Review: BlackFire Wet Diamond

[imported_firebird]

Ok Cee Dog, thanks for 'splainin'. Glad you clayed. I understand now if you didn't want to remove the deeper scratches. Post pics and another review on BFWD once you do your Sky.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[CEE DOG]

You got it Firebird. Looking forward to it :smile:

 

[imported_akimel]

Thank you sir. I allowed it to set up until I finished application. Then I went back and buffed off starting at the beginning. I'm guessing about 25-35 minutes maybe.

The reason I asked is that there is an ongoing, albeit always friendly, debate on the optimal way to apply BFWD. The three options were outlined by Todd a while back:

[1]Haze... If you choose to let it dry to haze completely make sure to give it 30 to 45 minutes. This is not how the product was designed to work but it will. The touchy area is that once you have let it start to haze, it must haze completely or you might get very light 'shadows' or streaking in the paint.

[2]Apply it wet and remove... This has become my favorite method. Apply it to a 'section' (roughly about 1/4 of the car) then remove immediately. Like other high quality acrylic sealants you will feel the surface increase in slickness as you wipe it off.

[3]In between- This would be Angelo's method. Apply it to the whole car then remove. The only problem is that if you take a long time to apply it to the whole car or you have a large car it might start to haze. If it starts to haze you have entered the 'Haze' section. In this case just let it set up for another 20-30 minutes and your fine.

The polymers in Wet Diamond are sometimes referred to as German super polymers and it uses a very advanced delivery system. The polymers reach the surface of the paint almost immediately and begin to link almost instantly. This is why you can remove the product wet (what is gonna stick has stuck) with no degradation in durability, coating thickness, or looks.

I have tried options #1 and #2 but I have not tried #3. I think I prefer #1. I apply to the entire car and then wait 30+ minutes. Removal is a snap once the product has dried, and I have not experienced any streaking (yet) on my black car. I cannot remember whether I had any "dusting," which I presume is the dried residue. If I did, I guess I didn't find it to be a problem. I'll pay more attention to this next time.

 

[CEE DOG]

The reason I asked is that there is an ongoing, albeit always friendly, debate on the optimal way to apply BFWD. The three options were outlined by Todd a while back:

I have tried options #1 and #2 but I have not tried #3. I think I prefer #2. I apply to the entire car and then wait 30+ minutes. Removal is a snap once the product has dried, and I have not experienced any streaking (yet) on my black car. I cannot remember whether I had any "dusting," which I presume is the dried residue. If I did, I guess I didn't find it to be a problem. I'll pay more attention to this next time.

Thank you, this is excellent info indeed! I will use this knowledge next time I use BFWD. I didn't realize this was an acrylic sealant though. I feel a little apprehensive about putting an acrylic on my Sky. Are you positive it can't cause any kind of etching?

 

[imported_User Name]

I'm now on my second bottle of BFWD and I've never noticed dusting or streaking, but admitedly I don't have a great eye for these things. It doesn't help that my car is white, which doesn't lend itself to seeing any dusting.

I will look for it next time.

I always apply BFWD with my G110 at speed setting 3, using a Megs 9006 finishing pad. I go super thin and usually do the entire car before removing.

Removal has always been a breeze and slickness thereafter is unmatched.

 

[imported_akimel]

Thank you, this is excellent info indeed! I will use this knowledge next time I use BFWD. I didn't realize this was an acrylic sealant though. I feel a little apprehensive about putting an acrylic on my Sky. Are you positive it can't cause any kind of etching?

Now you have me curious, Corey. Why do you think that an acrylic sealant might etch the paint? Has this been a problem for specific products? Klasse, e.g., is an acrylic sealant (though I do not believe that it is a cross-linking sealant like BFWD) and has been around a long time. In any case, I have not heard of any concerns along these lines ever being expressed about BFWD. I'm sure that someone from PAC will quickly speak to this question.

 

[imported_Bunky]

Another nice review.

I have seen dusting before but I thought it was related to static cling but saw it more with another sealant.

Except for one specific product, I always apply the lsp to the entire car and then buff out. I have been known to over apply which is less forgiving if you wait until the end.

 

[imported_wendell jarvis]

Great review, maybe PAC will have the Tequila and BFWD as a Bogo or sell as a Twin pack..........

 

[CEE DOG]

Now you have me curious, Corey. Why do you think that an acrylic sealant might etch the paint? Has this been a problem for specific products?

I hesitated mentioning it as I'm sure it's not an issue with BFWD or somebody would have heard about it here. I mentioned it anyway just because I would like to be sure its not and more knowledgable on why it is not a factor. I have no first hand knowledge of acrylic sealants actually doing this but I don't often use acrylic sealants. The reason I mention it is because a well respected chemist in the auto paint industry mentioned this is a possibility with some acrylic sealants. I do use Klasse on my door jambs and have never noticed an etching issue with that.
I look forward to more info from PAC on this topic.

Another nice review.

I have seen dusting before but I thought it was related to static cling but saw it more with another sealant.

Except for one specific product, I always apply the lsp to the entire car and then buff out. I have been known to over apply which is less forgiving if you wait until the end.

Thank you Al! I do the same thing with application any time a product will allow it. Much more efficient. As for dusting I haven't eer had that happen with a sealant before. I did have it happen with PB LNB but the dust stuck to the towel and wiped off easily.

Great review, maybe PAC will have the Tequila and BFWD as a Bogo or sell as a Twin pack..........

Thank you Wendell, sign me up for that bogo :wink:

 

[imported_akimel]

I hesitated mentioning it as I'm sure it's not an issue with BFWD or somebody would have heard about it here. I mentioned it anyway just because I would like to be sure its not and more knowledgable on why it is not a factor. I have no first hand knowledge of acrylic sealants actually doing this but I don't often use acrylic sealants. The reason I mention it is because a well respected chemist in the auto paint industry mentioned this is a possibility with some acrylic sealants. I do use Klasse on my door jambs and have never noticed an etching issue with that.
I look forward to more info from PAC on this topic.

While we are waiting for a definitive response, I'll give my two cents: I cannot imagine Todd Helme and the many other high-powered detailers using BFWD on all of the expensive, exotic cars they detail if they thought there was any chance whatsoever that Wet Diamond might damage the paint of those vehicles. Too much is at stake.

I presume that all protectants sold by reliable dealers like PAC or AutoGeek are safe to use on our cars. I would love to hear a chemist talk about acrylic sealants and tell us how they are different from and similar to other sealants sold on the market.







Thank you Wendell, sign me up for that bogo :wink:[/QUOTE]

 

[CEE DOG]

I presume that all protectants sold by reliable dealers like PAC or AutoGeek are safe to use on our cars. I would love to hear a chemist talk about acrylic sealants and tell us how they are different from and similar to other sealants sold on the market.

Well said! I completely agree with you.

I'm going to give a couple people a call (chemists) and try to get something on record about it.

 

[CEE DOG]

Now you have me curious, Corey. Why do you think that an acrylic sealant might etch the paint? Has this been a problem for specific products? Klasse, e.g., is an acrylic sealant (though I do not believe that it is a cross-linking sealant like BFWD) and has been around a long time. In any case, I have not heard of any concerns along these lines ever being expressed about BFWD. I'm sure that someone from PAC will quickly speak to this question.

Ok, I spoke to somebody in the know about this today.

Yes, Some Acrylic sealants can actually penetrate and and etch paint. When a sealant is high in coumpounds like Heptyne or Xylene the sealant can become "chemically hot" which can cause it to penetrate and etch into some clear coats.

 

[imported_akimel]

Ok, I spoke to somebody in the know about this today.

Yes, Some Acrylic sealants can actually penetrate and and etch paint. When a sealant is high in coumpounds like Heptyne or Xylene the sealant can become "chemically hot" which can cause it to penetrate and etch into some clear coats.

This may be true, Corey; but it's an unhelpful piece of information, unless specific products are identified that actually do etch paint. Which sealants presently sold in the market are high in Heptyne or Xylene? Klasse acrylic sealant, for example, has been around a long time. Have people reported etching problems caused by KAIO or by its cousin Wertstat Prime? If one does a Google search, one finds that many respectable companies offer acrylic sealants of one kind or another--Menzerna FMJ, Menzerna Acrylic Jacket, Chemical Guys' M-Seal, Chemical Guys' FS sealant, Chemical Guys' Jetseal, and of course Blackfire Wet Diamond. It would be a shame for a fine and safe product to get tarred by a "generalization."

My knowledge of chemistry is zilch; hence I am totally dependent on the information passed on to me by others. I do know that lots of inaccurate information gets passed around on the internet. How many times, for example, have sd heard someone authoritatively declare, "Armor All will crack your vinyl dashboard."

When I am confronted by a piece of information whose source is unnamed, I have to ask, what is this person's name and credentials? Who does he work for? I hate to be suspicious; but I do try, in fairness, to distribute my suspicion equally.

I sure wish we had a chemist in this forum.

 

[CEE DOG]

This may be true, Corey; but it's an unhelpful piece of information, unless specific products are identified that actually do etch paint. It would be a shame for a fine and safe product to get tarred by a "generalization."

I think its only unhelpful if somebody goes spreading nonsense rather then the context in which I put it. I never said this or that product etch paint. I am passing on knoweldge from 2 different people that know this stuff that the chemical makeup of some acrylic sealants can indeed react with the the chemical makeup of some clearcoats. I would certainly never try to spread nonsense which is why I am specific about what I'm saying. I didn't even think this product was an acrylic sealant until somebody mentioned it. Then I asked a question to be sure there was no issue before applying it to my Sky in the future and to learn more about the issue we are discussing.

When I am confronted by a piece of information whose source is unnamed, I have to ask, what is this person's name and credentials? Who does he work for? I hate to be suspicious; but I do try, in fairness, to distribute my suspicion equally.

Edit: text removed and PM sent

I apologize if getting into this was unproductive. It was not my intention to cause harm

 

[CEE DOG]

FYI: I just read a post from Jack that said this is not an acryilic sealant and the acrylic content is less then 1%.

http://truthindetailing.com/Forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=53444

switerajaya,

The "rumor" you refer to was a speculation from someone that did not have their facts straight. There are many acrylics available in the market for a variety of uses. The "type" the person was referring to, is definitely a bad puppy. None of this style of acrylic is used in any product we manufacture and has never been use in any product we manufacture. On the MSDS sheet for BF Wet Diamond, it states there is an acrylic in it. The acrylic we use is a thickener and constitutes less than 1%, (which technically we do not have to mention on the MSDS because the amount is so small). It has no adverse effect and never has. Wet Diamond has been in use for 9 years, and has an excellent reputation.

You can apply it over the Karlack, but understand that the same issues exist concerning how ?clean? the surface is. If there is some contaminant on the surface, it may shorten the durability due to poor bonding. This would apply to any ?non-cleaning? sealant.

Concerning your application question, if you are using a polisher to apply, let the product ?haze? and then buff off. You may want to try a Gold pad as it will apply sealants more consistently than the red and very thin. We tell people if ?you can see the product going on, it is enough?. More is not better, put it on thin, let haze, buff off. If you want, you can apply a second coat. Give the first coat time to fully ?cure? which varies with the climate, but generally is good in few hours. If you are not sure, let it stand over night.

I hope this answers your question and helps you.

jk

 

[imported_JSFM35X]

I was wondering what the "BFWD" is if not mostly acrylic? I saw the post that says it less than 1%. All I can I can atest to is that I did my hood with a sample of BFWD and all went better than great. Also, I have a bad combination on my hands. A non metalic black car that mars so easily I have suspected the wind from inducing swirls in it!

I liked the results I achieved a few weeks ago with the sample. Its been 4-6 weeks and its still slick. The beads are not a tight as they were but it sheds quickly as I drive and releases dirt well. I can test this becassue I only polished and sealed my hood on that day. I wasnted to test the durability and ease of use before doing the whole car.

I was lucky enough to get to order 2 bottles BFWD and BF spray sealant in last weeks special pricing. It is my intention to give one bottle to my brother who never cleans his car b/c its too much work. The BFWD is so easy on and off I thought I give it a try.

Ultimatly I still really like the WOWA sealant I have used becasue it is so easy. The product worked well but the Long term durability was better than the P21S 100% and not as good as 845IW. The WOWA did not give me the insane slickness the BFWD does and for some reason, that got me to comit to the bottle. I hgope it proves to be worth my while in looks, protection and durability to buff it off. Time will tell. I switch alot looking for the Best of the Best. I have been thrugh so many product. It is actually good becasue you get to see one prodcuts advantages and disadvantages over the others in the market. What I have learned it price means nothing! I think there is alot of marketing in the boutique car chemical market and I for 1 am biteing the hooks! :w00t:

So far it's been fun and as a hobby I enjoy it.

Jeff

I am not looking to know too much about the chemical make up but now I am curious that the active ingredient is in BFWD if it not acrylic. Look, PAC is not fly by night company and I am sure that have insurance if someting goes wrong, just like I do for my business. It's called product liability insurance. I also know that I am not the first to use BFWD and if there were issues pro's would have had an problem before me. I see no heavy negative reviews and some people will always have a performance problem with certian products. Botton Line is know from where your information comes in life (some have an axe to grind), do you own homework and learn from your mistakes. After being a member her for a while you know the posters you can rely on for expert opinion.

Have a good night all

 

[mikeyg402]

I work on a lot of different cars from daily driven cars like that Saturn to high end super cars such as Lamborghini/Ferrari/1000hp Supra's and I use BFWD on all of them. Ive had the chance to use Zymol Vintage on a few cars and even did a side by side comparison on a black hood. Vintage takes so damn long to apply and I personally think its more trouble than what its worth. When BFWD is applied correctly it will last just as long as Vintage if not longer. I think the shine is about 10x better as well. If the admin doesn't like this link then remove it, but for those who don't know what wax I am talking about it is this one:

That price is about the cheapest I have seen too :scared:and there are even more expensive waxes out there as well. The only other wax I truly love are products from SwissVax. They seem to hold up almost as long as BFWD. Since I tailor to a lot of high end clients I will use whatever they want. But once they see BFWD in action, I'd say 9 out of 10 tell me to use that. In most cases i have there cars for two days and once I finish the car i apply the sealant then the first coating of BFWD. Then the following morning i finish the touch ups and follow with one final coat.

I probably apply BFWD way to heavy. I've always wanted either David (streetdreams) or Todd by my side when applying the wax to see if they put it on like I do. Next time I apply it i will take lots of pics though. I let it siton the aint for a minimum of 60 minutes. Then buff it off. I apply it with my Porta Cable and red pad at a speed around 4-6 depending on color. If its black I go slower if its white I go faster. Even though I might be putting it on pretty heavy when I let it sit for 60+minutes it seems to 'bond' and not dust at all for me.

 

[bmw5541]

Michael,
Try using a gold pad at speed 3-4. Apply it very thin. If applied to heavy, you are wasting product and making it more difficult to remove.