Pollen ?The sky is falling, the sky is falling" Chicken Little

F

fishboy

New member
Well, I could not have predicted this. Just got rid of all the swirls, parked my car in the garage and woke up w/ paw prints. But it gets worse...

It looks like the cat had a first failed attempt at jumping on the hood, and slid down about eight inches, leaving 3 rows of parallel scratches. They are able to be felt when I rub my finger on them, but not too deep.



I have a black finish on a 6 month old Jeep, so the scratches are pretty obvious.



3M SMR?? Or anything else?? What works best for fine sratches from razor sharp claws...Nothing that I need a buffer for.

I did a search and nothing came up!

TIA

JTS
 
Did Bob explain to you that the detailer removed excessive clear and now your clear is down to the "sponge" level?



Once it has had over the .3 mil removed, it is very, very soft.



Which may be why the cat's claws got that deep that easy.



Ketch

:eek:
 
Fortunately, that first detailer only killed the passenger side of the car and hood. This kitty attempted from the driver side, where I think the clear is okay. I guess, its an all out battle against my car.



Umm, but more importantly, how should I manage my finish now. I just started using that Zaino stuff but not very much. I was sorta partial to it b/c its non-abrasive.



Ron, one more thing. On those paint/clear meters, how does that work?? What actual #'s should come up on the meter?? I think it measures all layers right? So, how do you extrapolate how much clear has been taken off....compare it to the other side???

Or where can I learn about it on the net??

TIA

Jeremy
 
As far as re-clearing the finish...Is that at all recommended?? I really dont want to do it. I heard its hard to do since you have to buff away all of the clear and then when you re-clear its hard to get a good paint-clear bond. Plus, how do you not buff the paint away. It seems like as humans make mistakes how could someone perfectly get all the clear off w/o hitting the paint. Thus, causing a patchy paint finish when done???

Thanks

Jeremy
 
As shown by both our photos as well as the PPG set on the site, the clear is applied at OEM level from 1.5 to 2 mil in thickness.



The application of additional clearcoat film build will only add an apperance of "depth" to the paint film, not protection.



If 6 mils of clear were to be applied, it would still only be dense in the very top .5 mil of the clear.



The measurements are by some sort of ultrasound.



The depth or film amount of the clear is only one issue.



The key is the "dense" portion of the clear.



It makes no difference as to how much film build (thickness) is applied as far as "protection" in concerned.



This is due to the nature of the "curing" or "crosslinking" of the clears resin system.



Only the very top of the clear is "dense", (as shown in the highly magnified cross section on the site), and in this "dense" portion is where the UV blockers are concentrated.



That dense portion is .5 mil (5/10th-1/2)on average. The manufacturers of the vehicles , with information provided by the paint suppliers, specify removal of clear may not exceed .3 mil (3/10th).



The use of the ETG gauge provides a reading of the total film build before removal by buffing or cutting of the clear.



Then, the operator will take measurements as he does the cutting process to insure he is staying within spec regarding the removal of the clear film build.



The polishing of the clear following the cutting process removes such a small amount that is almost unmeasureable.



That is if the operator is not allowing the heat generated to exceed the 115 F temperature. Allowing the clear while buffing/cutting to exceed that temperature softens the material, which may result in several negatives to take place in the clear.



Soft material comes off easier than dense material, the heat alters the binder/film former of the resin system as well.



This may result in a "cloudy" apperance later in the life span of the clear, and premature failure of the coating.



Ketch

:up
 
Okay, thanks for the info. As far as the actual #'s are concerned, what do you usually see?



The numbers that were coming up on my jeep were equal on both sides. Its been awhile but I beleive that they were around .45-.49. Does that sound right??? And that was equal on both sides. But I guess soeme areas are thicker than others.



JTS
 
There will be variances all around a vehicle, due to many reasons.



Some plants use a powdercoat surface primer, others apply a little more ecoat, some colors, like red base coats require additional mil build, other areas may have localized anti-chip primers applied. Like on edges of hoods, certain fender areas, etc



The plant may only give one pass of the clear applying atomizing bells to the sides and two to the horiztional surfaces.



And through it all, run a gauge over a panel, not lifting it, and watch the meter read in variances of a half a mil , more or less.



The key is the clear, and that is what must be a minimum on horizontals of 1.5 to 2 mil thick. The robots are not perfect, but much more precise than a human in applying the film build.



A plant in one area that builds a particular model may do that, use only one pass on the verticals side surfaces, but another plant building the same model 600 miles away may apply two coats to the verticals as well.



So, the" total" amount of film build has nothing to do with the important part, the clearcoat.



That is the point I have attempted to make many times, only the .5 mil of the clear is what all should be concerned with. Not total film build. Unless cutting the clear, then a set of mil readings should be taken in order to ascertain how much is being removed in the process. It is important to know what the start point is.



It is also important that the technican have training that included the ability to spot previous repairs, identify them and know the correct process to proceed with.



That is why our PrepExcellence Course is so far ahead of the "How to detail a car" schools around the world. At the PrepExcellence school, the first day is all about paint, what makes it, what it was, what it is now, what is coming. We do the same regarding interior parts, seats, wheels, etc.



It is quite involved, however, unfortunately so many "detailers" believe that since they can run buffer, get some gloss on a paint job, get some stains out and spray a fu-fu fragrance, grease up the tires, they have no need of professional training and the ability to accurately diagnois conditions.



They have no real knowledge of paint, some of the most important information regarding it and it's chemistry. such as.



It must be kept clean of acids and other enviormental contaminates, for if it damaged by them, there is little recourse other than refinish.



They don't know how to do this, they just hit it with a strong detergent or clay it and think the problem is corrected.



Ketch



:eek:
 
My wife's 4Runner is dark blue and the paint on the hood was very much in bad shape. I also had "cat scratches".



I bought a Porter Cable "7424" and used the white pad that came with it. I used Meguire's #2 Fine-cut cleaner and followed it with #9 Swirl Remover. Then a pass with some Meguire's Show Car Glaze. The scratches are 100% gone and the finish is very uniform over the entire hood.



One note: before starting I too could feel the scratches with my finger nail. But everything has worked well. Hood looks brand new!
 
I have 2 cats, or should I say my wife does. The cats liked to sit on the hood of my truck when in the garage, fortunately no real serious scratches. I tried everything to try and prevent this problem, moth balls, stuff from the pet store and even tried to keep the garage door closed, but if the door was open for 5 minutes guess what, paw prints all over.

At a last resort I ordered a product from Coleman called the Electronic Yard/Garden Protector. It can run off 110 or 4 C cell batteries. It has an electronic eye that activates a high frequency when motion is detected. It is suppose to work indoors or out on all kinds of pests from deer, dogs, cats, mice and insects.

I have heard that these things are not suppose to work but ever sense I started using it, I have not had one paw print on my hood.

I purchased the product from Northern Tool & Equipment Co.

The cost was $49.95, I received free shipping.

I know this does not solve your immediate problem but may prevent the problem from occurring again.

John:)
 
Pollen [: Micro gametophytes - pollen grains]

In the US, people often mistakenly blame the conspicuous goldenrod flower for allergies. Since this plant is entomophilous (its pollen is dispersed by animals), its heavy, sticky pollen does not become independently airborne. Most late summer and fall pollen allergies are probably caused by ragweed, a widespread anemophilous plant.

The yellow fines to coarse powders you see in the air is made up of small sperm cells from blooming plants and are one of the most common allergy triggers. The pollen from trees are the main concern, vehicles get hit with pollen laced trees that include: oak, western red cedar, elm, birch, ash, hickory, polar, sycamore, maple, cypress and walnut (which also leaves an oily residue). Pollen grains of pines, firs, and spruces are winged.

Pollen must be strong to protect the male gametes on their journey. The outer wall of the pollen grain, called the exine, is composed of a very unusual substance called sporopollenin which is very tough. The inner layer is made of cellulose and is similar in construction to an ordinary plant cell wall; pollen will literally ?wear? away wax or polymer sealants.

Pollen isn't removed by air friction as you drive because it adheres to a surface with microscopic barbs (not static) that can attach to even a very slightly uneven surface. Carnauba wax molecules, which are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface. They align themselves to form an egg-grate type structure (with their long axis vertical) this is what gives it depth. This mesh-like structure allows the exine or barbs of the pollen to gain a hold and adheres to a natural wax better than a synthetic polymer.

As well as being allergic pollen is also very abrasive (due to its exine or barbs) and slightly acidic dust, especially when mixed with moisture and should therefore be removed from paint surfaces as soon as is practicable.

Heavy Dust

To remove heavy pollen dust (do not use a California Duster as the pollen exine will cause surface marring) instead use Optimum No Rinse (ONR) a quick ?wash?; formulated with surfactants to keep dirt in suspension, avoiding surface contact, it also provides surface lubrication, thereby avoiding surface marring. As soon as is practical, thoroughly rinse the vehicle with a hose and clean water to ensure all the pollen is removed.

Light Surface Dust

To remove light, dry surface pollen dust or pollen without causing scratches by applying very little surface pressure, dusting with long strokes in one direction only, use a product that contains a surfactant; this will lessen surface scratching as they ?lift? dust etc into the media used avoiding surface friction (use a solution of Optimum no-rinse (ONR) diluted 1:20 / distilled water in a fine mist spray bottle) Don?t use on a hot paint surface (soon after driving) as this will cause streaking

Use a long nap micro fibre towel to ensure the dust lifted from the paint surface will remain in the nap and not on the towel surface thereby causing surface marring. Shake the towel occasionally to ensure any particles picked up will drop out rather than come to the surface while you?re using it.

Notes: Dust build-up-with low humidity conditions and friction on the paint surface will cause static electricity (this is exacerbated by the use of polyester (nylon) Micro fibre) resulting in fine dust attraction to the paint surface.

It important to use this methodology only for the removal of dry surface dust, don?t use if surface has condensation or dew, or if the vehicle has oily road film, road tar, damp pollen or dust, etc in these instances the vehicle surface should be subjected to a conventional or Optimum No-Rinse (ONR) car washing process

No wax or polymer sealant can provide a permanent shield against: Micro gametophytes (pollen) an acrylic polymer like Klasse or Jeff Werkstat resist acid attack better than most. Collinite 845 Insulator Wax is probably the most durable Carnauba wax product and / or Finish Kare FK425 (this product also contains an anti-static)

Detailing Wax Spray

Are very good sacrificial protections; but these may only provide enough of a barrier to enable it to be removed quickly before causing too much acidic damage to the paint film surface
 
Thanks, TOGWT, for the information. The pollen has started here and it's nasty stuff.

Look at a magnified pic of a "micro gametophyte" and it looks like some Medieval weapon.
 
Puckman said:
Thanks, TOGWT, for the information. The pollen has started here and it's nasty stuff.

Look at a magnified pic of a "micro gametophyte" and it looks like some Medieval weapon.
Click to expand...

There is a magnified photo on Wikipedia that show what the pollen looks like.

That's my point about it being something that has barbs (exine) many detailers mistakenly try to cure the problem with an anti-static QD
 
I suggest anyone interested in allergies to visit an allergist and not rely on internet information to self-diagnose allergies.

I had the full profile test (lots of pricks on the skin) and was told I was allergic (reacted positively) to fescue (a common grass -- and in my yard), cats, and dust mites.
 
The tip on not to use my California duster was worth this read....excellent info and thanks for taking the time to post....
 
tlc0706 said:
The tip on not to use my California duster was worth this read....excellent info and thanks for taking the time to post....
Click to expand...

Glad to be of some help. Knowledge unshared is experience wasted
 
[I suggest anyone interested in allergies to visit an allergist and not rely on internet information to self-diagnose allergies.]

I don?t see the purpose behind this comment or perhaps I'm missing something? The subject of this post and information supplied is a How-To on pollen and its removal. This is TID not WebMD

I hope others will get more from this information than you appear to have cleaned from it
 
Good post TOGWT, thank you!:wizard:

Everything that's outdoors in Nashville is covered in yellow dust right now, there's tons of that stuff in the air. I washed my truck a couple days ago, it lives in the garage at night, and now it's covered again with a yellow haze just from driving around town for a day and a half.

Luckily I don't suffer from allergies but some of my friends have been sneezing for a week straight... yuck!
 
Do you suggest changing my cabin air filter to combat pollen? I have really bad allergies and I can't find anything on the web to help with this.
 
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