This is starting to get frustrating. I'm a newbie to the PC, but I didn't think I'd come across this many problems. BOTH times I have used it, the backing has come unglued on two orange pads and had minimal results with SSR 2.5. I've tried centering the pad the best that I can, moving slowly (1 second per inch), working the polish to what I believe to be finished, and all the while trying to apply a little pressure while doing so. Should I try a different polish or pads? I know the pads are not at fault because everyone else uses them with no problems...maybe I'm applying TOO much pressure? Each time I've used it the pad seems to wobble a little....is this uneven pressure, uncentered pad, or is this normal? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Ugh, 2nd time using a PC and still no luck...
- Thread starter natebood
- Start date
Maybe a pic or two of the pads would help. What kind of pads are they (manufacturer, etc)? Also some pictures of the paint you're working on would help. Also make sure you're actually putting enough oomph into it- PC's take speed 6 and a bit of pressure to get good results. It may take more than one pass too (it often does). Eyeballing centering the pad usually does a good enough job, so I don't think that's the problem.
Some pictures of the problem pads and the paint you're working on would really help so we know what we're looking at.
Edit: Also, how much polish are you using on the pad? If the pad has too much polish, that can cause problems for the pad.
Some pictures of the problem pads and the paint you're working on would really help so we know what we're looking at.
Edit: Also, how much polish are you using on the pad? If the pad has too much polish, that can cause problems for the pad.
Regarding the pads...they should be replaced by the manufacturer, as the backing material should not come off.
And I'm sure you aren"t applying too much pressure.
If you aren't getting the results you were hoping for, the swirls or defects are probably deeper than you think. But go at it a couple times and you should eventually get it under control.
And I'm sure you aren"t applying too much pressure.
If you aren't getting the results you were hoping for, the swirls or defects are probably deeper than you think. But go at it a couple times and you should eventually get it under control.
I'm using the Propel pads. I forgot to mention that the previous pad failed because of the 6" BP came in contact with the pad, so I switched to a 5". Here's a few pics:
I "primed" the pad with FK 425 and then used as X of SSR 2.5. After that, I used about 4 dime sized blobs on the pad. I've used the pads on a black Pontiac Sunfire and a '98 Grand Cherokee (no pics because it's already night time). I was able to see some results on the Sunfire after a few passes, but it didn't seem like it did anything for the Jeep (Granted the Jeep is in pretty bad shape to begin with, lots of bird and water etchings).
I'll eventually talk to Patrick about this, but being the holiday weekend, he'll be away. So I figured I throw it out at you guys to see if I'm doing somethign wrong.
I "primed" the pad with FK 425 and then used as X of SSR 2.5. After that, I used about 4 dime sized blobs on the pad. I've used the pads on a black Pontiac Sunfire and a '98 Grand Cherokee (no pics because it's already night time). I was able to see some results on the Sunfire after a few passes, but it didn't seem like it did anything for the Jeep (Granted the Jeep is in pretty bad shape to begin with, lots of bird and water etchings).
I'll eventually talk to Patrick about this, but being the holiday weekend, he'll be away. So I figured I throw it out at you guys to see if I'm doing somethign wrong.
I don't think there is anything you can do wrong that will cause this problem...just faulty. I have some of the orange propel IIs, along with about 30 other green, yellow, blue, and whites. I have never had a problem. If you get a replacement pad, I'm sure it won't happen again, and once you do, you can go back to the 6" without problem.
Envious Eric
New member
you mean I should send back the 6 pads that the vleco came off my pads and I should get them replaced.....sweet!!!!! I thought it was my fault or something....I'm stoked now!
RAG said:
RAG,
Thanks for your input...I was hoping it wasn't something I'd done wrong because I've spent countless hours here reading on how to properly use the PC and thought I had it down. I'll talk to Patrick Tues, but either way it'll probably be a while before I could even get a replacement as he is out of the Orange P1's and P2's. Maybe when the time comes I could just pay the difference to get the Orange P2 as I'm more comfortable with their backing material.
Toyotaguy,
Are all those pads Propels?
wannafbody
wannafbody
work the PC slow and go over the panel multiple times
SayNoToPistons
New member
the first 2 times i used the PC with LC cutting and durastrand pads and ssr 2.5 i could hardly elimate swirls... so Klnyc told me to apply pressure and switch from speed 4 to speed 5-6 and go slowly... hmm.. guess what.. it worked!
ronmart
New member
natebood said:I'm using the Propel pads. I forgot to mention that the previous pad failed because of the 6" BP came in contact with the pad, so I switched to a 5". Here's a few pics:
I "primed" the pad with FK 425 and then used as X of SSR 2.5. After that, I used about 4 dime sized blobs on the pad. I've used the pads on a black Pontiac Sunfire and a '98 Grand Cherokee (no pics because it's already night time). I was able to see some results on the Sunfire after a few passes, but it didn't seem like it did anything for the Jeep (Granted the Jeep is in pretty bad shape to begin with, lots of bird and water etchings).
I'll eventually talk to Patrick about this, but being the holiday weekend, he'll be away. So I figured I throw it out at you guys to see if I'm doing somethign wrong.
Yeah, return those pads and get some from Griots Garage as I've soaked mine in water all day and never had them losen up even a bit. NOTE: Make sure you aren't putting too much polish on the pads as that will cause them not to move freely and can cause them to fly off, however it is clear from your pictures that you have defective pads.
Accumulator
Well-known member
ronmart said:
Griot's pads wear like iron, I've hardly ever worn one out.
Their red wax pads simply last forever.
But their orange pads are pretty mild, despite how hard they feel. Many products, even some mild ones, would benefit from a more aggressive pad. I'm all for polishing pads that don't contribute any cut of their own (actually, it's what I prefer), but the Griot's ones sometimes make products act *too* mild for me. Heh heh, using Griot's Machine Polishes with a Cyclo and Cyclo brand pads works a lot better for me than using them with Griot's pads on a PC
Nobuff2tuff
New member
I've experienced that type of delamination before using the Propel 1 and even a yellow Propel 2.
In the case of the Propel 1, they were the green ones.
Talk to Patrick is all I can suggest.
In the case of the Propel 1, they were the green ones.
Talk to Patrick is all I can suggest.
ronmart
New member
Accumulator said:Griot's pads wear like iron, I've hardly ever worn one out.
Their red wax pads simply last forever.
But their orange pads are pretty mild, despite how hard they feel. Many products, even some mild ones, would benefit from a more aggressive pad. I'm all for polishing pads that don't contribute any cut of their own (actually, it's what I prefer), but the Griot's ones sometimes make products act *too* mild for me. Heh heh, using Griot's Machine Polishes with a Cyclo and Cyclo brand pads works a lot better for me than using them with Griot's pads on a PC
You must have an American or Japanese car!
Those require a lot more abrasiveness. If you have a German car (excluding pre-2005 Mercedes which have diamond clear coat), then Griots is perfect.
I even put my Griots pads in the washing machine and they are fine. I agree that the orange pads seem really hard, but once they are seasoned for use with polish they soften up quite a bit.
imported_Chris223
New member
I had no idea Griots made pads. Will their 6" red pad work ok with the 6" backing plate I have from my Sonus SFX pad kit on my PC 7336? I'm a PC newb myself, haven't used it yet... I'm kinda nervous.
cwcad
New Normal
I sure hope that you can work something out with Patrick. Have had similar problems with the Propel 1 pads. I fugured that that they were old and had been washed a multitude of times. Also, when ever I did have a problem that was similar to your pictures it was(at least I believe it was) because I was much to forceful with the pad. I thought that it was excessive heat build up(I do mean excessive) that caused the demise of my two orange pads.
Once I changed to the Propel 2 pads, that particular problem has never surfaced again. NO mat ter how much pressure has been applied.
Once I changed to the Propel 2 pads, that particular problem has never surfaced again. NO mat ter how much pressure has been applied.
Accumulator
Well-known member
ronmart said:You must have an American or Japanese car!
If you have a German car (excluding pre-2005 Mercedes which have diamond clear coat), then Griots is perfect..
Two of our cars are Audis, and the clear on those is way too hard for mild approaches like the GG's pad
It'd be OK for a final buff on them with something really mild, but I prefer to use the Cyclo for that. I thought the GG's were a bit mild for '86-'87 Benzes I used to have too :nixweiss Can't remember if I've used them on a BMW, but maybe I'll try them on my M3 some time.Actually, I was thinking about how mild the GG's pads are on my old Jag, which has *very* soft single-stage! I was getting nowhere with the Griot's orange and Machine Polish #2, then I tried it with the Cyclo and it worked great! Heh heh, sounds like you and I are working on some mighty different types of paint, or otherwise just having different experiences with those pads.
People oughta try them for themselves, if only because of how durable they are. There are worse things than finding a polishing pad is a bit too mild.
Chris223- Yeah, the 6" pad works fine with every backing plate I've tried it with. They up-sized their pads a few years ago so there's a little comfort margin with regard to the diameter.
Go ahead and try that PC out! The only conceivable problem I can think of is light hazing if you use an aggressive product and don't let it break down completely. Even stuff like that is only a problem if you don't go about things in a sensible way (do one panel and inspect it in different lighting to see how things are going before you do the whole car). It's *FAR* more likely that you'll discover that the PC's too mild for what you want to accomplish, at least with the first combo you try. It really is nothing more than a "fast hand that doesn't get tired".
Get some mild polish and some wax, some polishing and finishing pads, and you'll see what I mean
A friend of mine who usually lets her husband do her Lexus got tired of waiting for him to do it (I'd lent him my older PC for the job). She did her RX330 with the PC, GG's orange polishing pad, and 1Z MetallicPolishWax. First time she'd ever touched the PC, no coaching from me or anybody else, just her common sense. Turned out fine by her standards (I would've gotten more aggressive on the marring ). She then topped the MP with Meg's #16 using the PC and GG's red pad, putting the #16 on the pad with a butter knife. Again, no coaching, though she remembered that I'm always saying to put it on thin. Turned out great. Doing gentle work by PC is pretty much a no-brainer.
ronmart
New member
Chris223 said:
Yes, and the Griots pads are made to be idiot proof. You can use the orange pad and lean on them in one spot without fear of doing any damage. In fact, they did that while I was at Griots and sat their and talked to me for 5 minutes with the orbital in the same spot. I almost had a cow, but when they stopped talking I said something and they let me feel the pad and the spot - both cool to the touch. Of course they were using their polisher, but you should be plenty safe with these pads.
I would ignore the advice to use harsher pads. It simply isn't necessary nor worth it.
Accumulator
Well-known member
ronmart said:
Unnecessary *if* you can do the work with a milder pad. But necessary if you can't
ronmart
New member
Accumulator said:Unnecessary *if* you can do the work with a milder pad. But necessary if you can't
Yes, perhaps i should qualify and say "for experienced detailers only". I don't think that newbies should do it as they'll freak after they see what happens to their paint after they use a more harsh pad with a more abrasive polish.
I was honing in on the "I'm kinda nervous." comment. :bigups
Accumulator
Well-known member
ronmart- Hope I didn't sound all :argue or anything...I'm all for people ramping up slowly when it comes to getting aggressive on their paint.
*SO* many people get in over their heads and end up with new problems that are worse than "just rounding over their marring". Only problem with erring on the side of caution is that the results are only so-so, and that's not the end of the world.
I guess I'm just sorta critical of the GG's stuff as it never really did much of any correction for me compared to other approaches that I also found easier. But the last time I needed something *super* mild for some unusualy soft paint, the Machine Polish #3 on a GG's orange did the trick. Makes me wonder how their new Machine Polish #4 would compare to stuff like Menzerna FPII...
*SO* many people get in over their heads and end up with new problems that are worse than "just rounding over their marring". Only problem with erring on the side of caution is that the results are only so-so, and that's not the end of the world.
I guess I'm just sorta critical of the GG's stuff as it never really did much of any correction for me compared to other approaches that I also found easier. But the last time I needed something *super* mild for some unusualy soft paint, the Machine Polish #3 on a GG's orange did the trick. Makes me wonder how their new Machine Polish #4 would compare to stuff like Menzerna FPII...