Removing vs hiding

I

imported_turbomangt

New member
I had a customer bring me a car that was detailed elsewhere and he heard about me after the fact. When he got the car back from X detailer it looked fine. a month later he saw the same swirls come back. Since I rarely use a rotary (seems like I have not mastered it) due to the fact I introduce more swirls, my go to machines are the DeWalt 443 and the cyclo. It seems to work fine using a more aggessive pad and compound for paint correcting. I wondered what other people are using that don't use the rotary much for removing swirls. Feedback appreciated. Gary
 
I had a customer bring me a car that was detailed elsewhere and he heard about me after the fact. When he got the car back from X detailer it looked fine. a month later he saw the same swirls come back. Since I rarely use a rotary (seems like I have not mastered it) due to the fact I introduce more swirls, my go to machines are the DeWalt 443 and the cyclo. It seems to work fine using a more aggessive pad and compound for paint correcting. I wondered what other people are using that don't use the rotary much for removing swirls. Feedback appreciated. Gary
 
Well, I tried out my new rotary and it left more swirls/haze than it did good. So I redid the car using the following:

Porter Cable Random Orbital Polisher

White polishing pad and Poorboy's SSR2

Black pad and Poorboy's SSR1

Black pad and Poorboy's Polish with Carnauba

and then finished it off with Natty's Blue Wax.

The car came out perfect after that. :)
 
Well, I tried out my new rotary and it left more swirls/haze than it did good. So I redid the car using the following:

Porter Cable Random Orbital Polisher

White polishing pad and Poorboy's SSR2

Black pad and Poorboy's SSR1

Black pad and Poorboy's Polish with Carnauba

and then finished it off with Natty's Blue Wax.

The car came out perfect after that. :)
 
I'm sure we will here from the people that say the only way to remove swirls (not hiding) is with a rotary. I agree with you, I think the power of the 443 over the DAPC is much more capable to remove defects. But I want to hear from both sides. Gary
 
I'm sure we will here from the people that say the only way to remove swirls (not hiding) is with a rotary. I agree with you, I think the power of the 443 over the DAPC is much more capable to remove defects. But I want to hear from both sides. Gary
 
Swirls/Marring are inevitable, if his car its a daily driver. Most likely he will get swril/marring by just driving down the road.
 
Swirls/Marring are inevitable, if his car its a daily driver. Most likely he will get swril/marring by just driving down the road.
 
The Cyclo does a fine job of swirl removal. I usually use it with SSR2.5 or IP and orange pads, followed by PO85RD/white. It's not as fast as a rotary, so my usual combo is rotary/optimum/wool light cut followed by cyclo/white/PO85RD followed by cyclo/black/RMG or cyclo/white/VM.
 
The Cyclo does a fine job of swirl removal. I usually use it with SSR2.5 or IP and orange pads, followed by PO85RD/white. It's not as fast as a rotary, so my usual combo is rotary/optimum/wool light cut followed by cyclo/white/PO85RD followed by cyclo/black/RMG or cyclo/white/VM.
 
Heres another Cyclo user. Although I did get a rotary from Harbor Freight and a couple of pads and some Optimum polish.

When all I had was my Cyclo I was using the SSR 1, 2 and 3. Not alot of SSR 3 :) it is pretty strong stuff. I used the Cyclo pads and I could certainly remove swirls.
 
Heres another Cyclo user. Although I did get a rotary from Harbor Freight and a couple of pads and some Optimum polish.

When all I had was my Cyclo I was using the SSR 1, 2 and 3. Not alot of SSR 3 :) it is pretty strong stuff. I used the Cyclo pads and I could certainly remove swirls.
 
I generally agree with hiding instead of removing for customers who will just mar the paint again anyhow. If (big "if", but it *is* possible ;) ) you can avoid marring it, and have plenty of paint to work with, then sure, remove 'em.



Note that I am by no means an expert with the rotary. I hadn't used one for over 20 years, until I got tired of marring in the hard Audi clear, and I still don't use it unless I really need its power. But then I took it right out of the box and used it on my 5K mile S8 so maybe I'm, uhm, "different" :o



If I were a pro, sometimes I'd use the rotary (even if you're no expert) just to remove a lot of the marring and/or save time. When I did then black rent-a-Suburban (probably pretty much like what pros deal with both as far as condition and finished product expectations) I tried the Cyclo and the PC with 4" pads, and those approaches just weren't gonna cut it. So I hit it with the rotary and a mild product (3m PI-III RC 05933/polishing pad). I then immediately did it again with the Cyclo and the same product. No holograms (almost certainly thanks to the Cyclo), no problems, *almost* ready-to-wax finish. Anything that was left wouldn't have bothered most people but no it wasn't perfect. No way was I gonna risk messing up the paint on somebody else's vehicle (sounds like a pro's dilemma, huh). So I then used the PC with #80 then waxed. It turned heads for the month+ I was driving it and the rental guy almost fainted when he saw how nice it looked.



On our MPV I can remove all but the worst marring with the PC/4" pads or the Cyclo. Same was true of the WRX we had. I was pretty surprised when the same approach didn't work on the Suburban, but it was a lot more messed up than our vehicles ever get.
 
I generally agree with hiding instead of removing for customers who will just mar the paint again anyhow. If (big "if", but it *is* possible ;) ) you can avoid marring it, and have plenty of paint to work with, then sure, remove 'em.



Note that I am by no means an expert with the rotary. I hadn't used one for over 20 years, until I got tired of marring in the hard Audi clear, and I still don't use it unless I really need its power. But then I took it right out of the box and used it on my 5K mile S8 so maybe I'm, uhm, "different" :o



If I were a pro, sometimes I'd use the rotary (even if you're no expert) just to remove a lot of the marring and/or save time. When I did then black rent-a-Suburban (probably pretty much like what pros deal with both as far as condition and finished product expectations) I tried the Cyclo and the PC with 4" pads, and those approaches just weren't gonna cut it. So I hit it with the rotary and a mild product (3m PI-III RC 05933/polishing pad). I then immediately did it again with the Cyclo and the same product. No holograms (almost certainly thanks to the Cyclo), no problems, *almost* ready-to-wax finish. Anything that was left wouldn't have bothered most people but no it wasn't perfect. No way was I gonna risk messing up the paint on somebody else's vehicle (sounds like a pro's dilemma, huh). So I then used the PC with #80 then waxed. It turned heads for the month+ I was driving it and the rental guy almost fainted when he saw how nice it looked.



On our MPV I can remove all but the worst marring with the PC/4" pads or the Cyclo. Same was true of the WRX we had. I was pretty surprised when the same approach didn't work on the Suburban, but it was a lot more messed up than our vehicles ever get.
 
I have removed some pretty nasty swirls w/ my PC, PG,IP,FPII. I did a write up on it awhile ago http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=58349. But for a regular customer that gets a wash and wax every month or so i really dont see a problem w/ just hiding sense the swirls will be kept to a minium with good care...never have just covered up swirls but for a lower end detail i would think about it.
 
I have removed some pretty nasty swirls w/ my PC, PG,IP,FPII. I did a write up on it awhile ago http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=58349. But for a regular customer that gets a wash and wax every month or so i really dont see a problem w/ just hiding sense the swirls will be kept to a minium with good care...never have just covered up swirls but for a lower end detail i would think about it.
 
I mostly detail cars first with the rotary then I use Cyclo and Menzerna Micro Polish then a sealant with cyclo. No hazing, swirls or marring after that treatment-.
 
I mostly detail cars first with the rotary then I use Cyclo and Menzerna Micro Polish then a sealant with cyclo. No hazing, swirls or marring after that treatment-.
 
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