Tie Browning

Email me at [email protected] with your fax number and I will fax you what we have, several pages.

Most of the terms used are marketing terms, as I pointed out, and your research to this point is on the money.(I won't take the time to go and post all of it, but you seem to be good at it so will let you)

Another way of describing the sealant coating are they are polymer/copolymers with amnio functional resins.

This has been the industry standard of definition for automotive paint sealants for at least 15 years that I have dealt with them in manufacturering and marketing.

It will end up being as the "silicone" issue.

Just try and explain the difference of a silicone vs a siloxane or a polydimethalsiloxane from a polyamniosiloxane. And get those who do not work with them daily to understand. Pretty deep chemistry, not all will be able to put it to work for them.

Then we can move onto the organic waxes vs the polyethelene waxes and what makes one better than the other.

You got more patience than I.

:eek:
 
I want to give it some thought and research, but HOPEFULLY I can have something useful posted in a day or two...



And patience isn't it, curiousity drives one to learn!
 
I will fax not only that, but the patent for clay, not that it means much as a patent, but would let you explain the functionality of clay.



Got it laying in my car seat, was going to put some of it up, but just don't relish the flames that go with it.



:bounce
 
I'll be waiting for it tomorrow...if u can get it to me by 3 est then i'll recieve it that day. I tell you what though...your last request will be challangeing to say the least...What my preliminary research shows that the differences are hard to explain and I'm not sure of the relavance, but perservere I will and I'll keep looking into it...but if u have any docs. on that subject you can fax them to me as well...thanks.
 
This might sound bad, but I haven't even finished college yet. I am in a family business, and my father has done tremendous amounts of research on polymers. Since we work with them every day I have had to learn my share...I have been into it for about 2 years, he has been doing it for 30. When I ask him questions he talks way above my head. I've tried to keep it simple, but if u r unsure about somthing, keep the ?'s coming. But it's weird, everyone is paying $$$ for this product and it works pretty damn well, but no one know exactly how to apply it...the answers are coming...I guess that patience thing is useful now, huh Ron...
 
bkman4, your definititon of a polymer consisting of up to millions of repeated linked units is correct. The individual units you mentioned are in fact the monomers. Polymers are created through the polymerization of monomers with other monomers and/or polymers. MMA (methyl methacrylate) for example is a monomer, most acrylic products begin with this monomer. Acrylics are made by free radical or redox polymerization. Acrylics are readily polymerized and copolymerized by bulk, suspension, emulsion and solution processes. PMMA, ABS and SAN are just a few of the resultant polymers. The creation of these polymers through polymerization requires a cure time. But as I noted earlier, changing a polymer from a liquid to solid does not require a cure time; you still end up with the same polymer.



I originally thought that perhaps SG was a monomer (MMA) that once applied to the car was somehow polymerized into an acrylic polymer (PMMA). I contacted representatives from companies specializing in acrylic monomers and polymers and they said that a catalyst would be required for the polymerization to occur and they highly doubted this occurred with SG.
 
PMMA is the plastic I work with, now I dont' understand it's properties as well as some, but I know enough for my purpouses...that is an interesting point...I'm not sure that PMMA could be dissolved in such a fashion, but if so then it would already be cured and would just need drying time. If this all is true then there would still need to be a drying (curing) time to let all of the solvent evaporate before a second layer could be applied. I am going to hit the books and bounce this off of my dad...we'll see...thanks to all for your help.

The one thing that I'm ...<strong class='bbc'>not sure[/b] you're correct on waxman is what you said about a solid to a liquid. When I cure PMMA it starts out as a solid and is (dissolved) mixed with a monomer, and then heated under pressure. ...When we start to cure PMMA it is a semi-viscous liquid. Extreme heat cycles and tons of pressure are applied for long periods of time. Now if left sit, the liquid will start and exothermic reaction and cure itself...now when it does this the cure is bad, cloudy and weak. So to dissolve PMMA sounds like a dicey proposistion at best, and to get it to be a usefull sealant after a solvent evaporates would sound even more improbable. Now if there was no solvent it would still be solid, and if there was a solvent that could do it, then the mix wouldn't really be PMMA. Ahhhh this is hurting my head...more work...
 
These polymer coatings used for paint protection are much different than say a "bottle" or "part", even though of polymer chemistry construction.



There is a "coating" produced by these sort of products which, as it goes through the curing process, IE, release/evaporation of the carrier (solvent/water) creates a micro thin layer over the paint substrate and cationaicly bonds to the surface. (one of the reasons it is not a good idea to have used a product for polishing that contains any oils which may detire this bonding process.)



Most product lines of quality are designed to be used as a "system" in order to assure the ability of the polymers to cure and bond.









:bounce
 
Man, my head hurts. Wasn't the original question whether it was best to allow Klassse to "cure" longer before adding additional coats or laying with wax?



What was the answer to that question anyway?
 
and bonded to the steel at very high temperatures...around 700 °F. This is why it is useless as an additive in auto sealants.
 
applying additional coats or else it can't layer. The solvents will just soften up the sealant and you will only accomplish a reapplication. KLASSE strips KLASSE if you will...at least until it is fully cured...and who knows how long that is....SNAKE? Are you EVER going to post that information you promised, when you talked to BOB?!
 
per DuPont tech bulletin XG-50 issued in the early 80's, this is a shortened, but understandable version of the bulletin



The resin in liquid form must be applied to the surface with a minimum application thickness of 2 mil wet.



The entire part must then be heated to 250 F to release the carrier solvents. This temperature must be maintained for a minimum of 5 to 10 minutes.



Once the solvents have been evaporated from the Teflon resin, the heat is to be increased to 640 F and maintained for 30 to 45 minutes in order to create "sintering" of the Teflon material.



Like to see that done to a car??



Talk about having a "hot" car, it would be on "fire".





:bounce
 
It seems to be that you are saying that it would be best to let the AIO cure for a week to insure complete cross linking ?



I'm not asking for your opinion on Klasse, just your basic experience with polymers. ( I hesitate to think what happens to the equation if it rains on my car during the seven days).



Bob
 
No, you don't have to wait a week. We were just discussing how, dependant upon the resins and other factors that normal "full" cure takes about a week, but not to worry, we have our warrantied sealant running around on cars that didn't get but 24 hours and no claims.



There are too many variables to ascertain just how much "cure" one gets in 24 hours, due to humidity, porosity of the paint, temperature, any product applied be for application, etc, etc.



You are fine putting it on, letting it set and if it gets rain on it in a day or so, you still have plenty of protection.



Just don't put it on and then wash the vehicle right away.



OK??



:up
 
I'm not sure crosslinking would even take a week...If Klasse really cures, the crosslinking might end in 24 hrs. and then the solvent would take the rest of a week to evaporate for maximum hardness. And rain might not even effect the evaporation after the crosslinking...for instance we cure PMMA in water baths...granted they are in clamps that pressurize and probably keep all the water out, but it really might not mater.
 
Want to see a fresh clear go bad, just flush it with water within 24 hours of application.



That is why many clears that have been applied by a bodyshop go bad. They "wet sanded" them before a 24 hour cure had taken place. This flushing stops the crosslinking of the resin system.



The solvents do continue to evaporate for sometime, but the majority are gone in 24 hours.



As the final small percentage evaporates the final and maximum curing takes place.



This may be as little as 10% or as high as 20% additional curing.



Each who has applied a quality polymer/acrylic sealant has surely noticed how it gains in it's gloss factor a day or so after the inital wipeoff.





:bounce
 
Without anymore speculation...wouldn't you say you had it right all along...24hrs...keep dry, reapply in a week, keeping it dry the whole week if possible. All of this thread seems to be coming to the same conclusion that was already there...at least we know it was the right one.:up
 
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