Reasonable price for David Fermani to Opti Coat a NEW car?

All you moochers(of my idea) need to back off. Don't believe the hype about being added to a title. It would only be moderately cool, but totally not worth the price. Plus Bob hasn't said if it's cool or not yet and if you should buy into it yet.

....Bob?



autoaesthetica said:
Can we get some burn the title too? I mean I just spoke to David on the phone last week..that's gotta count for something.
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Damn...............Detail burger has the "Omage" to the Donald on his avatar, he must really like the "Trump Tower"...............................this running up the score stuff will stop..................as soon as it is not funny which will be never. :deadhorse:
 
Jean-Claude said:
All you moochers(of my idea) need to back off. Don't believe the hype about being added to a title. It would only be moderately cool, but totally not worth the price. Plus Bob hasn't said if it's cool or not yet and if you should buy into it yet.

....Bob?
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You know what is cool? being a person who does not start threads with omissions of facts to hurt somone for thier enjoyment, the only thing "Cooler" though is the avalanche of ownage that fell on "The burgmeister aka Donald" and Mr Hype when he decided to drive the "Stupid train" onto this site.
 
There's always that moment of enlightenment when you take a misstep and you think, "wow, I didn't think that would happen." I wonder on what page that feeling hit?



Auto Concierge said:
You know what is cool? being a person who does not start threads with omissions of facts to hurt somone for thier enjoyment, the only thing "Cooler" though is the avalanche of ownage that fell on "The burgmeister aka Donald" and Mr Hype when he decided to drive the "Stupid train" onto this site.
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First off - i did not change the title of this thread. Users who create threads are not able to modify the title even if you edit the first post. Try it.



Only the owner of this site can do something like that.



Secondly I did not change my avatar to Donald Trump. Someone moderating this site did that. Ask yourself if you think that's professional behavior.



What is staggering to me is that I was doing something reasonable and fair. Asking on a detail forum if a detail quote I got was a reasonable quote.



At exactly what point should I have been "ashamed" for doing that?



Have you ever asked for other quotes after receiving one? Yes you have.



Would you have appreciated this type of reaction?



Im honestly blown away by the unprofessionalism and childishness I am seeing by the moderators here...



And David Fermani, who just sent me the most unbelievably immature text I have received from anyone over age twelve ...



Wow. Wow.



This guy runs a business?





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This tells me a lot about David Fermani. Glad I am going to give my $1700 to someone else.
 
I have nothing to feel ashamed of.



Just because someone owns a web site and can screw around with my avatar and change my thread title?



That just reflects unprofessionalism and immaturity on their part.



Have you ever asked around after receiving a price quote?



Yep. You have.



Do you feel ashamed?



No.



I was polite, professional, understanding, appreciative, and nice through the entire process. I did nothing wrong.



Look at my posts again.



Having my avatar changed by a moderator who never graduated 3rd grade?

Receiving a harassing insulting text from Dave Fermani on my phone?



Im ashamed on their behalf honestly.



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Detail Burger,



I believe the moment it started to get nasty here was this point:



Quote: Originally Posted by dschia View Post

Any idea how much time does detail work spend on your car?

Detail Works had my car from 8am until about 4pm at $350 and the car looked 1,000% brand new perfection. So I guess I can use that as my guideline. That is 8 hours with most likely an hour lunch break? LOL. So 7 hours ... $350 .... is my experience, and why I am having difficulty with 20 hours $1,700.



I think is a matter of how much time needed to get the job done rather what car cost what.

Of course. I agree. But someone can take 40 hours to clean a car if they want to. Keep that in mind. As for how much time will be needed? Its a new car. I've driven it for 4 weeks. So that should give you a decent idea of how much cleaning is needed prior to the detailing. I dont want to be quoted 20 hours when it may really only need 7 hours of work. That's why I am asking if 20 hours and $1700 is reasonable for a brand new car needing opti coat.



Unfortunately you didn't answer the question you quoted. Is $1,700 a fair price for what is involved?



Please note... this is a BRAND NEW CAR. It rolled off the lot 1 month ago. It has a brand new paint job that was completed 2 months ago. This isnt a 1980 BMW that needs extensive work. Its brand new. Not a single scuff or chip on it, anywhere. The wheels are also 1 month old. Brand new. I just wanted to get my rims and paint sealed. As part of this, the items need minor cleaning and polishing from only 4 weeks of driving. Cost should not be a mystery.



and....



Okay well there seems to be two relevant factors here:



1) The fact that its a brand new car

2) The fact that I was quoted up to 20 hours of work sight-unseen.



I should have started this thread pointing out that its a brand new car. I apologize for not doing that. Its probably the most relevant issue in my reason for asking about the price.



Here are pictures taken of the vehicle a week or two ago. And a picture of the Wheel that needs sealing taken a day ago.



It's current condition.











Is it a brand new car or just a new paint job?

It's both. I purchased the new car and had it painted to the color I wanted at the time of purchase. Dealer added $ to the tag price for me. Everything is 100% brand new.



Posting a picture of the paint condition in direct light could help us better determine if it needs 20hrs of correction, regardless if it's new or not.

It definitely doesn't need 20 hours of correction. But the 20 hours was for both washing, polishing, and Opti-Coating ... not just corrections.



The *only* factor here is that I told the detailer that after a couple washes, I started noticing buffer marks from the detailer. So he is aware he will need to have those taken out, but I know from personal experience that doesn't take very long. The car is in 1,000% perfect condition aside from this.



I guess the real issue is I should not have been quoted sight-unseen. Anyone who gives me a price without seeing the car, and that price happens to be insanely high - makes me feel taken advantage-of. That's why I started this thread. He tells me his price is reasonable. And when im ready to accept a reasonable price, I can contact him. Yet he's never even seen the car and he's quoting me 20 hours of work on it. Something does not seem right about that.



You went from just asking, to a sort of calling out. The ABSOLUTE bottom line is, you asked David for a price, he gave you one and you can choose to take it or leave it. Research of and knowledge of products and processes is viewed as more than acceptable on autopia. But it appears that it went beyond that.
 
Lose lose from the start.
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Really? When you asked for opinions on a quote you received, or went to get another quote, was that a lose lose situation for you? I dont understand your thinking. Sorry.



To the previous poster: It never got nasty. I was asking if the quote I got was fair. I never commented on Dave, or his ability to do good work. I intentionally did not mention Dave at all, as an act of respect to him, so that he would not feel I was trying to "out" him. Why would I mention his name? All that would do is cause trouble and negate my own goals of getting a fair quote. Obviously I was still considering working with him. Saying his name here would only put that at risk, and harm my own needs.



The moderator changed my title thread to include Dave's name. I didn't.



Apparently he feels its "funny" to cause trouble and make me look like a jerk.



Try creating a thread and changing the title, by editing it. You can write a new title in, but it wont change what your title is on the TOPIC LIST. Try it. Only a moderator can do that. Proof that I didn't.



What does that tell you about Dave and the moderators here?



Then the moderator changed my avatar to Donald Trump? Seriously? I dont even know what that means. Donald Trump? Does that imply that im wealthy? Need a better hair cut? What was the goal with that move, Mr. Moderator? Unreal ...



Look at my posts saying thank you to everyone. I have been humble, professional, and polite. I actually felt bad for asking other opinions. I dont normally "shop around". i like to pay people what they are worth, but I have no experience in this industry, so I was asking.



Is that unreasonble? Does that warrant nasty text messages? Changing my avatar? Dishonest conduct on the part of the moderator by changing the Title to loook like I was tryingto harm Dave? Im honestly blown away by this conduct. If I participated on this forum in the past, I would stop doing so after this. Any forum owner who does stuff like that doesnt deserve to own a forum. Just my opinion.



I did take issue with, and debate certain principals, like whether I should pay the same as a Lambo owner. But I never took issue with Dave, got nasty, or said anything about the quality of his work. Go read my posts again. If someone edited my posts and changed my words as well as changing the title, then you know what? Screw this place. I am not going to waste another minute here. At that point, what can I do?



In fact I thanked Marc for his counter-opinion and told him that he was "on point".



So ... no. There is no exuse for harassing texts being sent to my phone by Dave Fermani, nor the moderator here changing my Avatar to Donald Trump. Quite honestly, I know the difference between right and wrong. And those actions far surpass "inappropriateness" .... by about a hundred miles.





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No, you only turned a simple detailing quote into a fishing story of epic proportion. After hearing Dave's side of the story it's pretty obvious a reasonable (yes, I said reasonable) quote was blown up into "IT WAS THIS BIG!!!" and taken completely out of context. Next time you ask for second opinions on something, make sure the details you're sharing are accurate and TAKE THE OPINIONS YOU'RE GIVEN rather than letting them pass through one ear and out the other. I'm sure you'll find a great local shop that will give you the same value and 1000% brand new perfect results you're used to from "The Best Detailers in SoCal". I wouldn't want your business.



-Tim (AutoLavish)



BTW, here's a link to the true two best SoCal detailers:



Envious Auto Detailing | Orange County, CA - Home

Superior Shine Mobile Auto Detailing, Creating shine since 1989, WE COME TO YOU!
 
"The *only* factor here is that I told the detailer that after a couple washes, I started noticing buffer marks from the detailer. So he is aware he will need to have those taken out, but I know from personal experience that doesn't take very long. The car is in 1,000% perfect condition aside from this.



I guess the real issue is I should not have been quoted sight-unseen. Anyone who gives me a price without seeing the car, and that price happens to be insanely high - makes me feel taken advantage-of. That's why I started this thread. He tells me his price is reasonable. And when im ready to accept a reasonable price, I can contact him. Yet he's never even seen the car and he's quoting me 20 hours of work on it. Something does not seem right about that."



I did not mean to suggest you were trying to get nasty. I meant, at this specific point, what you said lit a fire under a lot of professional detailer's rear ends. If I read everything right, you asked him for a price sight unseen and then complained about being given a price sight unseen. Come here and ask if a price is fair? Shoot man, do a search, tons of people do this and no one is given grief. Thing is, once you said you knew it didn't require x-hours or his price was unreasonable, it ignited the said fire.



From your response, you sound as if your intentions were/are not bad. But what you said, or rather, how you said it, was a bit messed up. Now a bunch of guys, who, at some point has battled with being considered nothing more than glorified car washers and charge too much for our years of back-friggin-breaking experience is a bit aggravated.





DetailBurger said:
It never got nasty. I never had a nasty bone in my body through this entire process. I was asking if the quote I got was fair. I never commented on Dave or his ability to do good work. In fact I left his name out intentionally, so this would not reflect on him. That was an act of kindness on my part.



The moderator changed my title thread to include Dave's name. Because he is apparently trying to cause trouble and make me look like a jerk. I did not, and would not do that. Try creating a thread and changing the title by editing it. You can't. It will not let you. So there is proof that I did not do it. What does that tell you about Dave and the moderators here?



Look at my posts saying thank you to everyone, and feeling bad because I felt awkward asking for other opinions. I am not usually comfortable asking people other opinions. I didnt want Dave to think I was undermining him. But asking around after receiving a quote is normal. All of you have done it. And I never got nasty. Sorry. If you thought I did, you need to go back and read the entire thread.



I may have taken issue with certain principals, but that had nothing to do with Dave, the quality of his work, or his quote. It was related to principals like whether I should be charged the same as a guy who owns a Lambo. Etc. I received responses from "Marc" and said "Thank you" to him, and told him his reply was "On point".



So ... no. There is no exuse for harassing texts being sent to my phone by Dave Fermani, nor the moderator here changing my Avatar to Donald Trump. Quite honestly, I know the difference between right and wrong. And those actions far surpass "inappropriateness" .... by about a hundred miles.





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Sorry. With all due respect, I dont agree that this got "THIS BIG" .... or anything youre saying.



1) I got a quote

2) It seemed a little high

3) I made the stupid mistake of asking if a quote was fair on a forum where a bunch of Dave's buddies post.



That was my mistake.



Had I asked on another forum where nobody knows dave, there wouldnt be any personal feelings getting hurt. or "defending our buddy". Or demonizing, or childish fighting. LOL ... its truly almost humorous to me to be honest. Im kind of blown away that everyone *else* made this such a big deal.



I was just asking for opinions on a quote.



Dave details the car of the owner of this site. So i am not surprised that suddenly my posts are being edited, my title edited, my avatar is changing.



All i was doing was asking if a quote was fair. I did nothing else. I remained respectful. I retained and conveyed opinions. I accepted correction (even from you mark, saying thank you and telling you that you're on point).



Sorry. I dont see what I did wrong.



However this (below)? This is wrong. Childish. Unprofessional. Out of control inappropriate. Disagree? Then lets agree to disagree.



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DetailBurger said:
i like to pay people what they are worth, but I have no experience in this industry, so I was asking.





I did take issue with, and debate certain principals, like whether I should pay the same as a Lambo owner.
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Here's the issue, and I believe it's a fair assessment. You had your mind made up before you ever posted this thread. You were told by SEVERAL pros over SEVERAL pages how time consuming this level of detailing is. But you had it stuck in your head that your car was "perfect." With some exceptions, as Marc said. It was explained repeatedly that sight-unseen quotes are often a range. But then again, your car was "perfect." It was also pointed out that David charges hourly, whether for a Lambo, a BMW 6-series, or a Kia Rio. But your "brand new car is perfect." See where I'm going?



It seems all you really wanted was for someone to tell you "you're right, it's too high" so you could go back and argue price. It was OVERWHELMINGLY stated that a 20-hour detail, ON TOP of one including highly-polished HREs, was a reasonable time frame. Now, if you really pay people what they are worth, buy yourself a calculator and go crazy with it. It all keeps coming back to the same thing. Time x labor rate = $$$$$. It hasn't changed.



The truth is you wanted David's quality but didn't want his prices. There's no ducking it.
 
As a third party consumer, I completely agree that you have the right to disagree with two components of the quote - time and cost per hour. If it is cost per hour, asking for another cost per hour is valid and can be declined by the detailer. If it is the number of hours, I am concerned that you (DB) viewed it as a firm time estimate, while Dave likely did not, but based upon his experience (one of the things you are paying him for) and your description (somewhat contradictory) he did not. It is typical in the industry to get an evaluation, talk over the work and level of correction required, etc. and either agree on a price or walk away. It is really a rather simple equation, and process, and it should be done with a minimal number of assumptions. You asked him to quote with a lot of assumtions and he obviously doesn't feel that your assumptions were correct - ergo perhaps the proper resonse from Dave should have been "I'd need to see it to evaluate it personally and dscuss the level of correction". I tend to think he is more correct than you are about the time required (considering your posts on the HRE front) and that the level of correction to get it "perfect" takes far more time than you might think unless you have ever done this before yourself. It is a shame that this has gotten to this level of rhetoric actually.



Jeff
 
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