something real bad about 3M's 5937

Chip,



Very strange but my hands are tied to help you because I only have access to clear coat paint and only have one yellow Megs pad and one maroon pad.I use LC pads primarily. FWIW I'll try to squeeze it in and see how PI III MG performs for me via rotary on my m arron c c scrap fender. I used if before but will do it again. Please provide the speed and approx time you spent polishing. Maybe my using the Megs yellow pad will show me something like what you're seeing
 
Chip Douglas- OK, it does sound like you've narrowed it down to the 05937 (although I never underestimate the damage that can be done by washing :D ).



Something is definitely screwy with the situation. Maybe you got a bad bottle of 05937, maybe you have a truly (awfully, incredibly) bad repaint. But something is just "off", so don't be blaming your detailing efforts (I'm assuming you work the 05937 a long time and are generally meticulous in your detailing habits).



Think about it....scratches so severe that #83/polishing/rotary @ 1750 rpms can't completely fix it...that's some *serious* marring! Since the 05937 is *supposed to be* a very mild polish, what you're experiencing is, IMO real Twilight-Zone weird.



And if the paint scratches so easily, then why doesn't it *work* easily when you're abrading it :confused: You know, if the 05937 is so aggressively abrasive, then why doesn't the more aggressive DACP abrade away the damage? Or at least replace it with damage of its own.



Assuming that you do your work in a clean environment (no abrasive dust floating around), *I* would try a clean-slate approach before you get so fed up that you decide to find a new hobby ;) I would:



-Replace your pads [edit: I posted this before your last post]

-Replace your products with some SSR2.5 and some Menzerna IP and FP (or the PB's equivalents). That's stuff with no fillers that's been proven to work over and over

-Get a few new MF towels just for this job



Then redo it using the new stuff. And whenever you *do* get it marring free, I'd really get some durable LSP on there so you don't have to go through this again! Frustrating situations like this, where nothing seems to solve the problem, can sorta take the fun out of detailing.
 
Im experimenting more with Menzerna via rotary and I can see how so many find it to be quite a fine polish.
 
Bill,



I buffed the 5937 at 1750 RPM, and the time I spent polishing each section is hard for me to accurately state, as the 3M 5937 flashed quite rapidly, as opposed the Meg's #83.





---> After the first wash it was A ok, then that night I went under that light, and it looked fine, and even wiped the surface with IPA, and still it was fine. Then the next evening I washed it, and went there under that same light again, and then all of them were showing :scared
 
OK Chip,maybe I can try to replicate this. Only part of the fender will likely turn out as it constantly gets marred just rom use in practice and some of the marring is too deep for the mg. But I know the big spot rigth in the middle is a candidate for it. I'll try to replciate what you did even if its really apples to oranges.



By any chance, do you have access to a digicam, even a disposable one to show us what you're seeing?
 
Hey, maybe Accumulator,you, me ( Im really more of a rookie) could discus this live in the chat room?
 
Accumulator : *Twilight-Zone weird* LOL, you took the words right out of my mouth here ;)



I'll keep trying and will also order Menzerna's non-filling polish, as they got such a good rep. I already have 2 new pads, a polishing and finishing pad. All in all, I'm almost 100% postivie it's an awfully bad repaint that I have. Other car painters have seen it, and they told me this : *I'd never let a car out of the paintshop looking like this :eek: * Why they said that ? Because the car has extreme orange peel.
 
Bill D said:
Hey, maybe Accumulator,you, me ( Im really more of a rookie) could discus this live in the chat room?
Click to expand...



Nah, I never make the chats. Always doing stuff with Accumulatorette then.



I'm glad you're trying to help Chip Douglas with this....I'm fresh out of ideas so all I can think of is my sorta-standard response of "not struggling with products that don't work for you".
 
Let me know you guys, the chat room is always open, doesnt have to be Mon and Wed 9:30 eastern, sometimes live interaction is more effective
 
Yep thank you Bill for trying to help out here, I appreciate it.



Thank you Accumulator as well. I can easily understand why you're fresh out of idea :).....likewise hehe.
 
Just went outside as the sun is still shinning on the hood, and the #83 improve the situation, but not that much. As Accumulator said : why is it so easy to marr, and so hard to remove ? it eludes me.
 
Bill D said:
Let me know you guys, the chat room is always open, doesnt have to be Mon and Wed 9:30 eastern, sometimes live interaction is more effective
Click to expand...



I'm in there now if you'd like to talk instantly
 
Bill D said:
Let me know you guys, the chat room is always open, doesnt have to be Mon and Wed 9:30 eastern...
Click to expand...



Yeah, that occurred to me later :o when I was out with the dogs...sorry I wasn't of more help.
 
Hi all,



well, I feel somewhat bad, as I've found out today it was the mitt that scratched my paint that bad just like Accumulator suggested :o



It appears it wasn't the PI III machine glaze which scrathed that bad. To me too, it made no sense that the PI III could introduce scratches in the finish, given it's formulated to actually remove swirls. what I did was, I washed, rinsed, use the PI III on a section of the hood, but when I washed, I made sure to only use up and down motions, to see whether the new scratches would only be according to that washing pattern..........guess what ? They were ! Then I washed once more using that damn mitt, and that time, I used left to right motions, and when I rinsed, I saw the plenty left to right scrathes, as well as those up and down previously introduced.



So to all that have tried to help me, I apologize in a way, for having mislead some into thinking the PI III could put scratches in the finish as I thought it did.



Accumulator : you were right on the money, when you thought the washing could the source of my scratches :o



I felt I have to fair and tell you about it.



Thanks again for your help Bill, as good knows you also tried to help out :)



Later
 
Chip,



What mitts are you washing with? Sounds like they should be trashed pronto! Accumulator is the MASTER of meticulous washing. His non marring washing technique is by far the best ever I've ever read. In fact, I challenge any one considered world renown for washing cars to match it. That's how strongly I feel about it. Sure, it my not be too practical for a brief clean up and sure does take some time to get used to, I am still, but it is without question of the highest standard. Print that sucker out and frame it on the wall!



Good luck!





http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35232&highlight=non+marring
 
Bill,



the one mitt I had left was synthetic wool, which I thought couldn't scratch that BAD, but it did. Fortunately, the PI III took care of it all.....phew :o You bet I'll trash it !!



I'll read and print Accumulator's washing technique, right now.
 
Chip Douglas- I'm glad to hear you found the source of your marring was simply the mitt! It's always best to find an easily-corrected cause when dealing with weird problems. You did a good job of limiting/isolating the variables and determining what was going on :xyxthumbs



Really something, the way a *wash mitt* can eat all those hours of your life, huh? Not to mention all the frustration!



Bill D- Heh heh, OK, stop with all the :bow stuff already :D ;)



But yeah, I always :nixweiss about why *gentle* washing doesn't get as much attention as *removing wash-induced marring* seems to get. Not marring the vehicle every time you wash it seems like the most basic thing....
 
Accumulator : frustrating hehe you're telling me :D Honestly I had no idea a wash mitt could do that much damage so to say. Now that I've learned it the hard way, I'll go to bed a more knowledgeable guy heheh.



Moral of the story : they don't call *detailling* for nothing :D
 
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