Re: Most effective polishes

C

CRUSHAH

New member
This summer, after doing much research, I went ahead and invested in a DA Porter Cable. I'm not sure how many folks here are familiar with Adams polishes, but I decided to go with that brand for it's color-coded simplicity. I purchased a kit which included it's Severe swirl remove, Swirl & Haze remover, Machine Wax, clay and some good rags and extra pads.



I started with some car wash that was especially strong and designed to take off old wax. I then clayed the car, and washed it again with the same powerful soap. The car looked noticably better. A bit about the car, it's a Black 06' conv vette. The paint is original and in decent shape. I do get lets of comments on the paint...even up close. However, if you look really close, you can see water spots and swirls on the hood and trunk. The sides of the car just has lots of minor swirls. Most of this stuff you can see during the daytime or if there's lots of light, in the evening it's difficult to see the swirls and spots. Last point, the car has never been buffed or polished to my knowledge. I'm the 2nd owner and purchased the car when it had 5k miles on it.



Anyway, after the claying and washing of car, I started with the swirl and haze mover. I was sure that I wouldn't need the severe polish. After using the swirl and haze remover, most of the swirls and water spots were still visible, though there was some slight improvement. I then went to the Severe swirl remover & green pad. After throughly working in the polish, there was virtually no change. I started off slow around 3 and went to 5 on the DA. I then went to an auto shop that carried lots of detail supplies. I purchased a 3M product that was designed for black cars and touted as top-notch stuff that should work with no problem... The results were the same... still spots and swirls...it didn't even take out the minor swirls. There was however some slight improvement.



I was on the brink of getting Wizards Turbo Cut, which is some pretty rough stuff. Does anyone know of any products out there that really get the job done? I've also heard that water spots can eat into your "clear" if they remain on the car long enough...which is what I think happened. I'm thinking about taking it to a professional detailer.. I'm guessing that it'll either need some wet-sanding, or they'll have to use a rotary polisher.
 
If it has water spots it could be that they were caused by acid rain and if that is the case, the paint ought to be decontaminated and neutralized with a three step wash to prevent the acid from reactivating and continuing the etching. Ron Ketcham is the authority on this procedure.



Typically, Corvettes have that hard GM clear that might require multiple passes and cutting and polishing pads on a DA polisher. I'm unfamilar with the specific polishes you have



Polishing with a rotary is probably a good option. It might be enough and no need for sanding but it's still possible the DA could do the job.it would just take quite a while as polishing hard paint pretty much always does. Remember to use a isopropyl alcohol:water mix to wipe the paint between polishing steps to check on your progress so you know the true condition of the paint as you go along. It's not a bad idea to check it under a variety of lighting sources such as halogen lights, an incandescent work light and natural sunlight. See how long the whole process can take?



If you go to a pro, make sure he can treat any possible acid rain etching. Hate to get everything all corrected but for there to still be the potential for it to just etch again.
 
Corvette paint is very hard, deep etched water spots are going to take a lot of work. And as Bill mentioned, they need to be decontaminated before you do the polishing. The key to doing this stuff is a test area. Start small, then go big. Honestly, I have no experience with Adams stuff, but I recommend getting some Meguiars 105 and using the Kevin Brown method on a small 2x2 area. Do several passes this way before you give up and go to a pro. If it works, great, move on to the rest of the car. If not, find a pro in the area.
 
I don't think you mentioned the type of buffing pad you are using. This is VERY critical and makes a difference in how any polish performs. You want to use a stiff pad. Also, you want to work a little heat into the equation so crank up the speed on the PC a bit. As far as technique, be sure you are going slow enough. It's always tempting to swing the PC back and forth in a big area while in fact the best results are by going very slowly and methodically in a small area. Also be sure you are allowing the polish to break down and work properly. It's not unusual to have to make 2-3 passes over each area with fresh polish.
 
CRUSHAH-Welcome to Autopia!



If using a PC, I'd recommend you switch to a 4" pad (with the appropriate size backing plate). IME (and I've been using PCs since around 1990) the larger pads create too much friction for effective, or at least efficient, correction.



Also, most products will need speed 6 to get much work done.



Unfortunately, the Porter Cable polisher is simply marginal at best for use on hard clear (I used mine on lots of hard-clear cars before getting something better). I consider the small pads a must.



And I'd be using Meguiar's M105, at least it offers a good amount of cut while still being PC-friendly, whichis something you have to watch for. Many aggressive products that you'll see in paint/body supply places will not work well with the PC; they don't break down properly.
 
Accumulator said:
Unfortunately, the Porter Cable polisher is simply marginal at best for use on hard clear (I used mine on lots of hard-clear cars before getting something better). I consider the small pads a must.



And I'd be using Meguiar's M105, at least it offers a good amount of cut while still being PC-friendly, whichis something you have to watch for. Many aggressive products that you'll see in paint/body supply places will not work well with the PC; they don't break down properly.
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I agree with everything that Accumulator has said, he pretty much nailed it on the head. Unfortunately, Corvette clear coat is extremely hard. The first time I did one, I tried it with a rotary/yellow compounding pad/M105 and it STILL wasn't enough. It was the toughest thing in my arsenal, so I had to order some TufBuf Black Wool pads to finally beat back the scratches. I haven't tried a Corvette with the PC yet, but I'd imagine you'd need to get pretty aggressive. Maybe Surbuf with M105 is what you're looking for.
 
Yep, the clear sounds like the clear on my Cadillac, infamous GM clear, even tougher than my Audi's or Mercedes Ceramiclear :(
 
Your best bet on the DA for hard Corvette clear is to get some Surbuf or Meguiars MF cutting pads. Which to use depends on how deep the defects are, but the Surbuf will offer more cut. I do not suggest using a rotary unless your well versed in using the tool, and correction can be achieved on these cars with a DA and proper pads, polishes, and technique. Be sure to tape off all the edges, as Corvettes have some very sharp ones that you can rub through very quickly (gas door, bumper covers, and rear hatch especially).



I was able to remove scratches on this C5 last weekend, which appeared to be from the previous owner washing with a green Scotch Brite pad! I used Meguiars M105 on my DA with 6.5" Surbuf pads. Some of the deeper ones required a few passes though. Light swirls should be a snap using D300 or M105 on the MF pads, but water spots may require some effort depending on how deep they've etched and Surbuf and M105 may be the better route.





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Rasky[/QUOTE]
 
I bet those MF pads and M105 on a GG DA would really be effective. I'll eventually add the Megs MF pads to my stash for any client work I may have. ( I could do Surbufs on a Cyclo via the M twins but that would still be too mild for this type of correction)
 
And I have the pleasure of polishing a double dose of the '89 Dupont clear: I detail my dad's '89 vette. Sheesh, between those two and the Audi, I have my fill of hard paint! Oh and not to mention two Mercedes Ceramiclear finishes too ! :wall
 
Thanks for the warm welcome and all of the great info! I knew that corvette clear was hard, but now I know that It'll just require a lot more work to get the results I'm looking for.
 
Bill D said:
If it has water spots it could be that they were caused by acid rain and if that is the case, the paint ought to be decontaminated and neutralized with a three step wash to prevent the acid from reactivating and continuing the etching. Ron Ketcham is the authority on this procedure.



Typically, Corvettes have that hard GM clear that might require multiple passes and cutting and polishing pads on a DA polisher. I'm unfamilar with the specific polishes you have



Polishing with a rotary is probably a good option. It might be enough and no need for sanding but it's still possible the DA could do the job.it would just take quite a while as polishing hard paint pretty much always does. Remember to use a isopropyl alcohol:water mix to wipe the paint between polishing steps to check on your progress so you know the true condition of the paint as you go along. It's not a bad idea to check it under a variety of lighting sources such as halogen lights, an incandescent work light and natural sunlight. See how long the whole process can take?



If you go to a pro, make sure he can treat any possible acid rain etching. Hate to get everything all corrected but for there to still be the potential for it to just etch again.
Click to expand...



I knew corvette paint and clear was hard, but I certainly under-estimated just how much! I'll certainly have to devote much more time and effort to the process. The whole process has certainly given me a whole new level of respect for professional detailers and DIY's that strive for and attain blemish-free results.



I had never heard of decontamination or wiping the surface with an alcolol-mix between polishing steps. In a short time I've already gained some valuable insight and am sure to learn a whole lot more from this site.



Brad B. said:
I don't think you mentioned the type of buffing pad you are using. This is VERY critical and makes a difference in how any polish performs. You want to use a stiff pad. Also, you want to work a little heat into the equation so crank up the speed on the PC a bit. As far as technique, be sure you are going slow enough. It's always tempting to swing the PC back and forth in a big area while in fact the best results are by going very slowly and methodically in a small area. Also be sure you are allowing the polish to break down and work properly. It's not unusual to have to make 2-3 passes over each area with fresh polish.
Click to expand...



Since this was my 1st time, I thought it easier to go with the Adams color-coded system. Each cut of polish is a different color and comes with matching pads which makes it easy to know which polish to use with which pad. Green = Toughest; Orange = Medium; White = Mild; Black = wax + sealant application. I'm certainly not here to bad mouth their products, in fact, the more I read, the more I realized that I just didn't put in enough work to really gauge how effective their products are. I plan go back to the drawing board...starting with the decontamination process. I'll order some of their 4" pads as well..figure it can't hurt to try them out as well. If after putting in the proper work, I still don't get results, then I'll test out some of the other products that you guys have mentioned.



Accumulator said:
CRUSHAH-Welcome to Autopia!



If using a PC, I'd recommend you switch to a 4" pad (with the appropriate size backing plate). IME (and I've been using PCs since around 1990) the larger pads create too much friction for effective, or at least efficient, correction.



Also, most products will need speed 6 to get much work done.



Unfortunately, the Porter Cable polisher is simply marginal at best for use on hard clear (I used mine on lots of hard-clear cars before getting something better). I consider the small pads a must.



And I'd be using Meguiar's M105, at least it offers a good amount of cut while still being PC-friendly, whichis something you have to watch for. Many aggressive products that you'll see in paint/body supply places will not work well with the PC; they don't break down properly.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the warm welcome! I do like the PC, but on very high speeds, the vibration is pretty unbearable.. felt like I was getting tazed or something LOL! I normally operate the machine around the 5 - 5.5 range, but as I mentioned earlier, I didn't nearly put in enough work. I'll do 2 and maybe even 3 passes before giving up and moving on to something else. The good thing is that I've received lots of advice about what to try next if my 2nd attempt with Adams doesn't work.



Thank you all for your insight!
 
I too use a PC and Adam's products. They're very weak and I was initially very disappointed. I added Tuf Buf 5" wool pads and Meg's 105 and this combo rocks the house. Get a cheap wool spur and a 5" backing plate off of amazon and you're good to go. 1 set with this combo is equal to about 4 sets of SSR and the green pad.



I love a lot of my Adam's products, but their pads and polishes leave a lot to be desired.
 
I thought about going with a wool pad, but was advised against it because my car is black. I've been looking at using Finish Kare's decontamination kit. A lot of guys are also claying while on step B making it easier to remove contaminents. There was mention of using Insect Remover pads instead of claying, but I haven't been able to find them. After decon, if anything is left, they report easier removal of any water spots or contaminents.
 
CRUSHAH- If you order the ABC direct from AutoInt/ValueGard you can get the bug pad(s) at the same time.



And yeah, I'd go easy with regard to using wool pads (especially) via PC on your car. Sure, I've done it, but I'd approach this stuff a bit more cautiously if I were you. M105 on a foam cutting pad can do pretty serious correction.



Oh, and I hear you on the PC's vibration. That's one more reason why I greatly prefer the Griot's polisher.
 
Accumulator said:
CRUSHAH- If you order the ABC direct from AutoInt/ValueGard you can get the bug pad(s) at the same time.



And yeah, I'd go easy with regard to using wool pads (especially) via PC on your car. Sure, I've done it, but I'd approach this stuff a bit more cautiously if I were you. M105 on a foam cutting pad can do pretty serious correction.



Oh, and I hear you on the PC's vibration. That's one more reason why I greatly prefer the Griot's polisher.
Click to expand...



I'll be ordering my decon kit from Valuegard so that I can get those pads...which will save my clay. I'm also going to jump-ship to the Griots polisher. I like the extra power which will be good for breaking down heavier cutting polishes if needed. I'm guessing I can use the orange pads I currently have along with the M105.



I'll keep my PC for lighter jobs and maintenance polishing.



Thanks guys!
 
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