something real bad about 3M's 5937

C

chip douglas

New member
Has anyone ever had problem with 3M's 5937 machine glaze, which is a swirl remover ? Why am I asking ? Cause on my single stage red repaint car, it introduced on heck of a lot of buffer swirls, it's beyond awful, tons and tons and tons of buffer scratches. Yesterday it looked fine under the bright sun and at night under mercury halide light, but I washed it this evening and it took all the fillers out. The damn 3M' product says on the label * non filling* my foot yeah !



Sorry if I sound a bit annoyed, it's not directed towards anyone, it's just in so despaired, it's beyond words. By the way, I've used a very soft finishing pad with the 3M.





I'm so annoyed it's beyond what you may think, after all the work I've put in it.



Sorry for the rant, I'm sure some of you will understand.





P.S. #82 left some very fine micro marring, so i thought 3M's 5937 machine glaze would do the trick but it didn't .





Could it be the paint ?? It's a repaint.
 
Could be, I wiped with IPA mix and when I used the PI III MG , it indeed did not fill :nixweiss



On SS paint/repaint could behave much differently. I bet Accumulator can provide more insight
 
I too wiped it with the IPA mix, and it appeared fine....that was yesterday night, then today I washed it again after diner, and later on went to the spot under a street lamp, andthere were a LOT of buffer scratches, and it's not the pad as it is ever so soft (Meg's finishing pad).
 
I'm more than interested too. On clearcoat I'm probably sure the5937 would be fine, but on SS, not too sure, and now I pay the price.



But as I said, I buffer the hood last evening, then washed it, then went under that street lamp where I always go to for inspecting my work, and there were nothing, it was flawless, and I even wiped it with IPA mix, and still it looked fine, but after I washed it earlier and then went to that street post again, all the swirls were there, and I can definately tell you the 5937 made it a LOT worse. :( :nixweiss
 
but I bet no one will really know why it happened. For crying out loud, it reads on the label of the 5937 : *swirl remover* and it also says :*non-filling*.
 
CHip, we're in the chat room now, if you come on in maybe someone here can brain storm with you a bit about this.
 
yeah but it is a machine glaze. I had to read teh label very carefully when i used the finishing glaze somewhere towards the bottom it says contains carnuba wax, well i didnt think it would contain carnuba since its supposed to be a glaze
 
Yes but glaze and polish are two very overlapping terms. A glaze can really be a polish, and a polish can really be a glaze...



Like Meg's #80 is Speed Glaze, but its really a polish, right?
 
what I find complicated from forums such as this one, is : some people think a such or such stuff got rid of swirls, but in fact many times they only hide them.....it's highly misleading I say.
 
Bill D said:
Could be, I wiped with IPA mix and when I used the PI III MG , it indeed did not fill :nixweiss



On SS paint/repaint could behave much differently. I bet Accumulator can provide more insight
Click to expand...



Chip Douglas sure is having problems with this one! Wish I had a good solution...



Hmm...not sure what I can really contribute to this one :nixweiss I never noticed any filling from the 05937 either, nor have I heard that anyone else has. The ingredients list on my bottle does *not* list "wax". It doesn list various PDs and "clay" but I hesitate to assume that these are "fillers". They're certainly not anything that an alcohol wipe would *not* remove but a regular wash *would*.



I've never had a problem with it marring ss; I've used it on the *very* soft lacquer on the XJS and as long as I did everything properly (no contamination, *very* soft applicator/pad and my best MFs), it worked fine. I've followed it with Menzerna FP and other similar products and did not notice those products uncovering anything that'd been filled.



I think what happened here is wash-related. The finish was fine an alcohol wipe did not reveal any "concealed" marring. *Then it was washed* and the problem was visible. Washing won't remove fillers any better than the alcohol wipe, so I think what you're seeing is *fresh* marring from the wash/dry. Sorry if that sounds critical ("what, he doesn't think I can tell the diff between wash/dry marring and what I'm talking about" :mad: ) but just going by what was posted, it's the only explanation I can come up with.



If the finish was not protected with anything (but rather, just "bare" from the polishing with the 05937), on soft SS the washing/drying might've been enough to mar it.



In many cases, the motions of washing/drying can inflict marring that looks quite a bit like the motions of the PC.



This finish sure is giving you a lot of trouble! Between the 3M pads and the various products you've tried, I'd be pretty fed up.
 
I think Deanski's suggestion about too aggressive pads and/or maybe not wiping the product in the end while still a little wet is playing a big role in this situation. Chip, how did you make out?
 
I've used PIIIMG on SS and CC finishes.



No marring. No filling.

Just a perfectly polished surface.



I love this stuff...:xyxthumbs



Sorry to hear of your problems.
 
Accumulator : I admit this situation is so very confusing. I wish you were here to see what it looked like really. I'm not annoyed or anything, as I know you're trying to help. I've thought about hard water (mineral deposit) as possibly being the problem here, BUT given I've washed my car at my parents many times, and never witnessed what I've days ago, I'm a bit skeptip about the washing drying thing here, in fact it was air dryed, and yes I'm quite fed up :)



Bill,



I've spent the whole afternoon on the hood, first using Meg's finishing pad + #82, buffed one area twice and it didn't budge. Then I stepped up to #82 + polishing pad, same thing did it twice and it didn't even touch the marring. Next I moved up to Meg's polishing pad + #83 at 1750 rpm....that appeared to have improved it a lot, but some scratches remained, and I didn't have sufficient time ahead of me to finish it.





I don't know what is going on, but I suspect I got a REAL bad repaint. Again the paint is urethane, and the color red. In case 3M didn't fill, then the washing without the drying put in scratches so deep, even with #83 I'm having problems taking them out--that doesn't add up to me, that a mere wash could induce such scratches.



Accumulator: If you saw the marring.......imagine very tight scratches going in circle, all over the hood and all over the car in fact. On the back pillar (C pillar), it looks amazingly awful, there's not a spot that isn't covered with scratches, and I'm not exagerating at all, I'm telling you as it is, no more no less....take my word for it, I'm not one to blow things out of proportion. If I wasnt sure that the 3M 5937 induced the swirling, I would not so assertive about it, honestly. Again imagine, if a mere washing could induce such bad scratch, it would be a nightmare.



Very important point of mine : I've washed the car about 30 times over at my patents this summer, and I never had that much scratches on it afterwards, and I checked each and everytime under the same street lamp each night after washing. The only two times I did get the marring was earlier this summer when I used the 5937 with it's matching convoluted polishing pad, and then I thought it was the 3M pad that did it--I was wrong, it was actually the machine glaze not the pad that did it--at least I'Ve learned that.



If you got any more questions, don't hesitate, I don't mind at all, as I want to get to the bottom of this.



Later all
 
One more thing : It cannot be the pad that put in the swirling, as I'Ve used the same Meguiars's pad with #82,#83, and it didn't scratch aside from the little marring the polishing pad may leave, but it's nothing to freak about honestly. When I started buffing the 3M, Ieven used Meg's finishing pad which is very soft, and the first time I buffed, I wiped it and noticed lots of scratches already, but after couple of times, they were gone (hidden).



The above is yet another irrefutable argument, that is right after the first time I went over the surface with Meg's finishing pad (tan pad) + 3M's 5937 machine glaze, I noticed lots of scratches that weren't there before.



If anyone was here with me, I'm 100% positive you'd definately see the same thing I do, and wonder what could be wrong about it, as Im quite meticulous to always use clean MF, check the pad for contaminants of any kind, son on and so forth. The car wash I use is Meg's DEEP CRYSTAL. I also have Meg's 62 and it doesn't remove stuff on the paint as easy as deep crystal does. One more thing, I ALWAYS keep the pad flat.



Let,s get to the bottom of this as it is very important to me, it's now a personal issue, and I have to find what's wrong.
 
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