polishing comparisons?

My new favourite combo is 3M PI III Machine Glaze and LC orange VC cutting pad (LC pad from Autopia Car Care).



Here's the results on front quarter panel scratches and swirls (including a defect in the base coat which can't come out).



BEFORE:



17477sm_hpim2813.jpg




AFTER:



17477sm_hpim2817.jpg




Two passes (no fillers, no dusting) and it's ready to be topped, with no further finishing polish. Perfect combo! :bow
 
nice work! it looks like you have the same angle for the picture. all to often the angle changes in the after picture and i sometimes wonder why. but not this time. GOOD JOB!!!

i too, use menzerna products. they have brought terrific results. next year when i am able to access a camera i will show an extreme car that is in such bad shape that the owner does not care what i do. so it will be fun to experiment and see if the full line of menzerna products will be up to the test.
 
cwcad said:
nice work! it looks like you have the same angle for the picture. all to often the angle changes in the after picture and i sometimes wonder why. but not this time. GOOD JOB!!!
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Thanks, cwcad. I set up the camera on a tripod, otherwise it's hard to evaluate the befor and after condition in photos. I'm going to use these in an album for our detailing business.



i too, use menzerna products. they have brought terrific results. next year when i am able to access a camera i will show an extreme car that is in such bad shape that the owner does not care what i do. so it will be fun to experiment and see if the full line of menzerna products will be up to the test.
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You might want to also try the 3M/LC combo that I used on your upcoming job. Up until then I thought Menzerna was IT, but now I'm too thrilled with this combo to want to try something else.



I mean, one polish, one pad, defects gone, no fillers, no dusting, no finishing polish required, go to last step product! What more can you ask for? :cool:
 
I just got done (yesterday) doing a 1994 Audi and it was badly swirled with many small scratches. 85% of the swirls came out and a lot of the small scratches still remained. I used a DAS Sonus Orange Cutting Pad with Menzerna IP, then followed with Menzerna FPII.



Any suggestions?

Carl
 
The Sonus orange pad seems to have about the same cut as the LC VC orange pad (maybe a bit less).



Have you tried 3M PI III MG? On the most recent Jag (above) it was about twice as effective as IP, which I was using happily. IP took twice as many passes as the MG to achieve the same results. The pics tell the story.



The XK120 had some deeper scratches...I was shocked at how quickly they would come out with my new combo! I had to add more MG to the scratch and work it about 30 seconds. If it dried I'd spray some QD to reactivate the polish and keep going on it if it needed it. Mind you, it had plenty of clearcoat to work with, so be careful of that on your project. I was fortunate.



As you can see, it doesn't even need a finishing polish. (And again, I have to emphasize, no fillers).



Keep in mind that the colour of the Jag is conducive to a single step polishing compound. The previous dark blue Jag would've required a finishing polish, like FP.



What colour is the Audi?
 
Alfisti, Your work looks great! Do you use PI-IIIRC at all? also this was using PC correct?



Would there be any benifits finishing with PI-IIIMG instead of #80? I know it has filler, but it also takes care of marring.



Would finishing with either one make a difference if you wanted to use a sealant or wax as your next step?
 
cheapshot said:
Accumulator How did you like FPII? Also just to make sure you do use the PI-IIRC/PI-IIIMG with PC correct? What pads do you use?
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I still have an old bottle of FPI, havent' tried the FPII yet. Hardly ever use the FP at all, between 3M PI-III MG and 1Z MP (pro version) I really don't need it. But the PFI works fine as a final polish (no pun intended), just too mild to really accomplish much.



Yeah, I use the 3M PI-III RC (05933) and MG (05937) by PC, Cyclo, and rotary. And even by hand. Great stuff by *any* of those application methods. I honestly think most people could get by just fine with only those two polishes.



Alfisti- Interesting about the Menzerna IP vs. PI-III MG. Wouldn't have expected that. Guess I don't need to try the IP afterall.



Nice job on the qtr panel, though I can't help thinking that it must be sorta-soft paint on there. I have to work everything that marred up (except my Jag) with either the RC or more passes with the MG.
 
cheapshot said:
Would there be any benifits finishing with PI-IIIMG instead of #80? I know it has filler, but it also takes care of marring.



Would finishing with either one make a difference if you wanted to use a sealant or wax as your next step?
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If using a sealant, I use the PI-III stuff; I use the #80 if following with a wax. But note that others use the #80 before most anything. I'm sorta getting away from the #80, all the trade-secret oils it leaves...I dunno, if I want stuff left behind I'd rather use 1Z polishes. I keep getting back to only using the PI-III or 1Z products.
 
It was a dark blue Audi. Pretty badly scratched. I spread the product on the trunk to start out with PC off, then turned it on to 3, moved over the area, then took it up to 5, worked it in for 45 seconds, then took it to 6 and worked it in for about 2 minutes, brought it back down to 5 to finish it off. This was my technique after working it at 5 wasn't cutting it.



I also have the new Sonus SFX system to try. My pads weren't here so I had to use Menzerna when I wanted to try Sonus, but next time I'll see what kind of cutting action the Sonus stuff has.



Carl
 
how does PI-III finish off compared to #83?, I have noticed that #83 leaves a bit of marring when used with pc. I know some will argue and say they went to there LSP. But I have found it need to be followed, especially on Black.



Is PI- IIIMG, more abrasive then #80? How does it finish?



Accumulator the only thing thats not to like is you have to buy PI-III Line in quarts. But if it turns out I like them I'm pretty much set for awhile.
 
Accumulator, I apologize, I didn't express myself properly. When I tried P-I IIIMG I also starting using a different pad on this car - the LC orange light cutting pad. I haven't tried it with LC orange and IP on this car, so don't be discouraged from trying it yourself. I found IP excellent on previous jobs, just not as quick as how the P-I IIIMG worked on this car. But as you pointed out, it might be a soft paint on this Jag and I haven't tried 3M on any previous job as I just received it. Tomorrow I'll try the IP/LC orange pad combo to make a fair comparison, and let you know how it goes. What pad do you use with the MG for this kind of marring?



cheapshot, no, I haven't tried P-I IIIRC. And yes, I was using a PC.I can't make a comparison with #80 as I haven't tried it (yet)? My only negative comment would be the fillers it contains, and its only negative if that's undesirable to you. For some that's a postive because it may make a job quicker without having to get it all perfect on the surface. It depends what you want to achieve and how much they're paying. Also, some sealants need a virgin surface to adhere to, and so, no fillers.



Carl, dark blue is a PITA. Shows everything! Have you tries spraying a bit of QD or DW on the pad with the IP...it tends to increase the cutting ability (and a bit more splatter).
 
cheapshot, here's an abrasiveness list thread that might help answer some of your questions. It's subjective, of course, not scientific. I don't agree with some of it but it's a good guide. :up



http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36208&highlight=glazes+sorted+by+cutting+ability



As to how MG finishes up, look at my photos. Didn't require a finishing polish.



#83 is a different animal. It will always require a follow-up finishing polish.



When I use it with a Megs maroon cutting pad, it always dulls-down the finish to a point where I can't bring it back (to perfecr mirror-like finish) with anything (and I've been warned about this by another member...he was dead right)! Its weird because I can restore scratches, swirls, marring of any sort...but when I use the maroon cutting pad, its over...so I don't use it!



If I use #83 with another light-cutting pad, it works well but still requires a finishing step (#80, FP, 3M SMR, 1z MP, etc).
 
cheapshot said:
how does PI-III finish off compared to #83?

Is PI- IIIMG, more abrasive then #80? How does it finish?



Accumulator the only thing thats not to like is you have to buy PI-III Line in quarts.
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Which PI-III are you comparing to the #83? The PI-III RC is similar but in *my* experience leaves a nicer finish than the #83. Still probably will need to follow up, but not always, depends on the paint and how you work the RC.



I'd put the #80 as being a bit more aggressive than the MG, but they're in the same general class.



You can get the PI-III Mg in pints, pn 39012 IIRC.



Originally posted by Alfisti

Accumulator, I apologize, I didn't express myself properly. When I tried P-I IIIMG I also starting using a different pad on this car - the LC orange light cutting pad. I haven't tried it with LC orange and IP on this car, so don't be discouraged from trying it yourself. I found IP excellent on previous jobs, just not as quick as how the P-I IIIMG worked on this car. But as you pointed out, it might be a soft paint on this Jag and I haven't tried 3M on any previous job as I just received it. Tomorrow I'll try the IP/LC orange pad combo to make a fair comparison, and let you know how it goes. What pad do you use with the MG for this kind of marring?
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I use the MG with 1)rotary, lake polishing pad, 2) Cyclo, green Cyclo polishing pad, 3)Cyclo white Lake polishing pad, 4)PC, lake polishing pad, 5)PC, Griot's orange polishing pad, 6)PC Meg's polishing pad. So I have *not* tried it with the orange but you can tell I use it a lot with the pads I do have. The added cut of the orange pad probably makes all the difference.



Rather than use a more aggressive pad with the MG, I just switch to the PI-III RC (which leaves a rather nice finish, despite its name "rubbing compound") for the tough stuff. Not a better approach, just different.



Funny how older Jags seem to have soft paint so often (both original *and* repaints), huh? The oe lacquer is sorta enjoyable to work compared with today's b/c paints but you gotta watch the temptation to work it "just a little more..." ;)
 
Carl, dark blue is a PITA. Shows everything! Have you tries spraying a bit of QD or DW on the pad with the IP...it tends to increase the cutting ability (and a bit more splatter).
Click to expand...



Yes, I spritzed it with Meguiar's Quik Detail....two sprays. I guess I'll just have to try something else (SFX System) or let it be.....:nixweiss



Carl
 
Alfisti, thanks for link to the abrasive list!



Accumulator, Yes I was referring to PI-IIRC, and thanks for your replys. Accumulator you have helped me so much since I have become a member here at atopia. Thank You :xyxthumbs
 
Accumulator said:
I use the MG with 1)rotary, lake polishing pad, 2) Cyclo, green Cyclo polishing pad, 3)Cyclo white Lake polishing pad, 4)PC, lake polishing pad, 5)PC, Griot's orange polishing pad, 6)PC Meg's polishing pad. So I have *not* tried it with the orange but you can tell I use it a lot with the pads I do have. The added cut of the orange pad probably makes all the difference.



Rather than use a more aggressive pad with the MG, I just switch to the PI-III RC (which leaves a rather nice finish, despite its name "rubbing compound") for the tough stuff. Not a better approach, just different.
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Here's a comparison shot with Menzerna IP and the LC Orange VC pad.



Before:



17477sm_hpim2835-med.jpg




After:



17477sm_hpim2838-med.jpg




Pretty much the same results as the PI-III MG.



I think you should try the Menzerna duo. I actually discovered with this exercise that IP is easier to use (for me) than the MG.



IP has a bit more cut, and thus works a bit faster, and you can work it longer without drying or gumming. It has virtually no learning curve...it's almost like you can't misuse it. (The only negative compared to MG is that it dusts a bit more). I ended up having a few problems with MG, and even more trouble with FI-II Machine Polish (MP) - maybe you (or anyone) can help me.



I found that PI-III MG dried a bit too quick, and when I used more product it gummed up. The problem was even worse with FI-II MP. It really gummed up too easily and I simply coudn't work it very long. I tried less product...more product...spraying DW on it...nothing! I'm still learning the 3M products so I'm not willing to give up yet, but, can anyone give me advice?



Maybe I should just try PI-III RC and be done with it!
 
Alfisti said:


I found that PI-III MG dried a bit too quick, and when I used more product it gummed up. The problem was even worse with FI-II MP. It really gummed up too easily and I simply coudn't work it very long. I tried less product...more product...spraying DW on it...nothing! I'm still learning the 3M products so I'm not willing to give up yet, but, can anyone give me advice?
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My results were opposite of yours. I find Menzerna IP dries up very quickly and I had to wet the pad and/or the surface of the paint to work the IP longer. I find FI-II takes a long time to dry up and I can work it for a long time. I also find FI-II to be much more abrasive than IP. IP IMO isn't that much more abrasive than Perfect It III Mchine Glaze.
 
Isn't it interesting how different people have such different expereinces with the same products?



Bill D- Well, I *think* they're Lake pads. They look like it. Can't remember where I got them, but I'd guess CMA. I have so much too much stuff that I run across things like this all the time :rolleyes:



Alfisti- I hear you on the IP, but I'm sorta pursuing a "don't fix it if it isn't broken" approach these days :D With the literally dozens of products I have around I'm finding it best to just work with a few and know them well. And two that I use all the time are the PI-III RC and MG.



I don't try to do much correction with the MG (except on the XJS with its soft paint). Probably don't do as much as I could if I'd use different pads, but then again most of my vehicles have pretty hard clear. I use the RC for almost *all* correction, using a cutting pad or maybe just a polishing pad (rotary). Then I use the MG for a follow-up to remove the (very slight) micromarring from the RC. I have used the MG with the rotary though, and it does some pretty impressive correction, even on hard Audi clear. FWIW it doidn't gum up on me even with the rotary.



I think the reason your MG dries up on you is that you're trying to do too much with it. The Cyclo tends to flash products pretty fast (too fast for AIO, for instance), but I never have any problems with the MG/Cyclo combo. But IMO it's because I don't use much product and I only work it as long as I have to to break it down. Can't really explain how long that is...just something I developed a feel for (sorry for the Yoda-answer :o ). I never dampen the pad or do anything else "special". I just put the product on the pad, work it until I feel it's broken down, and wipe it off with a MF.



On rare occasions I've had trouble removing the MG residue. This was sorta like the gumming up, and as best I could tell it came from polishing through leftover LSP (thickly layered KSG). In those cases I use AIO on the MG residue and it takes it off with no problems like micromarring. Sorta spooked me the first time though, it was *really* tenacious- Pinnacle's PCL, VM, and Autoglym's SRP wouldn't get it off, nor would plain old elbow grease with a QD. Good thing I had the AIO. Hasn't ever happened when I use the RC first.



I quit using the FI-II a long time ago, as soon as I tried the PI-III RC.



Maybe try the PI-III RC (05933). It breaks down well and the little marring it leaves is easily removed by the MG. But if you're getting the results from the Menzerna, it's not like you have to master a whole raft of products ;)
 
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