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ski2 said:
And let's not forget the GG6 is made in China--I guess it's a knock off of the PC.
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Dear ski & Friends

Made in China doesn't necessarily mean garbage. I bet most of the "Made in America" signs are made in China.

I kid you not when I saw my son enjoying a lollipop from Halloween and inscribed on the stem was "Made in China."

Who cares where it's made so long as it's awesome? If I were in the market for a wife and found one who was good-looking and could suck a golfball through a garden hose, I wouldn't care if she was born in Utah or Ustinkistan.

(This industry has me so prejudiced against any towel manufacturer that isn't Korean, and that's ridiculous. Surely someone somewhere else is going to develop better and cheaper microfiber-making machines. "Oh, it says it was made in China. I bet it comes with briars on the tips of every fiber.")
 
Jaddie--you missed my point. There is considerable talk regarding Rupes knock offs but we forget the GG6 is made in China, has a good reputation and a lifetime warranty.
 
One thing to think of is, the GG6 IS a PC Chinese knockoff. However, it's definitely an improvement over a PC. Will the Rupes knock offs be an improvement? Mebbe... I doubt it.
 
ski2 said:
Jaddie--you missed my point. There is considerable talk regarding Rupes knock offs but we forget the GG6 is made in China, has a good reputation and a lifetime warranty.
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Dear ski

You're right on both counts.

Thanks for turning the light on.

— Jaddie
 
Jaddie said:
Made in China doesn't necessarily mean garbage. I bet most of the "Made in America" signs are made in China.
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This is definitely true. There are many substandard products but they have conspirator - the company in the USA that imports them and sells them. Junk has been made in the USA, it is just cheaper to make it in China.

Microfiber is an example where there is paint safe microfiber made in China and often with fabric made in Korea but labeled made in China.

As common in what we see from politicians and even detailers (often self promoting), never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.

I just saw a post that Chervon, a Chinese based multi-national, purchased Flex back in September.
 
Here's the specs on one of the knock offs:

880W Dual Action Polisher MS-DA900-L21
Unique Features:
Fast, Powerful Effective, Safe and Easy-to-Use !
Swirl-free, Professional Results with No Risk !
Easily Removes Swirl Marks and Scratches, and Improves Paint Gloss !
Ideal for Applying Polishes and Waxes, and Safe on All Paint Types !
Variable Speed Dial, On/Off Sliding Safety Switch !
Ergonomic Design and Comfortable Soft-Touch Head Cover !
Auto Shut-off Carbon Brushes, Low Noise and Low Vibration !
Sealed 100% Ball-Bearing Construction Provides Longer Life !

New Festures:
1.New Design
2.Big Orbit 21mm High Effective For Polishing
3.Soft Grip Head Cover and D Handle
4.Long Handle With Soft Grip,Easy to use
5.Easy Control Speed Dial


Specifications:
Rated Voltage: 110V - 240V AC Orbit Diameter Size: 21mm ( 7/8" )
Frequency: 60Hz / 50Hz Thread Size: 5/16"-24
Rated Current: 7.5Amp. Velcro Backing Plate Size: 150mm( 6" )
Rated Power: 880W Polishing Pad size: 150-160mm (6" - 6.5")
Variable Speed: 1,800 - 5,200 OPM Net Weight: 2.3kgs (4.8Lbs)
Power Cord: 4.0 meters Heavy-duty Cable.
Accessory:PU Velcro Backing Plate,D Handle,Wrench,Canvas bag,Carbon Brush.Manual

6-Speed Settings: Recommended speeds are as follows:
1:1800 OPM - 320OPM Waxing & Buffing
2:3200 OPM - 420OPM Polishing & Cleaning
3:4200 OPM - 480OPM Removing paint defects and Swirls
 
Knock off looks like they put a GG6 motor in a Rupes knock off body. While I'm sure it will be a strong machine, the smoothness likely will not be there.
 
Swanicyouth said:
Knock off looks like they put a GG6 motor in a Rupes knock off body. While I'm sure it will be a strong machine, the smoothness likely will not be there.
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Besides the capabilities of the Rupes to correct efficiently it's the smoothnees and lack of vibration that is most attactive to me.
And in the end that may be what distinguishes the Rupes from the knock offs.
 
the griots is 7amp 850w
this is 7.5amp 880w so its not the SAME motor
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qY9rXfn9wg]Test New DA - Polisher - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFORJAgONmk]Test 2 new DA Polisher - YouTube[/ame]
the ONLY thing that will stop me from selling my 15 and buying the knock off is if they dont offer a 5" backing plate. I have 0 6.5" pads and over 30 5.5" pads so I am not changing that.
I see they make this only has a 8mm obit but shares same design as the 21mm so maybe the backing plate on it will share
http://www.maxshinechina.com/product_show.asp?Bclassid=25&id=82
 
VaderGT said:
I have a 15 as well and I really like the machine but I feel its price as well is over priced. $275-299 would be more in what its actually worth especially since they put in a fairly weak 450w motor. For its price it should have had a more powerful motor so less chance of stalling out. When i see my rupes stall on some curves doing my car I feel totally let down I paid so much for a buffer and it cant even match the power of my GG6" and not stall on certain curves. if the Mini was $175 i would be all over it and thats about all its worth but $300 for a specalized 3" polisher that will get minimal use in the big picture on a car. It better spit out dollar bills as its running for that price. Id like to know what makes it worth 3x the price of the griots. Rupes is just the new flavor and everyone is on the bandwagon with them right now. I am sorry but nothing could convince me to pay that kind of money for a 3" polisher
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I'm not an electrican, nor am I even close to one. In fact, I hate electronics!!!!

That said, I have spoken to several motor suppliers in our industry, and the way they expressed watts to me is like this...

Watts is the draw, or the amount of power used. When talking about an engine in a car, this would be like the miles per gallon or fuel consumption. While a larger draw often mean more power, efficiencies also play a large amount in the output.

It is possible to have a 600 watt pull deliver LESS output then a 400 watt pull. Again, I don't know enough electronics to enter in the debate you reference on AGO, at all, but I did understand that part from some engineers in the tool industry.

Jsmooth said:
Not trying to start anything here, just wanting to help. So at the shop I watch my team stall rupes21's on curves all the time and some of it is the large throw, and some is technique. It's never a lack of power. I forced my self to do whole correction and probably had logged 200 hours on my 21 or 15 before I started to get the hang of it. I rarely will stall anymore and here's what I do(all machines are washer modded). I find if you adjust your speed while working it does the most justice. I always try to keep the lowest speed setting while maintaining rotation and a smooth feel. In curved area's this May be speed 5. And again not trying to start anything but I'd be willing to bet(having seen this day in and day out at the shop with my self and employees) your stall isn't lack of power but the way your tilting the pad on a curve and the throw of the machine is stoping it like it's designed to do. All that being said with 15 or 21 there are some area's that you just can't use these because the throw is to much. I believe the prices in these machines is really fair since they pay for then selfs in time saved(at my shop in a week) before rupes 1 steps took us 4 hours, we do them in 2 now with better results. I can be of any help ill happily talk to you on the phone or give pointers. Master that rupes and it'll pain you to have to pick up any other polisher even for a tight area(why I order the little ones!!)
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Here is the thing.. the spin of the pad is caused by the weight of the rotating assembly (pad/backing plate/bearings) as well as the speed and length of the stroke.

The Rupes motor in the 21 and 15 is plenty strong enough... Try as you might, you cannot bog the orbital action of the machine (it has enough power to whip that weight (pad/backing plate/arm) 21 mm away from its center at a rate of 4000 RPM. That is significant.

The reason that the pad stalls on corners is because of drag caused by the large pad, the friction and the size of the stroke. If a larger stroke creates more pad rotation, how does it also stall it? Much in the way that 6th gear will give you a higher top speed but less acceleration... The long stroke doesn't build momentum quite as quickly...

That said, if you get some bogging on the edge of a body panel, don't lift! In stead press down more. Engage and compress the pad so that all of that huge orbital motion will be transferred through the pad. You may even pick up a slow rotation by pressing harder.

VaderGT said:
Its the machine. I have done with my Griots and Rupes in same area where the Rupes will stall out and rotation stops the griots has zero problems with keeping its rotation going with no problem. The rupes is just a bit under powered for its price tag. I agree it does correct faster then my griots and its smoother to use I just feel a bit let down when i see it stall out for what i paid fully knowing my griots would power through this complex curve with no issue of rotation stopping.
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Pad rotation has nothing do to with power (well it does, but not in this case). The Rupes 21 will keep operating at its maximum of 4000 OPM until a LOT of pressure is applied (you will hear it audibly stall). You can get the same effect (usually easier) on the Griot's.

Neither machine controls pad rotation directly by the motor, each uses a free spinning bearing. It's just a characteristic of the large stroke and pad dynamics.

That said, the Rupes Duetto has less power than the Griot's and will easily out perform, at least in every circumstance that I have tried thus far.
 
Swanicyouth said:
One thing to think of is, the GG6 IS a PC Chinese knockoff. However, it's definitely an improvement over a PC. Will the Rupes knock offs be an improvement? Mebbe... I doubt it.
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You would have to define improvement. Improved power? Yes.

I can tell that the Porter Cable has a far better track record then any polisher on the market in terms of durability. When I am asked which polisher I prefer, between the three "normal" DA's, I make it a point to state each has their pluses and minus.

The Griot's is the most powerful.
The Meguiar's is the smoothest and most comfortable.
The Porter Cable outsells them by a considerable margin and is, by far, our least returned product. They just don't break.
 
Jaddie said:
Dear Todd & Friends

Those are strong words. I hope I remember them if anything happens to my Griot's.
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Please do. I am a huge fan of this polisher. It is really a Porter Cable on performance enhancing medicines... smoother and more powerful.
 
I will disagree on that one..I had a PC before my Griots and that thing was soo underpowered I wanted to throw it against the wall it frustrated me so bad with how the slightest amount of pressure will stop the movement of the pad. When I got my griots it was night and day it would keep spinning with pressure in places the PC just stopped on. I will take a lifetime warranty product over something that sells more of and doesnt break. I can careless if they can last along time if the POS thing doesnt have the nuts to polish out a curve on a body cause it stops rotation. I would recommend a griots to anyone over a PC anyday of the week. you get a 3year warranty with it so after 3years your SOL..Griots lifetime no matter what replaced for free. easy choice
 
id like to see a side by side of a Rupes and griots machine using same pads on same panel and see how much of a difference there is if any at all.
 
VaderGT said:
id like to see a side by side of a Rupes and griots machine using same pads on same panel and see how much of a difference there is if any at all.
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http://youtu.be/VTzQLeJOelg

5uvy5a3a.jpg
 
no thats the 6" I wanna see the mini 3" vs the griot 3"
I own the Griots and 15 so I know how they perform to each other.
I want to see what makes it worth $200 over price of griots over something so specialized. I mean the 3" will be used on such a small portion of working on the car. I am sure my Griots with the 2.75" backing plate is far superior but its a larger unit that doesnt fit into tighter spots like the griots 3"
 
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