËœPetroleum distillates are harmfulâ€â„¢ myth stems from the use of products that contain silicones (which has a misplaced reputation of being 'bad') and as some of them contain PD they must be harmful too



Silicone:

...
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Dimethyl silicone is one "bad" silicone which should not be used on Rubber/Vinyl/Plastic because it migrates to and interferes with the plasticizers in those materials. I think this is the bad rap which led people to believe all silicones were bad regardless of which ones they were or what they were used on. There are lots of other silicone compounds that work very well in dozens of automotive applications, including Rubber/Vinyl/Plastic protectant products.
 
Pondscum said:
Dimethyl silicone is one "bad" silicone which should not be used on Rubber/Vinyl/Plastic because it migrates to and interferes with the plasticizers in those materials. I think this is the bad rap which led people to believe all silicones were bad regardless of which ones they were or what they were used on. There are lots of other silicone compounds that work very well in dozens of automotive applications, including Rubber/Vinyl/Plastic protectant products.
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:xyxthumbs



Silicone:



The Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is water based, amino functional polymer that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties.

Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products.



Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no petroleum), and are completely inert. The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane



The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbons (petroleum ) distillates, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what gives tyres their colour) they are often mislabelled as modem /synthetic polymers by manufactures.



The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated.



All this causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.



For a Few Dollars More: Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe and useful silicone products. In conclusion, to group all silicones into one category and label them harmful, environmentally unsound or dangerous is both unscientific and without foundation.



JonM
 
TOGWT said:
:xyxthumbs



Silicone:



The Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is water based, amino functional polymer that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties.

Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products.
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PDMS is also used for silicone breast implants. I figure if it's good enough for that, it's good enough to use on my tires and plastic trim.
 
Pondscum said:
PDMS is also used for silicone breast implants. I figure if it's good enough for that, it's good enough to use on my tires and plastic trim.
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Probably be great for headlights.
kdubb.gif
 
Here's an example of a high quality water based sealant, and of course Zaino is probably the most known water based sealant.



http://www.autogeek.net/wg5500.html



Here's what is says about wolfgang sealant:



"The difference lies in the paint-friendly, water-based formula. Rather than rely on the usual synthetic solvents found in most sealants, weâ€â„¢ve built Deep Gloss Paint Sealant on an oil-in-water emulsion with high-tech âہ“super polymers.â€Â� "......."The emulsion does not include any of the harsh VOC solvents found in most polymer products. Because Deep Gloss Paint Sealant is mild and water-based, you can apply multiple layers to deepen the shine without compromising your paint or clear coat. Thanks to modern science, Wolfgang products are formulated to be non-toxic and surface-friendly, and, even with repeated usage, will never dry or weaken the paint.""Wolfgang products are formulated to be non-toxic and surface-friendly, and, even with repeated usage, will never dry or weaken the paint.""



Does anyone know of a list of water based sealants for those of us that prefer them? I was also wondering if Autoglym Extra Gloss Protection was water based. And klasse AIO?
 
Burlyq said:
I was also wondering if Autoglym Extra Gloss Protection was water based. And klasse AIO?
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Klasse AIO and SG are water based. They both use an acrylic as their sealant and the acrylic they use is water based. Acrylics are always water based. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but certainly not for sealant/wax type products.
 
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